Submit Feedback

Small grid armor blocks are broken!

Forest shared this bug ago

Solved

While testing several combat designs I found that unarmored ones had much greater survivability under fire than armored. The difference is really dramatic, small grid crafts with armor blocks explodes instantly, while crafts with exposed components usually withstand several hits without a problem. I investigated this by testing all small grid armour blocks in creative mode and found following two problems:

1. All small grid blocks with slopes or half-blocks instantly destroys any underlying functional block if a single gatling bullet hit them. This happens only when a bullet hits part of the block that is half or less blocks away from underlying functional component.

Example: small grid battery normally withstand 15 gatling hits before disabled and 25 before being destroyed. But covered with half-block armor instantly explodes from a single hit.

This happens not when armor block is destroyed but on any hit.

Best way to reproduce and see it:

Place 1x1 heavy armor slope on the battery. Then hit it with a single gatling shot. Heavy armor 1x1 slope takes 3 shots to be destroyed. But if the shot aimed in part of the slope that is closer to the battery it will explode, while armor block is only damaged. If the shot will be aimed in part of the slope further from the battery, only the armor will be damaged. This happens with all sloped blocks including corner or inverted corner, or all 2x1 blocks.

2. All 2x1 small grid armor slopes and corners as well as half-blocks, both light and heavy seems to have same almost non-existing durability, and evaporates several blocks per gatling hit. It is most obvious with heavy armor 2x1 slopes that seems to have same durability as light armor and less durable than 1x1 light armor slopes, despite components needed. By itself it won't cause the destruction of underlying functional block however, only when the bullet hits in the point that half or less blocks away from it.

Currently, only full armor blocks work properly on small grids, and 1x1 slopes when placed without connection with non-armor blocks.

It is very frustrating and discourage any interesting armour designs of small grids.

I have the same bug

Replies (8)

Pyrald Lystent ●

I reported this 5 months ago, but alas it didn't take priority.https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/weak-armor-block-destroy-nearby-blocks-too-often-when-shot

URL

Forest ●

Yea, I voted your problem up too.

But it seems that what you reported is one case of more general problem. Well, probably two problems. One - durability of all 2x1 small grid blocks including heavy is messed up. And two - mysterious explosions not on block destruction, but on hit. Which is hard to see because messed up durability, lead to instant evaporation of most blocks from a single hit.

But becomes clear with 1x1 slope or inverted corner, when an explosion of non-armor blocks may happen depending on what specific part of block bullet hits. And they are not being destroyed from this hit, even when explosion occurs.

URL

Pyrald Lystent ●

Aye, the base durability of the blocks makes the heavy armor next to useless to begin with. As for the other problem, I find it more as a multiplied dmg carryover.

Personally, I find it hard to have an issue with the first of the two because the second is just blowing everything up.

URL

Usurpine Susanti ●

Deformation of heavy armor blocks should eat up a large portion of the destructiv energy.

URL

Scya ●

After one and half year pause I came back to SE. Im glad, I dont have to write whole new bug report, but sad, its pinned here for more than year already.

URL

Keen Support ●

Hello,

Thank you for reporting this issue. I was able to reproduce it. It will be forwarded to our dev team for investigation.

We will change the status of this topic and inform you about its progress here as soon as we have new information.

Kind Regards

Keen Software House: QA Department

URL

Kateřina Červená ●

Hello, everyone!

Do you still experience this issue on the latest version 197.075?

Thank you.

Kind Regards

Keen Software House: QA Department

URL

Pyrald Lystent ●

I recently did a test where I shot a gatling gun (one time) at a small grid light armor block covering a large small grid hydrogen tank. In the past, both the armor block and the tank would explode from the one bullet. Now, just the armor gets blown up while the tank remained unharmed.

I think it is fixed; thankyou!

URL

Pyrald Lystent ●

Did another test (small grid armed warhead in a light armor shell). Warhead doesn't detonate probably because the kinetic destruction of the armor negates it. So I am unsure that it is fixed for kinetic damage.

URL

Dementiurge ●

This still occurs in 1.198.033

Image included of the behavior. A single gatling bullet can make an entire small grid hydrogen tank disappear (not even leaving scrap) by hitting a light armor block.

Files:

URL

Laura K ●

Hello, Dementiurge!

Thank you for updating us and letting us know this is still an issue. I have been looking at the original comment and can't quite seem to replicate it. I'm a little confused on a mention here of it being unfixed. Is this currently behaving in the same way the original post mentions or, is it not quite the same? Would it be possible for you to provide a save that reliably shows the issue? I see from your image that you are demonstrating a hydrogen tank which is a different test scenario to the original thread. It would be a huge help if you could supply something with some reliable steps in to help :) (Or anyone else with a recent save)

You can access your save files by typing %appdata% into your Windows search bar and you will be redirected to the hidden Roaming folder. After that just follow: \Roaming\SpaceEngineers\Saves. There should be a folder with your SteamID and your saves.
Please zip the file and attach it here. If you are having difficulty attaching files you can optionally use Google Drive. When sharing a google drive link please make sure it is set to be downloadable by anyone with the link.

Kind Regards

Laura, QA Department

URL

Spencil Splodge ●

Hi - I have also reproduced this in 1.198.033 on Xbox Series X. Simply place a small grid light or heavy armour block on any small grid functional block, such as a small grid hydrogen tank (so any block that doesn't normally deform), and shoot the armour block with a small grid gatling turret. The functional block explodes the moment an armour block deforms into it i.e. with as little as a single bullet. Please see my comments below with full details and a mod I made to correct it at the time. Thanks.

URL

Laura K ●

Hello Spencil!

Thank you for mentioning this, I will be testing this on PC but I will use your reproduction steps to see if this still stands for PC.

Kind Regards

Laura, QA Department

URL

Spencil Splodge ●

No problem, Laura... just to re-iterate it in a cleaner way...

Background

Small grid functional blocks take a certain number of hits from a gatling turret (or missles) before they are non-functional and eventually destroyed. For the purpose of describing steps, I'll focus on a small grid large thruster which will normally take 40+ hits from a small grid gatling turret before being completely destroyed. However, this issue applies to many, if not all, functional blocks and appears to be associated with their inability to deform when damaged to whether they have the issue.

Environment

Any location - Earth, Mars, Space etc.
Place a small grid large thruster on a small grid landing gear that is attached to something for stability.
On a separate grid, place a working small grid gatling turret (with battery, control seat etc as needed to use it) about 50+ meters away so that it has some range to cover and aiming is easier.

Control

Shoot the small grid large thruster with the small grid gatling turret, one bullet at a time, and count the number of hits. Currently, you should expect around 40+ hits before it is completely destroyed.

Steps to Reproduce

Add small grid light or heavy armour directly to the small grid large thruster.
Shoot the armour one bullet at a time.

Expected Behaviour

The number of bullets required to destroy the thruster when it is armoured and the bullets hit only the armour should be more than when it is not armoured. Based on the control experiment, this should be more than 40+ hits to destroy the thruster.

Actual Behaviour

It only takes 1-3 bullets hitting the armour before the thruster underneath it is completely destroyed. This renders armour counter productive.

If you need anything else, just ping me a message.

URL

Dementiurge ●

The original thread mentioned "any functional block". I used the hydrogen tank as an example since it is the most durable small grid block I am aware of and demonstrates behavior that is obviously not expected.

I am attaching a PC world save that reproduces this bug for multiple blocks and a couple for which it does not.

Files:

URL

Frigidman ●

"It only takes 1-3 bullets hitting the armour before the thruster underneath it is completely destroyed. This renders armour counter productive."

Exactly. We are completely unable to make any kind of hydrogen attack ship because of how quickly all the tanks 'pop' due to trying to armor them. Its actually better right now to make completely naked ships as they are more durable than ships with armor blocks.

This bug needs an elevation in priorities, especially given all this hubub about "Warfare" updates.

URL

Spencil Splodge ●

Hi all,

<<Firstly, Space Engineers is one of the greatest games I have ever played and has spawned a huge interest in gaming I haven't had in a while - so thanks very much for this awesome game and the continued improvements for PC and Xbox alike. I'm just getting into mods and scripting now - endless fun!>>

So, in terms of this issue, this is still a big issue for me with the latest build v1.197.181 on Xbox One X and Xbox Series X either locally or connecting to my dedicated EOS server.

I can easily reproduce it by placing a functional block, such as a thruster, with no armour and it'll take 40+ shots from a small grid Gatling Turret before being destroyed. I apply a single piece of armour, either light or heavy, and between 1-3 shots hitting the armour (depending on deformation direction) will completely destroy the thruster in one go. This applies to lots of functional blocks.

I decided to create an XQuery script to resolve the issue and created a mod at:

https://spaceengineers.mod.io/deformationfix-beta

This is a workaround which applies deformation ratios (value is a best guess from experiments) and activation where it isn't already present to non-armour blocks across the CubeBlocks XML files. I gathered the information for this from my own experiments and the specific details in this post:

https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/solution-for-armor-deformation-destroying-attached-non-armor-blocks.7404276/

Obviously, a real fix to the deformation maths or base XML data in the core game would be better than needing any mod :-)

Thanks in advance and I look forward to a resolution to this,

Spence.

URL

Pyrald Lystent ●

Makes me wonder if they unfixed it on PC, but I'm not likely to test anytime soon.

URL

Spencil Splodge ●

No worries, yeah the issue may be present on PC too - hopefully it'll be resolved again soon.

URL

Laura K ●

Hello, Engineers!

Thank you for the further information. Thanks to Dementiurge's save, I have successfully reproduced the issue and reported this internally. I really appreciate all your help :)

Kind Regards

Laura, QA Department

URL

Spencil Splodge ●

Great stuff! I look forward to not requiring my mod ;-) Thanks very much.

URL

Frigidman ●

Well, this explains why one bullet hit and my hydrogen tanks pop. Sick of this... man, fix this bug already Keen!

URL

Frigidman ●

Short video showing 'wtf' in terms of shooting armor on a h2 tank vs shooting the tank itself. Yeah .... Keen .... fix this crap please.

https://youtu.be/FWoEEBRw-04

URL

error 404 ●

Armor is actualy made of gunpowder XD

URL

Ondrej Borz ●

Hello, Engineers!

I´m happy to announce you that this issue is already fixed internally and it will be introduced into the game in the next major release.

Kind Regards

Keen Software House: QA Department

URL

Space Ork ●

And it took only 2 years, that is very Keen.

URL

Spencil Splodge ●

Hi, great news, thanks for the update! I look forward to trying this out when it's released.

URL

Laura K ●

Hello, Engineer!

The fix for this is in v200

Thank you.

Kind Regards,

Keen Software House: QA Department

URL