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[Warheads/explosion mechanics] should be changed or reverted to how it was in SE1

Cpt_Mechu shared this feedback ago

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This is a repost of my comment on another feedback post, but with appropriate title, images and additional explanation. If the other topic gets enough votes i'll remove this one, otherwise its cool.

link: https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/54951-warheads-too-powerful

Explosions / warheads behave differently in SE2 compared to SE1 and i believe that SE1 has a better system game play wise.

In SE2 warheads create AOE effect. Damage cannot be stopped, only distance matters (dmg fall off). Because of that 2.5 m warhead can destroy around 12.5m of heavy armor (in length) or if you surround it completely, 12.5m of heavy armor in any direction (around 500 to 1000 blocks).

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(IMG 1 and 2 images showcase effective range of SE2 2.5m warhead against heavy armor)

In SE1 warheads don't have the same property, as damage can be blocked by armor. Even one layer of heavy armor is (barely) enough to dampen most damage from a large grid warhead.

This is because as stated by wiki.gg on explosions: "The explosion is volumetric for these and loses damage as it destroys blocks to get past until it runs out of damage."

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IMG 7 and 8 (taken in SE1) show that damage can be stopped by armor, and effectively too.

Why change or revert?

- Explosions being treated as AOE makes them overpowered, a warhead in SE1 might destroy anywhere from several blocks to dozens of heavy armor blocks (depends on circumstances), in SE2 it can be hundreds.

- Reducing damage will probably not solve the issue, warheads will either be too weak or used to damage more fragile / critical inside components of ships like conveyors, storage blocks, hydrogen tanks, cockpits & players, (due to damage just phasing through blocks)

- reactors, hydrogen tanks, other explosive blocks and important delicate blocks are bigger liabilities then before, which may develop unwanted meta both for pvp and pve. (like turning off reactors during battle so they don't explode???) b04da4fd4b7185c60480a51f3816dbca

Picture 3, 4, 5, 6 show that armor blocks will not defend your ship from internal explosions, ( yellow block is heavy armor, it does let damage through, resulting in the same damages on both sides)

- Only counter-play in terms of ARMOR is spaced armor.

Does every explosion need to be changed? (opinionSSSSSS)

Some explosions could stay as simple AOE (for reasons like optimization) (ex.: any rocket launchers), but damage fall off should maybe be calculated based on how much block hp is in between origin of explosion and max range of the explosion. ( the more hp, the faster the fall off)

This is all, thanks for reading through all that

~ a fellow engineer

I like this feedback

Replies (2)

Oselotti ●

I think every explosions should be volumetric and there could be different shape of explosions like shaped charges missiles and sphere shaped warheads. Also warheads should be stronger in athmosphere (or weaker in space) because explosions in vacuum don't have the shockwave but only radiation, heat and shrapnell.

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Semtex ●

The volume of the area affected by an explosion is proportional to the mass of the charge.

An explosion of 1 kg of TNT (~4 MJ) is roughly equivalent to the kinetic energy of an 8-kg projectile traveling at a speed of 1,000 m/s or 14.5-kg projectile at 750 m/s

An 8-kg projectile corresponds roughly to a 75–85 mm caliber. Such a projectile contains an explosive charge of about 1-1,5-2 kg of TNT.

An 14.5-kg projectile corresponds roughly to a 105 mm caliber. Such a projectile contains an explosive charge of about 2-3,5 kg of TNT.

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Semtex ●

In an atmospheric explosion, two distinct regions of the explosion’s effects can be clearly distinguished:

1) the fireball, which consists primarily of the explosion products of the explosive. Its maximum diameter is determined approximately by the pressure conditions on its surface, when the pressure of the explosion products equals the air pressure displaced by the products from the explosion volume (the pressure of the explosion products decreases as the radius of the fireball increases, while the air pressure on the surface of the fireball increases—this process occurs at hypersonic speeds 5->3 km/s)

2) When the expansion of the fireball stops, the shock wave (with a typical speed of ~1.5–2 km/s) separates from the “surface” of the fireball and travels through the air. The shock wave has a reliably lethal effect up to a distance of roughly three to six times the radius of the fireball.

It is essential to note that these processes occur in the atmosphere—not in a vacuum. In a vacuum, the expansion of the explosion’s products would continue unabated.

However, at the same time, the density of the gases forming the shock wave would decrease very rapidly.

I do not have a precise idea of the distance at which the dynamic effect of the explosion’s products would equal the dynamic effect of the shock wave in the atmosphere. But we probably won’t be far off if we estimate it to be two to three times the radius of the fireball in the atmosphere—that is, in a vacuum, the explosion will affect an area about half the radius of the area affected in the atmosphere.

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Semtex ●

From the perspective of the experiments conducted by Cpt_Mechu, an important question arises:

How much explosive did the charge placed in the test wall contain?

If we do not know the actual mass of the explosive, we can assume that the explosive accounts for 50% of the block mass—this is a typical ratio for standard high-explosive aerial bombs from World War II. In artillery shells, the explosive accounts for roughly 20% of the mass.

To put it very simply, we can assume that 1 kg of TNT creates a fireball with a volume of 1 cubic meter in the atmosphere.

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Cpt_Mechu ●

Also damage fall off seems to be somewhat low, or maybe initial damage is very high and only after enough distance it starts to decrease to where difference in block hp starts to matter.

This means that Heavy armor is much weaker in SE2 than SE1

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SE2 ^^^

VS - - - - - - Explosion on flat surface (yellow is light armor, red is heavy armor)

SE1 v v v

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