Staying UPRIGHT wile Rotating in Gravity while flying.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can we get gravity aligned character/vehicle movement.
This model is currently implemented exactly as desired when you are walking around, but not for flight.
Issue: If you are in a gravity well, say, hovering in your suit above a planet surface, it is natural to have your view all perfectly aligned with gravity. Now, if you look at the horizon and turn right or left, your orientation stays upright. However, if you look even a smidge up or down then turn around, very quickly you find that you are flying sideways or upside down. This is undesirable for navigation, safety, and thruster placement on grids.
when I build something on a planet, I am looking all over the place, but 99.9% of the time, I want to be upright as if I was walking. Sometimes I want to tip, to get to that block in a tight corner or something, but I want it to be intentional.
This seems like a natural extension of Z Dampener systems, especially with the option to align our dampeners with nearby grids. Speaking of which, artificial gravity should have this effect too.
I like this feedback
Just me? Hmm
Just me? Hmm
What you are asking for, Josh, is to "flatten" the world partially, from a true 3D / 6 DOF type experience into a 2D or enhanced 2D game. It's fundamental to the game design and philosophy, so it might be a big thing to ask for.
I find that a forced 2D approach to what is supposed to be 3D (space) is annoying, and some games indeed do that. I was playing around in X4 the other day, near a station, and every time I tried to roll to a new orientation to approach a different part of the station from a different angle, after a second or two, the game "corrected" my up/down orientation to the game's preferred up/down. This directly stood in the way of what I was trying to do.
In the worlds of SE1 and SE2, you get true 3D / true 6 degree of freedom (3 translational and 3 rotational axes) and very little correction. The only thing SE does that "corrects" me is when I'm looking up while standing on a surface, then turn on my jetpack (x key) the view snaps back to forward, so I have to re-rotate my body to face the direction I want to go.
Now, there are various modes for dampers (z key). Turned off, turned on (inertial damper) and target-relative, so you can more easily approach and move around a moving target. Perhaps one might consider adding an "up / down" axis damper that will attempt to re-orient your body or spacecraft with the nearest gravity field. (ETA: Looks like you are already asking for this. Cool!) And make it so that it might be toggled on/off in your world advanced settings. Then, we can all get what we want. ;)
What you are asking for, Josh, is to "flatten" the world partially, from a true 3D / 6 DOF type experience into a 2D or enhanced 2D game. It's fundamental to the game design and philosophy, so it might be a big thing to ask for.
I find that a forced 2D approach to what is supposed to be 3D (space) is annoying, and some games indeed do that. I was playing around in X4 the other day, near a station, and every time I tried to roll to a new orientation to approach a different part of the station from a different angle, after a second or two, the game "corrected" my up/down orientation to the game's preferred up/down. This directly stood in the way of what I was trying to do.
In the worlds of SE1 and SE2, you get true 3D / true 6 degree of freedom (3 translational and 3 rotational axes) and very little correction. The only thing SE does that "corrects" me is when I'm looking up while standing on a surface, then turn on my jetpack (x key) the view snaps back to forward, so I have to re-rotate my body to face the direction I want to go.
Now, there are various modes for dampers (z key). Turned off, turned on (inertial damper) and target-relative, so you can more easily approach and move around a moving target. Perhaps one might consider adding an "up / down" axis damper that will attempt to re-orient your body or spacecraft with the nearest gravity field. (ETA: Looks like you are already asking for this. Cool!) And make it so that it might be toggled on/off in your world advanced settings. Then, we can all get what we want. ;)
I disagree that it would change it to a 2D world. The effect would be Identical to the effect on the player when you are walking on the ground, just .. in the air. Also, I am not advocating LOCKING the engineer to this orientation, Use of rotation Q/E controls to turn sideways would still function normally, so if you Want to rotate relative to "Down" then you can. The key point there, is "WANT" - As you stated, unintended rotation is not fun.
Let me explain further:
Currently if you are flying, and look straight at the horizon, then look up 90 deg, then to the right 90 deg, you will be facing towards your original right, but you would be rotated 90 degrees clockwise. Unintended. In space, that is fine. In gravity, that is jarring. As you are playing, you have to repeatedly Rotate CCW to get back to upright. If you are building a base on the ground (intended for foot traffic), ending up sideways is disorienting (pun intended).
ALSO, if you build an atmospheric ship, you intentionally add more thrust to the bottom to counteract gravity. If you become rotated, even a little, it takes some of the required force keeping you aloft, from your powerful lift thrusters, and transfers it to your lateral thrusters, which inevitably are less powerful. Too much, and you crash. Advanced systems should be able to adjust for this.
If you were standing on the ground however, and perform those same rotations, you would be looking to the right again, but you would be upright. This keeps your blood from pooling in your ear, and keeps your ships from falling out of the sky.
If you want 6DOF, fine, no problem. still possible, just ... do it intentionally.
Technical Jargon:
There are 2 ways of handling rotation on the programming side. The version used when walking is called Euler rotation. This is what you think of when you think about how a fighter jet moves. They have to think about "down" because of Lift, but it doesn't prevent them from doing stunts.
The version used in game when flying is called Quaternion. This is the True 6DOF you mentioned.
Both systems are already in use in the game. All I am stating is to favor Euler when in a gravity well.
I disagree that it would change it to a 2D world. The effect would be Identical to the effect on the player when you are walking on the ground, just .. in the air. Also, I am not advocating LOCKING the engineer to this orientation, Use of rotation Q/E controls to turn sideways would still function normally, so if you Want to rotate relative to "Down" then you can. The key point there, is "WANT" - As you stated, unintended rotation is not fun.
Let me explain further:
Currently if you are flying, and look straight at the horizon, then look up 90 deg, then to the right 90 deg, you will be facing towards your original right, but you would be rotated 90 degrees clockwise. Unintended. In space, that is fine. In gravity, that is jarring. As you are playing, you have to repeatedly Rotate CCW to get back to upright. If you are building a base on the ground (intended for foot traffic), ending up sideways is disorienting (pun intended).
ALSO, if you build an atmospheric ship, you intentionally add more thrust to the bottom to counteract gravity. If you become rotated, even a little, it takes some of the required force keeping you aloft, from your powerful lift thrusters, and transfers it to your lateral thrusters, which inevitably are less powerful. Too much, and you crash. Advanced systems should be able to adjust for this.
If you were standing on the ground however, and perform those same rotations, you would be looking to the right again, but you would be upright. This keeps your blood from pooling in your ear, and keeps your ships from falling out of the sky.
If you want 6DOF, fine, no problem. still possible, just ... do it intentionally.
Technical Jargon:
There are 2 ways of handling rotation on the programming side. The version used when walking is called Euler rotation. This is what you think of when you think about how a fighter jet moves. They have to think about "down" because of Lift, but it doesn't prevent them from doing stunts.
The version used in game when flying is called Quaternion. This is the True 6DOF you mentioned.
Both systems are already in use in the game. All I am stating is to favor Euler when in a gravity well.
if im understanding this "idea" correctly... its having a setting for the gyro, to put pressure not exactly at gravity, but towards "the ground"
this would simplify wheels A LOT, and make them usefull.
its worded horribly, but "down isnt down" when you are on a planet. when drilling tunnels inside the crust, down is objectively wherever the most material your rig contacts the ground. "up" only becomes relavant when you are trying to actually escape gravity, or exit ground at its nearest point on the side of a mountain (at which point "up" can become left, but its really just lateral motion depending on orientation which is completly lost when using visual queues under terrain.
eventual AI controls that maintain orientation can help with this sort of thing.
if im understanding this "idea" correctly... its having a setting for the gyro, to put pressure not exactly at gravity, but towards "the ground"
this would simplify wheels A LOT, and make them usefull.
its worded horribly, but "down isnt down" when you are on a planet. when drilling tunnels inside the crust, down is objectively wherever the most material your rig contacts the ground. "up" only becomes relavant when you are trying to actually escape gravity, or exit ground at its nearest point on the side of a mountain (at which point "up" can become left, but its really just lateral motion depending on orientation which is completly lost when using visual queues under terrain.
eventual AI controls that maintain orientation can help with this sort of thing.
Not quite what I was talking about, but it is an intriguing idea nonetheless. Use of a Gyro to stabilize orientation relative to a specific direction Would solve the vehicle half of this idea. I wonder if you could program event controllers or something to handle this..... Maybe we need a gravity ... direction ... sensor? Oh the things we could make with that.... Make our own mechanical horizon bubble instead of relying on the UI....
It does not however handle when flying with just the jetpack.
I do feel that "up" and "down" ARE relevant even when underground, because as I stated before, atmospheric ships typically have more thrust pointing "down" towards the center of gravity of the planet, to create lift. If your alignment relative to this axis is changed too much, ... ships crash.
Not quite what I was talking about, but it is an intriguing idea nonetheless. Use of a Gyro to stabilize orientation relative to a specific direction Would solve the vehicle half of this idea. I wonder if you could program event controllers or something to handle this..... Maybe we need a gravity ... direction ... sensor? Oh the things we could make with that.... Make our own mechanical horizon bubble instead of relying on the UI....
It does not however handle when flying with just the jetpack.
I do feel that "up" and "down" ARE relevant even when underground, because as I stated before, atmospheric ships typically have more thrust pointing "down" towards the center of gravity of the planet, to create lift. If your alignment relative to this axis is changed too much, ... ships crash.
Replies have been locked on this page!