Inertial dampeners cant cope with multiple grids/subgrids.
Any craft with the capacity to keep itself in place has the following issue:
Attaching a subgrid via rotor or piston, or any grid via landing gear or connector will cause the main craft to slowly sink or tilt until it falls from the sky.
I have linked a blueprint that shows this with a rotor at the bottom of the post. If you sit the camera very close to the arm on the rotor you can see it slowly dropping. Eventually the craft will tilt too much and fall. You can replace the rotor with a piston with a few blocks on or a landing gear with blocks on. The problem is the same. Attaching a landing gear to one side of the craft can sometimes cause it to even tilt in the wrong direction.
I have also observed the craft continue to tilt slowly even after deleting the rotor or piston. Which may be another issue entirely.
I used a lot of words but essentially: Any craft with rotors or pistons or docking craft cannot remain in a gravity field without eventually crashing.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1474941994
I have the same bug
I would like to clarify that despite a note in the patch notes saying this was fixed, it is not as of 1.187.2
I can see no difference.
I would like to clarify that despite a note in the patch notes saying this was fixed, it is not as of 1.187.2
I can see no difference.
I have the same. If I connect, clamp, or otherwise dock a ship into my landing bay, the entire ship grid will slowly list in that direction. I've also noticed that my ship grid, for some reason, keeps moving even when it should be stationary. I often get small grid tremors that end up randomly destroying the landing gear of smaller clamped ships.
I have the same. If I connect, clamp, or otherwise dock a ship into my landing bay, the entire ship grid will slowly list in that direction. I've also noticed that my ship grid, for some reason, keeps moving even when it should be stationary. I often get small grid tremors that end up randomly destroying the landing gear of smaller clamped ships.
Small Hydrogen ship with enough thrust and full tanks - roughly 26t weight.
I attached two solar panels on rotors (thus about 1t more with 2x rotor head, few armor blocks and 2x solar panel)..
Ship with enabled inertial dampeners can't keep altitude by itself despite having full hydrogen tanks and 6 small hydrogen thrusters in right direction (that should be enough for almost 50t).
Small Hydrogen ship with enough thrust and full tanks - roughly 26t weight.
I attached two solar panels on rotors (thus about 1t more with 2x rotor head, few armor blocks and 2x solar panel)..
Ship with enabled inertial dampeners can't keep altitude by itself despite having full hydrogen tanks and 6 small hydrogen thrusters in right direction (that should be enough for almost 50t).
It would be nice if they fixed this, Perhaps via adding a system that requires you to use your noggin to build ships, You have a thruster on the right of a mass centerpoint, Your ship will veer to the left, and vice versa, up down, left right, back forth.
That would add some much needed depth to this game, Note: rather then needing people to place thrusters perfectly, it would simply throttle down a thuster that would otherwise cause the craft to veer, Meaning, Newbies could still build ships, and they would work (as long as they have at least two thrusters on all sides, and or perfectly balanced their ship) But, It would be more efficient for older players to build ships with mass and center points in mind.
As i said, This is an opportunity to add more depth to the game.
It would be nice if they fixed this, Perhaps via adding a system that requires you to use your noggin to build ships, You have a thruster on the right of a mass centerpoint, Your ship will veer to the left, and vice versa, up down, left right, back forth.
That would add some much needed depth to this game, Note: rather then needing people to place thrusters perfectly, it would simply throttle down a thuster that would otherwise cause the craft to veer, Meaning, Newbies could still build ships, and they would work (as long as they have at least two thrusters on all sides, and or perfectly balanced their ship) But, It would be more efficient for older players to build ships with mass and center points in mind.
As i said, This is an opportunity to add more depth to the game.
Hello,
I wasn't able to reproduce it with attached blueprint. Could you provide video and confirm it still happens?
Thank you.
Kind RegardsKeen Software House: QA Departmen
Hello,
I wasn't able to reproduce it with attached blueprint. Could you provide video and confirm it still happens?
Thank you.
Kind RegardsKeen Software House: QA Departmen
Getting video could be hard. I just checked again and its still happening.
Are you sure you got close enough to see it moving? It's very slow. Fly as close as you can, hold the camera still and you can see it slowly move down the screen. Add more heavy blocks to the end of the arm and it will speed up.
If you still can't see it I could try and get video.
Getting video could be hard. I just checked again and its still happening.
Are you sure you got close enough to see it moving? It's very slow. Fly as close as you can, hold the camera still and you can see it slowly move down the screen. Add more heavy blocks to the end of the arm and it will speed up.
If you still can't see it I could try and get video.
I checked it again and I can see small movement, so we created a ticket for it and some programmer will have to look at it. From what I heard it seems to be a problem with Havoc constrains and the fix probably won't be as easy as it seems it could be.
We will inform you here once we have more information.
I checked it again and I can see small movement, so we created a ticket for it and some programmer will have to look at it. From what I heard it seems to be a problem with Havoc constrains and the fix probably won't be as easy as it seems it could be.
We will inform you here once we have more information.
Thanks! That's all I could reasonably hope for.
Thanks! That's all I could reasonably hope for.
I also noticed that the rotation movement can be stopped by overriding gyroscope. Just changing "override gyroscope" checkbox effectively stopped the grid provided above. I know it is not definitive solution, but it could help with parking of this kind of vehicles in gravity until it will be solved.
I also noticed that the rotation movement can be stopped by overriding gyroscope. Just changing "override gyroscope" checkbox effectively stopped the grid provided above. I know it is not definitive solution, but it could help with parking of this kind of vehicles in gravity until it will be solved.
Still an issue in 1.188.1
Mass attached to a rotor/adv rotor is not compensated for and ship in atmosphere cannot maintain hover on any axis. :[
Still an issue in 1.188.1
Mass attached to a rotor/adv rotor is not compensated for and ship in atmosphere cannot maintain hover on any axis. :[
Still an issue in 1.189.041
see linked workshop blueprint. with the 'guided bombs' hanging on rotors under the wings the damn thing cannot stay aloft. As soon as the bombs are released (detach rotor command set up in upper cockpit) it can hover just fine.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1679887251
Still an issue in 1.189.041
see linked workshop blueprint. with the 'guided bombs' hanging on rotors under the wings the damn thing cannot stay aloft. As soon as the bombs are released (detach rotor command set up in upper cockpit) it can hover just fine.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1679887251
I have the same issue with a ship that has another ship connected via a connector
I have the same issue with a ship that has another ship connected via a connector
Still an issue. I worked around it using the Gravity Aligner script, but it's very annoying.
Still an issue. I worked around it using the Gravity Aligner script, but it's very annoying.
Same issue here :(
Same issue here :(
This makes a Tug completely impossible since the rate of falling is based on the ratio of mass between the two grids.
This makes a Tug completely impossible since the rate of falling is based on the ratio of mass between the two grids.
Why is this still an issue almost a year after being posted? Extremely aggravating.
Why is this still an issue almost a year after being posted? Extremely aggravating.
Have this bug as well. I added some engines to the second grid past the rotor and that helped some but not 100% fixed.
Have this bug as well. I added some engines to the second grid past the rotor and that helped some but not 100% fixed.
I've noticed this happening whenever I add or remove a block from a grid. I built a miner awhile back and it hovered just fine but when I ground a block down and it disappeared, the back would tilt a bit, add a block and the same thing happens. And eventually the ship tilted too much and crashed.
I've noticed this happening whenever I add or remove a block from a grid. I built a miner awhile back and it hovered just fine but when I ground a block down and it disappeared, the back would tilt a bit, add a block and the same thing happens. And eventually the ship tilted too much and crashed.
17 months, this bug is still occuring when using landing gears / connectors to lift and move any grid/item.
17 months, this bug is still occuring when using landing gears / connectors to lift and move any grid/item.
I think this bug has been in the game since day 1 :P
It is caused by the dampeners only using the ship's mass for how much thrust to apply. So all the extra weight on a subgrid is not added into the math. I believe i have seen dampener scrips, those may work
I think this bug has been in the game since day 1 :P
It is caused by the dampeners only using the ship's mass for how much thrust to apply. So all the extra weight on a subgrid is not added into the math. I believe i have seen dampener scrips, those may work
Same issue here.
First I thought it was because of the mods, but without the mods the game is a bit "empty".
At a certain point I managed to get it hovering again, but it doesn't work anymore and I can't figure out the combo I did to get it working. I have a mining ship with 2 rotors with a drill on them. This was to mine down then flip them 90° and mine horizontal... For now I think I'll shelf it
Same issue here.
First I thought it was because of the mods, but without the mods the game is a bit "empty".
At a certain point I managed to get it hovering again, but it doesn't work anymore and I can't figure out the combo I did to get it working. I have a mining ship with 2 rotors with a drill on them. This was to mine down then flip them 90° and mine horizontal... For now I think I'll shelf it
Any updates or plans to fix this? This issue completely breaks many designs.
Any updates or plans to fix this? This issue completely breaks many designs.
I am having this problem also! My two small ships docked by landing gears in by large ship that hovers in the atmosphere slowly sink to the ground because the Inertial Dampeners don't take into account small ships that are attached via landing gears.
I have found a workaround though is to turn off all power sources in the small ships after you land in your big ship however that solution is far from ideal and this bug still needs to be fixed. Please fix this Keen :)
I am having this problem also! My two small ships docked by landing gears in by large ship that hovers in the atmosphere slowly sink to the ground because the Inertial Dampeners don't take into account small ships that are attached via landing gears.
I have found a workaround though is to turn off all power sources in the small ships after you land in your big ship however that solution is far from ideal and this bug still needs to be fixed. Please fix this Keen :)
Is this ever going to be fixed?
Is this ever going to be fixed?
A grid has a center of mass and knows how much thrust is has in each of the 6 directions. Keeping afloat is then a matter of activating thrusters on up to 3 of the 6 sides by different amounts depending on orientation of the ship. Simple.
Now when you have connected grids these conditions break:
Maybe if landing gears created a rigid connection akin to a merge block with a common center of mass, no physics interactions and only one grid having thrust I could see a fix for tug ships and motherships on the horizon.
So stop complaining and start becoming pessimistic! :D
A grid has a center of mass and knows how much thrust is has in each of the 6 directions. Keeping afloat is then a matter of activating thrusters on up to 3 of the 6 sides by different amounts depending on orientation of the ship. Simple.
Now when you have connected grids these conditions break:
Maybe if landing gears created a rigid connection akin to a merge block with a common center of mass, no physics interactions and only one grid having thrust I could see a fix for tug ships and motherships on the horizon.
So stop complaining and start becoming pessimistic! :D
As of right now i am still having an issue with this
The circumstances in which i was experiencing it:
I have a small grid ship
I attach a large grid module by connector and then with landing gear
bug continues with only the connector locked or with only the landing gear locked
As of right now i am still having an issue with this
The circumstances in which i was experiencing it:
I have a small grid ship
I attach a large grid module by connector and then with landing gear
bug continues with only the connector locked or with only the landing gear locked
22 Months! Come on! This is annoying and prohibits making a lot of construction ideas. Do something KEEN.
22 Months! Come on! This is annoying and prohibits making a lot of construction ideas. Do something KEEN.
I have the same bug with a combo of: station>advanced rotor>small rotor head>thrusters
It works but stops working for reasons that I couldn't identify, i think it is when i add blocks or when i remove/add thrusters
I have the same bug with a combo of: station>advanced rotor>small rotor head>thrusters
It works but stops working for reasons that I couldn't identify, i think it is when i add blocks or when i remove/add thrusters
I think it's clang, but maybe with the new collision shapes update it is solved?
I haven't tried since then.
I think it's clang, but maybe with the new collision shapes update it is solved?
I haven't tried since then.
i was about to mention that Whiplash141's excellent subgrid thruster script would be an interim solution (just put thrusters on the subgrid and use the script and dampeners should work) - but it does look like that the recent update may have fixed this issue
i was about to mention that Whiplash141's excellent subgrid thruster script would be an interim solution (just put thrusters on the subgrid and use the script and dampeners should work) - but it does look like that the recent update may have fixed this issue
This is still not fixed as of update 1.196.
This is still not fixed as of update 1.196.
Same.
Still happening.
This happens even on small ships. I have a little Grinder/Welder ship with rotating arms to swap tools. And even though the majority of its thrusters are on its arms, it still "slides". bigger ships with less thrust have now problem.
Same.
Still happening.
This happens even on small ships. I have a little Grinder/Welder ship with rotating arms to swap tools. And even though the majority of its thrusters are on its arms, it still "slides". bigger ships with less thrust have now problem.
Still an issue. Wouldn't simplest solution be to add mass of any object attached by landing gear to overall mass of ship? Or at least a good temporary workaround perhaps.
Using merge blocks works for certain aspects (large block to large block ships) but doesn't help small blocks to large block or piston / rotor sub-grid to main grid.
Still an issue. Wouldn't simplest solution be to add mass of any object attached by landing gear to overall mass of ship? Or at least a good temporary workaround perhaps.
Using merge blocks works for certain aspects (large block to large block ships) but doesn't help small blocks to large block or piston / rotor sub-grid to main grid.
Yes, this is annoying. Cannot create any in atmosphere ship with VTOL thrusters - when is this going to be fixed?
Yes, this is annoying. Cannot create any in atmosphere ship with VTOL thrusters - when is this going to be fixed?
I've just encountered this problem in 1.196.019 and been exploring different solutions with scripts and such, I have enough understanding now I think and I have a suggestion for keen if they see this, basically the inertial dampening calculation of the main grid cannot take the weight (or mass) of sub grids into account because they are not inherently linked variable-wise, this means in natural gravity fields or artificial ones, the connected sub grid will always sit on top of the main grid without the inertial dampeners of the main grid taking the extra mass into the calculation and supporting the weight regardless of the amount of thrusters attached to the main grid which adjust to match that already calculated ratio for just the main grid, for gameplay reasons it would make sense that non attached grids will weigh another down, I would suggest that the keen programmers simply implement a small script that registers a main grid and a sub grid and simply adds the additional weight into the final dampening calculation, this means in gameplay for instance if you have a large grid carrier and a small grid fighter, in order for the carrier to hold the fighter and allow this type of script to work, it must be connected to the carrier through a connector, but cannot be simply landed in a bay with landing gear, there is that landing gear limitation, but I think its a viable solution to an otherwise annoying bug, I'm not quite apt enough at writing code to do it myself but I think one might be able to do this with an artificial inertial dampening script with that simple added sub grid weight to the calculation and use that instead of the in game inertial dampeners, and I know that Whip's sub grid manager does a similar thing and I've been experimenting with it but instead of allowing the main grid to support the full weight, instead its more of a work around using the onboard propulsion of the sub grid to support its own weight, but this can create a lot of bugs an tends to be finnicky with thruster controls and whatnot, but hopefully this helps keen get an idea for a simple patch fix, if not it would be cool if someone figured out how to code the calculation into a script, if it still isn't fixed and I get good in the future and figure it out myself ill put something in the workshop.
I've just encountered this problem in 1.196.019 and been exploring different solutions with scripts and such, I have enough understanding now I think and I have a suggestion for keen if they see this, basically the inertial dampening calculation of the main grid cannot take the weight (or mass) of sub grids into account because they are not inherently linked variable-wise, this means in natural gravity fields or artificial ones, the connected sub grid will always sit on top of the main grid without the inertial dampeners of the main grid taking the extra mass into the calculation and supporting the weight regardless of the amount of thrusters attached to the main grid which adjust to match that already calculated ratio for just the main grid, for gameplay reasons it would make sense that non attached grids will weigh another down, I would suggest that the keen programmers simply implement a small script that registers a main grid and a sub grid and simply adds the additional weight into the final dampening calculation, this means in gameplay for instance if you have a large grid carrier and a small grid fighter, in order for the carrier to hold the fighter and allow this type of script to work, it must be connected to the carrier through a connector, but cannot be simply landed in a bay with landing gear, there is that landing gear limitation, but I think its a viable solution to an otherwise annoying bug, I'm not quite apt enough at writing code to do it myself but I think one might be able to do this with an artificial inertial dampening script with that simple added sub grid weight to the calculation and use that instead of the in game inertial dampeners, and I know that Whip's sub grid manager does a similar thing and I've been experimenting with it but instead of allowing the main grid to support the full weight, instead its more of a work around using the onboard propulsion of the sub grid to support its own weight, but this can create a lot of bugs an tends to be finnicky with thruster controls and whatnot, but hopefully this helps keen get an idea for a simple patch fix, if not it would be cool if someone figured out how to code the calculation into a script, if it still isn't fixed and I get good in the future and figure it out myself ill put something in the workshop.
Hello, Engineers!
Thanks a lot for sharing with us so much information and keeping this thread going. First of all, I need to say sorry that it took so long before we were able to get to it. On the other hand, this issue was successfully reproduced from another submitted thread. See here:
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/pc/topic/grids-with-attached-subgrids-sinking-while-in-natural-gravity
I´m pretty confident it is about the same issue.
As I already reproduced the issue from the other thread, I need to close this one as duplicate, as there is nothing more we can do about it. It was already put into our internal system.
You can check for status and updates in thread shared above.
Hope you will understand.
Please, if you come across anything else, don´t hesitate to write to us again.
Kind Regards
Keen Software House: QA Department
Hello, Engineers!
Thanks a lot for sharing with us so much information and keeping this thread going. First of all, I need to say sorry that it took so long before we were able to get to it. On the other hand, this issue was successfully reproduced from another submitted thread. See here:
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/pc/topic/grids-with-attached-subgrids-sinking-while-in-natural-gravity
I´m pretty confident it is about the same issue.
As I already reproduced the issue from the other thread, I need to close this one as duplicate, as there is nothing more we can do about it. It was already put into our internal system.
You can check for status and updates in thread shared above.
Hope you will understand.
Please, if you come across anything else, don´t hesitate to write to us again.
Kind Regards
Keen Software House: QA Department
Hello, Engineers!
I´m happy to inform you that this issue will be fixed in upcoming game update v200.
Kind Regards
Keen Software House: QA Department
Hello, Engineers!
I´m happy to inform you that this issue will be fixed in upcoming game update v200.
Kind Regards
Keen Software House: QA Department
I am still experiencing it - my welder ship with welders/grinders on advanced rotors does not stay in the air hovering even so there is enough thrust and simply sinks in the same way as reported years ago.
I am still experiencing it - my welder ship with welders/grinders on advanced rotors does not stay in the air hovering even so there is enough thrust and simply sinks in the same way as reported years ago.
Ship will not hover with second ship docked | Space Engineers PC Support (keenswh.com)
Ship will not hover with second ship docked | Space Engineers PC Support (keenswh.com)
Problem still exists with the current version despite the multiple responses from Keen saying it is/will be fixed. Got a rotor/hinge construction ship that sinks altitude regardless of inertial tensor and rotor/hinge locks.
Problem still exists with the current version despite the multiple responses from Keen saying it is/will be fixed. Got a rotor/hinge construction ship that sinks altitude regardless of inertial tensor and rotor/hinge locks.
This is still a problem. Literally every grid with a subgrid or attached grid tilts and sinks in gravity. Not sure why it says it's fixed.
This is still a problem. Literally every grid with a subgrid or attached grid tilts and sinks in gravity. Not sure why it says it's fixed.
THIS IS STILL A PROBLEM. Unmark it as solved, this is very much STILL, years later, not fixed.
THIS IS STILL A PROBLEM. Unmark it as solved, this is very much STILL, years later, not fixed.
FIX THIS DAMN THING IT'S CRIPPLING FOR ANY INTERESTING SHIP DESIGN!!!!!!!
FIX THIS DAMN THING IT'S CRIPPLING FOR ANY INTERESTING SHIP DESIGN!!!!!!!
Confirmed, still an issue.
Confirmed, still an issue.
This might be related to an issue with AI task block I experience and described here https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/pc/topic/41608-ai-recorder-ai-move-not-able-to-find-first-waypoint-when-rotor-attached
In short: Sub grids break the way point AI.
This might be related to an issue with AI task block I experience and described here https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/pc/topic/41608-ai-recorder-ai-move-not-able-to-find-first-waypoint-when-rotor-attached
In short: Sub grids break the way point AI.
Unbelievable. i just made an Account to confirm that this bug is still present... and this Thread is 5 Years old. WTH?
Unbelievable. i just made an Account to confirm that this bug is still present... and this Thread is 5 Years old. WTH?
Still an issue as of May 2024 (I am on PS4)
Still an issue as of May 2024 (I am on PS4)
This will cause everything you see in their new trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Udg2rul-s) to fail in many ways, just like this issue rendered all advanced usecases of the AI features effectively impossible.
This will cause everything you see in their new trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Udg2rul-s) to fail in many ways, just like this issue rendered all advanced usecases of the AI features effectively impossible.
Despite the constant ship weight calculation change in the Signal update the problem still exists. It appears the up thruster auto dampener calculation does not use the same weight calculation.
Despite the constant ship weight calculation change in the Signal update the problem still exists. It appears the up thruster auto dampener calculation does not use the same weight calculation.
contact update out and bug still remains same issue here after connecting to cargo module ship loses altitude with dampeners on even when having more than enough trust to carry tripple of that cargo
contact update out and bug still remains same issue here after connecting to cargo module ship loses altitude with dampeners on even when having more than enough trust to carry tripple of that cargo
STOP MARKING THIS AS SOLVED
STOP MARKING THIS AS SOLVED
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