[BLOCK SUGGESTION] Conveyor Tethers

Todd Martin shared this feedback 15 months ago
Submitted

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Comments (53)

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9

You have no idea how long I've wanted this to be in the game

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THIS. I need this!

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Yes. Yes. A million times yes!

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We need this

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I made a suggestion here with this same suggestion minus the infographic. Keen, just do it already. A modder has already got rope kinda working plus it being the same engine as medieval engineers we all know it's possible....

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Keen, we know you happily implement mods if there is enough hype for them, like the weather mod for instance. So here you go https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1927786100

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I was literally thinking the same thing re: Medieval Engineers. I think this feature is long overdue to allow for rovers to charge or share resources via home base without the clunk of the connector blocks.

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This would be great especially for tethering small ships to big ships without big clunky connectors

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It's a very reasonable suggestion I think. You could balance the cost of those to include some rarer materials like gold to keep this balanced against the convenience it brings. An alternate way of this would be strictly transferring power, essentially creating power cables to connect smaller outposts. Maximum range for tethers would obviously be up for discussion, but something like 10 blocks seems fair in my opinion.

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Or have 3 types of tubes:

- Energy only (cheapest)

- Item only

- Both (most expensive)

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I would say Transfer Energy &/or Hydrogen only. Moving steel plates with a sharp edge within tubes seem unreasonable...

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Maybe they come packaged in styrofoam?

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@KuuHaKu

What, the plates, or the tubes?

@Shih-Sung Chen "Moving steel plates with a sharp edge within tubes seem unreasonable."

Then again, sending steel plates through ninety-degree steel conveyors doesn't seem all that much better....

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This I need...

...PLEEEEEEEAAAASSSSEEE :)

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YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!


This is possible, Conveyor Hinges are a thing so this totally should work.

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This is real cool. Would deff add something useful to the game. And yes I made an account to say this.

Maybe only connect power and oxygen or something. Maybe some ore, I'm not sure.

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yes please

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Great idea. Would love to be able to attach an umbilical to a craft to use gas & energy & maybe build parts

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This would be a great addition to the game. Would make it easier to to connect my ice drilling platform to my cargo rover without having to line up the connectors. This block would also be a great way to hook up to starter drop pod in survival games to a base to use the survival kit as an O2/H2 generator until you have the resorces to build a full size one.

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I've always wanted to make a Giant Generator on one grid and link it with other grids like factories and stuff without having to worry about making everything the same grid or having to have a reactor in every grid, Which is why this is so fricking important.

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That'd be brilliant, I always manage to scrape my ship trying to connect to my base so landing nearby and just plug up a hose would help immensely :D

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This would be amazing for those that love logistics in a realism sense. No need for connectors sticking out of the floor, breaking up your blast door block tiling for hangars. Instead, you have sockets in walls and fuel trucks, who connect seamlessly with a small port on the side of your aircraft! It would make smaller strike craft feasible in survival!

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This would add so mutch to the game, please keen

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Astroneer ..kkkkk

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I have played this game for 5 years, I just now made an account for the soul purpose as to upvote this post.

WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU

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Thankyou :) let's hope keen takes interest.

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I agree with that! I'm really hoping Keen takes interest in this idea... and if not, somebody to make a mod that adds this block into the game. It would make transportation between my main base and mining bases so much easier.

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I just did the same. This is an idea worth pushing - hard!

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Awesome idea!


In combination with it, it would be cool if we could have mpre control over connectors aharing settings:


https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/pc/topic/improved-connector-optionsrestraints

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Absolutely!

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i think the power needs to be a separate cable

something cheaper, but unable to transfer components,

the components tube unable to transfer power

the cables could be differently sized

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Astroneer has these if you need to see a very good example of what you can do with flexi connectors

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It would solve the problem of fueling ships that are out of hydrogen. Now you need to find various ways to move it somehow to stations connector or build a vehicle that exactly fits the height of ships connector. Or totally rebuild your creation by finding place where you can fit atmospheric/ionic engines. Yes, it is challenging. But when you play alone (mostly), it's very tiring and frustrating.

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I've seen many rovers or ships run out of fuel or power and if you don't have production on them they despawn when walking 500m from them. When someone helps you the first step is to place matching connectors on each grid, which feels like overkill when you just need some of their power. For rescue missions or more generally, ships that only need small components, H2 or electricity, these hoses look like an awesome alternative to connectors!

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Its great idea. Rovers and on planet survival need this soo much. Vehicles out of power and without H2 gen or reactor are hard to connect to base or just repower. Now easiest way is build new battery on it , go to base and then charge fuel and destory battery.

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give me download button xD the idee is nice

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Looks beautiful!

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I'm working on something similar to this so this will come in very handy as a idea source material if you don't mind.

I will be trying to imitate this as part of my current iteration to best of my ability. In the mean time, i will be forwarding this on the mod's page in hopes for more exposure. Maybe Keen will listen?

https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2202476548

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Cool mod! Though this block would work more like the tether system that's in Moonbase Alpha, except it would also act as a conveyor between the ship/rover and a base to allow resources (ice, ore, components, etc) to travel between the two things that are connected.

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Yeah, that is the ultimate plan if possible ofc and my knowledge/help i get to actually do it.

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This is a great mod, I'm using it!

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If you have a Keen feedback page I'll upvote it!

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you could just grab the link for this post, and post it places, asking people to upvote... pestering people wont get you anywhere though, so be aware of that at least

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however, something like this...

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/pc/topic/piston-exerts-force-using-connected-blocks-but-only-in-certain-directions-non-axis

...is something we need to fix, before they add more things that can break. they are on a roll, lets get this game as polished as possible

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This needs to be in the base game. Right now the only way to repower batteries on a grid is to connect them with a connector or have something like solar panels attached to them. It makes cars and other small powered vehicles dependent on a LOT of hydrogen for engines, which are already super inefficient. Plugging a car into a wind tower would be amazing.

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Don't forget to share with any fellow engineers. Every voice counts. 😁

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Please let this be a thing!

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This would be awesome in terms for a refueling and the like.


Heck, i would settle for just a small grid Small Connector. Works just like a connector, but can only do the usual small pipe stuff.

Then i guess a Large Grid Small Connector as well to be able to hook into it.


There are TONS of builds out there that would benefit from something like this. As it stands, the standard connector for small ships works well, but if you arent moving large objects through its, its huge. and you have to build around it.

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...290 votes. Oh my goodness. I don't believe I've ever seen a voice count this high on any suggestion so far.

One question, though. The description says that the tether cables themselves are cosmetic only, there's no physics interaction. Why not? The community loves ropes and have suggested them numerous times, not to mention that without collision the cables would easily clip through other blocks, which is pretty immersion-breaking.

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OP is aware that Keen is trying to minimize the physics workload and make the game run faster especially on dedicated servers and XBox. If every kink in the cable had physics interactions with grids and players, there would be a greater likelihood that the entire idea was shelved as too CPU intensive without giving it consideration. When writing up a proposal It's always helpful for your cause to take the perspective of the developers, predict pressing questions and address them in your "sales pitch". It also signals to other players that OP has put some thought into this proposal and it can actually go somewhere.

That said, it is always possible to add the missing physics interactions and immersion later on as a client side option.

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Personally I would like to see better options for docking and refueling in general. This seems like an interesting option and seems like a possible good start.

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These would certainly help the realism aspect. Being able to park #near# a dock and hook-up is much better than having to build-in specific connectors to match structures to ships. 👍

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So much truth there. I don't see the physics being as huge of an issue as long as they don't give it the hugest range ever but that's a different can of worms entirely. I don't mind the connector option but it seems rather limited in terms of functionality and overall just seems clunky.

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I don't think physics interactions would be the end of the work, but like pistons the physics interaction doesn't have to be complex, say, 1 or so interactable mesh along the length of the weird that could be nudged around and would apply some level of resistance. (also this could be used as a way of severing the connection).

That would be useful for combat.

The collision mesh wouldn't have to have complex geometry, spheres would likely suffice given the shape of a pipe.

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Being able to land my small ship in a large ships hanger and connect to a "hose" connection to refuel or to a refueling vehicle would be better than a massive connector on my small fighter etc...

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need this to be vanilla, sometimes you just have that ship that can't quite make it back to base to dock having a lenient connector would save a lot of engineers quite a bit of time and another plus would be clusters of independent grids bridged by these.

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Yes! Do it add this in to the game.

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Putting up distant turrets would be so nice with this

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I have the impression that the max length is supposed to be so short that the lack of physics wouldn't become too obvious and that they don't replace actual conveyor blocks with a free alternative where you don't have to pay for the meter. I.e. 5m or something.

It could need some clarification in the OP.

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Not that it really needs clarification in the OP per se. It's something Keen should think about anyway and find the best balance. And I don't think this would ever replace normal connectors even if it was more then 5m or something.

But yeah, as long as they make it moddable so people can make mods that adjust by their tastes, we should be more then fine. :)

We just need the base, we can do the rest. ;)

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I personally LOVE this idea. The no physics on the cable on the cable is overall a great idea for strain on systems, but I would add a toggleable magnetism that draws the connected grid to it along with a slider for max cable distance so people who don't like immersion breaking clipping can set it so that the cable disappears once they leave their hangars or designated fueling area. I would also use it to make "micro" grinding/welding drones that would have sections of conveyers with plugs on either side for extensions that will use landing gear to hold everything together when in storage. Making a small version for small grids would be absolutely epic as well. Often I don't want to move large items but would like to add fuel/gas to to a compact build without manually dropping it in.

Overall...

DO IT!! DO IT NOW!!!

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THIS THIS THIS THIS

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Absolutely this. The idea of pulling up in the rover right quick with enemies on the horizon, low on fuel... Get out, quickly run the pipe tether and manually fetch any larger munitions and by the time you're done you can disconnect and go. All without having to faff around with the (I'll say it.) awful connector system. This, this, THIS.


It'd feel a lot more satisfying to have to run actual hose to your crafts to refuel them, either with hydrogen or energy than parking up to a very specific spot EVERY TIME to connect.


You don't need to make it act as a chain to drag, have it snap off and stay with the craft or, the thing that was left behind. Or maybe it could work if both were light and the pilot was gentle!

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The chain idea would be for building/repairing/deconstructing very large objects like a full base or a large carrier/battleship.

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YES

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i think that you could totally have physics interactions, but thats a far cry from what these would normally be used for

maybe items can only be transferred through a more costly version, gasses like hydrogen or oxygen through a cheaper version, and one thats basically a steel plate and computer component for power only, with 3x3 variants for large items


priority 1 would be fixing or reducing the load of the conveyor system, (which has at least somewhat been achieved with the tiered update system) because this would only serve to complicate it and make the processing overhead much worse

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it will be a hell to develop this feature...

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Not at all, if we remove physical interactions with the tube, it boils down to a simple bezier curve with a tube mesh linked to it

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whoops wrong field

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YEAAAAAAH this is excactly what ive been waiting for.

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No solid items true "soft" tubes.

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Would this also connect electrical and/or terminal access, or just inventory?

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This would be handy for refuelling rockets that have been built vertically. Maybe it should also have a piston like extender included too? Kind of like how they refuel real liquid fuelled rockets.

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yes keen very cool , cool game play

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Ejector blocks could be repurposed for this - I've only ever seen them used for decoration and I don't think anyone has a use case for a block whose sole purpose is to eject small components now that stone is useful.

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i still eject the stone even though stone is now useful you still get so much gravel from that you end up having more than you needed and end up having to dump the gravel or make so much inventory for it that is out wighs the cost of keeping it

if i ever need gravel or stone it's simple mine it it' take a hole lot less energy however this idea is good for small outpost where you don't want to make such a huge based for one material

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They couldnt really be used like this in small or tight environments. For example, on my single player world i have a train line which currently uses hinges, but even that is still quite buggy when lag decides to strike. With tethers that wouldnt be an issue, all i'd have to do is have a rotor go into a hinge, then into another rotor, allowing me to still pull the carts behind the engine and also allow more movement with the carts, creating less clang. A practical use for this though could be long range conveyor lines that span afew kilometers. They can be placed between multiple small pylons or support pillars that transport cargo, gas, or power to girds over a long range, without having to use cargo bots, create long clangy conveyor+hinge lines, or having to manually shift the goods

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I am looking for a similar block ( maybe there is already a mod for this ? ):


I am a very poor driver / pilot. Therefore I connect my outposts via pipelines to the main base. The problem is: It's looking very bad with the curvature of the planets.


I thought of something like this ...8e1c328093f921d7fd12a0b422962a9d

"conveyor shimming element"

It would work like this :

The block is 2x1x1 blocks big ( red / blue blocks )

It consists of

  • 5 entry conveyor base part
  • a 3D advanced rotor ( here a gyroscope ). It doesn't need to apply any torque force, as long as the locked feature is still available.
  • and a virtual conveyor tube.

It could work like this ...

  • you build the red shimming element
  • you build the blue shimming element close by. Or in case of a ship you move the blue one in vicinity.
  • There is no need for a manual adjustment in angle or distance.
  • In the control panel of both elements - the red and the blue - there is a drop down list of close by shimming elements. The max distance could be 2,5 m.
  • If a shimming element is a little bit too far, it is still listed, but marked as too far away.
  • If a shimming element is already connected to another element, it is also listed, but marked as not free for connection.
  • Then you select a free and close enough shimming element in the list ...
  • ... and order to attach both.
  • A piston like conveyor tube extends slowly from your starting element after correcting the orientation of the 3d rotor part.
  • In the end the connection is locked like a blocked rotor.

This could make extra long pipelines much easier to build.


The best : All functions are already in the game. They only need to be assembled in a new way.


..

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I have little to say outside of, 3 meters is a better distance. 2.5 is a bit close and doesn't really leave much room for "oops".

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For your case you can just use a few hinges as a cable :P

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A few dozens of hinges. My outposts are several kilometres away. Closest is about 700 blocks in one direction.... furthest is about 2000 blocks in another direction.


The planet's curvature "forces" me to use a hinge / rotor correction about every 100 blocks ... or it will look to odd.


Without the transformation of "ship" to station I would have several unstable grids. And the adjustment of rotors or hinges to the next part of the pipeline is a pain in the ... something.


I am just lucky I don't have to move the outposts so often.

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yeah digi, for a modder, thats a pretty stupid thing to say


hes right, adding more grids increases the likelihood of things going wrong, and causes more strain on whatever is processing them, especially if ANY are under tension/compression/torsion, which usually means about a million times worse of an impact than if they werent, which means to relieve that, you need a needlessly complex system to do so


not to mention it would save us from having to get the server to align the grid (which causes performance issues and sometimes breaks a LOT of stuff in the process (subgrids, locked grids, etc.)) every time this happens we dont need anything special, just something to connect two points and look somewhat realistic


edit: maybe some sort of wire and tether system, where you can only connect one or the other, or have a combined one, but the combined one costs more and has a lower max range

so the tether could be a maximum of 6m to 8m, the electric one could be 100m to 500m, and the combined one could be 4m or 5m which means that instead of more blocks connecting the two grids, they think they are connected and a rope is drawn between the two connections, with maybe the electric one being more limited in range on mobile grids but longer range (like power lines) one stationary grids, allowing for some sort of power relay system

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look, digi, i get it, and i also love your work, but this is less of "keep things as vanilla as possible" and more of "lets solve a lot of problems that happen that probably dont have a good fix or are too complex for some to understand" because ive seen so many people destroy servers with their lack of knowledge on rotors/pistons, destroying their stuff in the process, and other people then saying that those features need to be removed, which kills servers or makes servers extremely specialized, in which people who dont use pistons and rotors literally complain until they are removed because they then think that they are "overpowered" in combat


we also need a better tutorial for this kind of stuff, one of the problems with a tutorial like the one currently in the game is the either A. lack of content or B. time it takes to get to and learn every subject, and there may exist tutorial worlds out there on the workshop, but they go largely unnoticed.

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if you really want a good example as to WHY that would have been a bad idea, look at splitsie's ultra hardcore "Survival: Impossible" series where he is trying to get a conveyor around the curvature of an asteroid, because a straight shot would cost too much or just wont work for the application.

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Digi Is right you can use hinges as cable with manipulation mod.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1815824812


I was aware of one mod that can spawn Small grids directly from inventory item.

Here are vanilla Hinges with (Connectors+Collectors)Mod + (GridPickupMod)

(GridPickupMod) == https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2417159596

(Connectors+Collectors) == https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1736785358


d59d03c3c4e175c717dcded81350ab50

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what you could even do is hold down left click and MAYBE even use the scroll wheel to set the length of tether you want to use from how many resources


just a thought though

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i would just have it baked into the cost of the tether block to where theres a max distance and it "breaks" if you get it too far while connected, maybe allowing for much more flexible intra-grid connections in niche scenarios that would actually improve the likelihood of NOT fucking something up

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This really needs to be added- with the new rover cockpits in the scrap race update, it's now really hard to fit a huge connector onto a small rover. Adding this would make it much, much easier to refuel and recharge rovers, especially small ones.

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not exactly a great reason why, as you can put those connectors sideways, but i agree with the spirit

maybe for that reason, we could have a 2x2 connector or a 1x1 connector that can lock with larger connectors as if it were a larger connector, basically using the existing ejector but a slightly higher cost, as barely anyone uses ejectors anyways aside from spitting out massive amounts of waste into the server (which causes problems if theres too many, from deleting people's accidentally dropped stuff to just causing lag, etc.) that of which could be solved with some sort of "item deleter" for things like gravel or just simply recycling items that can be recycled


edit: speaking of which, keen could make the items stack, because i know one of the worst issues with items in cargo containers is the fact that they keep their exact orientation and each slot is another thing that causes a tiny bit of lag, which is really a problem once you have too many cargo slots filled

so maybe just simply having non-stackable items stack and also having the items be alphabetically sorted with priorities (like weapons/ammo, bottles, tools, components, ingots in that order) by default

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Agree. A simple contactless connection could also reduce the burden for Havok (the physic engine of the game), increase the performance and stability.

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i have a feeling that there would be some sort of magnetic force instead, like with connectors, but only at the tether's max length, meaning it would be harder to completely break the tether without intentionally doing so, and people would use them to suspend things, and we would have a rope situation on our hands, if they didnt, how would they tell if it met max length? theres many ways, but i think that the lag would be roughly the same and essentially, it would be better to have another method of using existing tools.

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The performance impact of a tether would absolutely be less than stacking hinges or rotors, as there would be reduced or perhaps even no need for complex geometry physics calculations. Parachutes don't check for obstructions, so tethers wouldn't have to either - just keep the two tethered points within the tether's max length, and you're golden.

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maybe not, as the way that they work is essentially the same once they are at max range, otherwise, if theres no actual physical connection between the two and its only a calculatory and graphical connection, there also wouldnt be a way to have them be "ropes"

but, another thing is the way they have the inventory system working, theres no current system for "wireless inventory interfaces between grids" so they would have to be connected somehow, and thus there will ALWAYS be some sort of physics calculation

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also, i think you forget that rotors/pistons/hinges alone, even stacked, dont do NEARLY as much as people like LSG want you to think, they dont know what the game does

its like saying that a drunk driver can blame their truck for getting them a DUI and killing multiple people in an accident, its not the tool, its the application

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Built my first rover last night and something like this would of allowed me to power it in a few minutes rather than the 15 to 20 mins of forward, reverse, forward, curse, reverse, repair, forward, reverse of aligning the connectors lol

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Honestly, I mostly want this for early-game use: mining out a bunch of stone to bootstrap a base would be just a bit faster with a box like this that can live on the floor of the hole and let the poor miner not have to fly/climb out of the hole every minute or two when their personal inventory's full.

I don't think it'd reduce the time tremendously, but it'd certainly make it a less ... tedious? ... process (and more friendly on reduced hydrogen reserves right off the drop pod).