Balanced Progression: How We Unlock Blocks
Hi Keen,
1st off your doing awesome! this is a lot to balanced and your guys love for this game shows!
SE1&2 are my all time favorite games so thank you! Also I am confident I will be very happy with whatever path SE2 development takes as there are may ways to engineer a great experience.
Idea I would like to Share:
Issue: community is divided on block unlocking via contracts VS just starting with all the blocks
Both sides are correct here (progression --> Solid FTUE VS No-progression --> FREEDOM! :D) Ideally if a system can be crafted that makes room for BOTH then we get the best of both worlds.
Possible Solutions: Here are a few attempts at sharing ideas to tackle this
1) Introduce Persistent Engineering Rank: If a player is NEW to SE2 his rank is 0 and he must earn his blocks (somehow...likely through contracts). as he progresses his "rank#" increases granting him more access to blocks. If this "Rank" can be persistent across servers then an engineer will feel like 'OK I just need to earn it once I can do that'. Veterans of SE1 may find it an acceptable to pay that tax one time and newer players may be able to feel pride in becoming a "Max Rank" engineer who now gets to boss around the Rank 0 newbies :P
2) Alternate Unlock Mechanics: Part of the fun of Engineering is doing things that you WANT even if they are not "approved". There may be value in adding a few different ways to unlock a block. several examples here below
a) Scrap Based Research: If you want to build a block find it in the wild Collect resources that you sacrifice to your "Tech Station" to work towards unlocking that ability to build that block. This could work VERY well if paired with the ability to "Merge" grids. this would give the player a logistical question of "I found the block I want Do I grind it for research OR do I attach it and use it for a while"?
b) Resource Based Research: if you have a "Tech Station" that needs Ore + Energy to unlock block blueprints we could then allow a player to just live off the land and progress as needed
c) Black Market Pirate: capture a ship and sell it to pirates to be scrapped down. this is technically a lot like a contract but if GTA games proved anything its that being bad is fun
d) [WARNING THIS IDEA IS NOT FOR EVERYONE]: make it very hard to unlock new blocks but very EASY to Steal a block blueprint from another player. If I steal it form your database you lose access to the block. this would make competitive play centered around grid collecting and harvesting.
e) PVE Unlocks: If I assault an enemy NPC base and grab their loot I would love to find plans for a block I don't currently have access to.
f) Exploration Unlocks: allow players to stumble across blue prints naturally via data pads while exploring
3) Start With All Block TYPES & unlock Upgrades: Currently If I load up Vanilla SE2 and want to build a drill ship or dig rig I cant due to the fact that every ship drill (Including the smallest one) is locked behind a contract wall. Instead have the Engineer start with the smallest/weakest version of every block (Smallest version of the drill, welder, grinder, insert block type here, etc). This way a veteran CAN engineer the types of systems they want and they have "CONSTRAINTS" to engineer around (I only have the smallest drill block and want to make a dig rig) as apposed to (I want to make something that does "X" and I cant because I have not yet spent time on the contracts). this might help a fair bit for many players. additionally if this idea is paired up with some of the other ideas above then you may get a strong sense of progression as you go from starting with the weakest versions of blocks to unlocking the full versions of all the blocks. I feel that it is odd I cant just pop into a game build a ship that digs in the first 15 min and get to work collecting resources. Its almost as though the intent is for us to use the hand drill for an extended time rather then engineer a way around doing work :P.
Also Total Side Note: You guys NAILED it with the asteroid fields I honestly was extremely skeptical going in but now that I have been playing in it they are my favorite feature, visually stunning views looking out at the planets partially obscured by the dust and rock. Terrific being able to find patches of various ores with some looking. feels exciting to explore with the random mining stations you can find and good ore all over to be located and acquired.
Sorry this is a question not a suggestion: I am always confused by the dynamics between hand tool upgrades and ship block tools. For example it FEELs like the top tier hand drill is Harder to unlock then the top tier ship drill. My 1st guess would have been that all hand tools are inferior to ship blocks but maybe that is not the intent? As a player I am always confused as the FEEL or VIBE is never established solidly by the game. Thoughts?
Also: I am NOT confident I am using your forum correctly. I clicked on the "Give us feedback" link in steam and saw the "Give feedback button" in the top right corner of the screen when I arrived on this page so I clicked it and started typing. now that it is posted I'm not sure If I did this right or very very wrong. Apologies for my ignorance.
I like this feedback
Hmmm...
Sand - All blocks unlocked. No progression contracts. Contracts are just random, and for the completion rewards. No story, no faction story requirements.
Box - Progression. Contracts required. Story required. Progression locked behind story progression.
Sandbox - Different type of Progression. Basically...what would it be like to continue playing in a world after the Main Quest complete...? What if the Progression and different Factions and gameplay dynamics were dynamically changing encounters? What if the world reacted logically to how it was setup? What if the world was alive?
I like all your ideas...except Point 1) and Point 2)d...isn't that how a mafia 'protection' racket is started...?
Hmmm...
Sand - All blocks unlocked. No progression contracts. Contracts are just random, and for the completion rewards. No story, no faction story requirements.
Box - Progression. Contracts required. Story required. Progression locked behind story progression.
Sandbox - Different type of Progression. Basically...what would it be like to continue playing in a world after the Main Quest complete...? What if the Progression and different Factions and gameplay dynamics were dynamically changing encounters? What if the world reacted logically to how it was setup? What if the world was alive?
I like all your ideas...except Point 1) and Point 2)d...isn't that how a mafia 'protection' racket is started...?
Pro tip: try not to mix too many ideas into a single feedback topic. People might read everything, but they’re less likely to vote if they disagree with even part of it.
I gave you a vote - not because I agree with everything (in fact, I disagree with quite a few points), but because you raised an important question about progression.
That said, I wouldn’t treat progression and block unlocks as the same thing. Progression is a much broader concept. Block locks feel somewhat arbitrary to me and can actually limit the ways players progress, rather than support them.
What I find more engaging is natural progression driven by player motivation and immediate needs. At the start, you have access to basic resources - iron, nickel, and silicon - which, with the official balance mod, can be found almost anywhere on Verdure. Iron is the core material for most things, nickel enables atmospheric thrusters, and silicon unlocks batteries and cockpits. Simply gathering resources is already a progression.
Then you have the production chain. It is pretty simple and most definitely incomplete yet, but production blocks gates you fro accessing more advanced blocks. In essence, the game becomes a loop: you build grid A to obtain resource or capability B, which allows you to build grid C, and so on. That’s real progression, and honestly, it might already be enough.
Importantly, this progression isn’t strictly linear. It depends on your starting conditions, your decisions, and your playstyle. Everyone’s path is different.
Sector unlocks, on the other hand, feel like an additional gate tied to the contract system. It would be great to have alternative options—like paying a significant amount of credits to travel between sectors. That would make sense, since jumping should require energy. Or you could build your own jump drive and explore independently, without relying on NPCs at all—especially if you’re playing as a pirate or just prefer a different style.
Even if you follow the intended colonization path and complete contracts, I don’t think block unlocks are necessary. Different contracts already require different preparation, so you still go through the same loop: gather resources, build the right grids, complete the objective. There are many ways to reward players without forcing progression through artificial unlocks.
To summarize:
Pro tip: try not to mix too many ideas into a single feedback topic. People might read everything, but they’re less likely to vote if they disagree with even part of it.
I gave you a vote - not because I agree with everything (in fact, I disagree with quite a few points), but because you raised an important question about progression.
That said, I wouldn’t treat progression and block unlocks as the same thing. Progression is a much broader concept. Block locks feel somewhat arbitrary to me and can actually limit the ways players progress, rather than support them.
What I find more engaging is natural progression driven by player motivation and immediate needs. At the start, you have access to basic resources - iron, nickel, and silicon - which, with the official balance mod, can be found almost anywhere on Verdure. Iron is the core material for most things, nickel enables atmospheric thrusters, and silicon unlocks batteries and cockpits. Simply gathering resources is already a progression.
Then you have the production chain. It is pretty simple and most definitely incomplete yet, but production blocks gates you fro accessing more advanced blocks. In essence, the game becomes a loop: you build grid A to obtain resource or capability B, which allows you to build grid C, and so on. That’s real progression, and honestly, it might already be enough.
Importantly, this progression isn’t strictly linear. It depends on your starting conditions, your decisions, and your playstyle. Everyone’s path is different.
Sector unlocks, on the other hand, feel like an additional gate tied to the contract system. It would be great to have alternative options—like paying a significant amount of credits to travel between sectors. That would make sense, since jumping should require energy. Or you could build your own jump drive and explore independently, without relying on NPCs at all—especially if you’re playing as a pirate or just prefer a different style.
Even if you follow the intended colonization path and complete contracts, I don’t think block unlocks are necessary. Different contracts already require different preparation, so you still go through the same loop: gather resources, build the right grids, complete the objective. There are many ways to reward players without forcing progression through artificial unlocks.
To summarize:
I'm not sure I'm a fan of the mission based progression for being too much of a time sink, but also find the test mod where you 'start with everything' to be kind of boring as well. I think my middle ground would be twofold, and I have old feedback (archived) that expresses me preferences. Specifically gain in progression should come from two things.
1) Grinding a block from 100% functional to learn how to build that block. This could in theory require more than one block as an option if you want to slow it down. Find a functional reactor, grind it to spare parts and you have learned how to make that reactor. If you find a damaged one, then you can learn a % of how to make one depending on how damaged it is. i.e. you would need to find two reactors at least 50% to learn 100% of the skill to make one yourself.
2) datapads should contain blueprints (for things like the grasshopper, or sledge, or...). If you find the blueprints for something, that includes all the into on how to guild the parts to put it together. i.e. If you didn't know how to make a large ion thruster yet and find a blueprint for a ion mining ship that includes one, the info on how to make it is on the datapad and is added to your skill tree. Likewise, missions that you keep being sent on as part of your colonization efforts might have a step 'fix the reactor", and as prep for the mission you are given a datapad with reactor blueprints on it. That way you gain the skill as part of doing the mission, as it's currently backwards in a way. 'go fix a reactor and as a reward you'll understand how reactors work' How did you fix it in the first place if you had no skill in working on reactors. The assumption being (to prevent just accepting the mission and never finishing it to gain the knowledge) to give a similar mission-based as now for the campaign, they give you the datapad, but it's encrypted and will unlock while you're doing the mission and once done, the datapad remains yours and unlocked. i.e. you now have your full reference on how to make them in your digital library. The point being that you could also find these as loot in unknown signals or wherever that could be bought, sold or traded on the market in a multiplayer game. "Hey I have an extra reactor 2 datapad, 10K credits it's yours."
In either case, you shouldn't be able to weld/repair something if you don't know how it works. Currently it seems like if you find some complex part on a derelict ship, you can just put your welder up and fix whatever like a magic welding wand if you have the parts. Your hero character was an engineer on a ship and thus should have some knowledge of its systems as a basic start, I'd just assume he had to abandon his library of technical manuals and blueprints on the ship and has to start over.
I'm not sure I'm a fan of the mission based progression for being too much of a time sink, but also find the test mod where you 'start with everything' to be kind of boring as well. I think my middle ground would be twofold, and I have old feedback (archived) that expresses me preferences. Specifically gain in progression should come from two things.
1) Grinding a block from 100% functional to learn how to build that block. This could in theory require more than one block as an option if you want to slow it down. Find a functional reactor, grind it to spare parts and you have learned how to make that reactor. If you find a damaged one, then you can learn a % of how to make one depending on how damaged it is. i.e. you would need to find two reactors at least 50% to learn 100% of the skill to make one yourself.
2) datapads should contain blueprints (for things like the grasshopper, or sledge, or...). If you find the blueprints for something, that includes all the into on how to guild the parts to put it together. i.e. If you didn't know how to make a large ion thruster yet and find a blueprint for a ion mining ship that includes one, the info on how to make it is on the datapad and is added to your skill tree. Likewise, missions that you keep being sent on as part of your colonization efforts might have a step 'fix the reactor", and as prep for the mission you are given a datapad with reactor blueprints on it. That way you gain the skill as part of doing the mission, as it's currently backwards in a way. 'go fix a reactor and as a reward you'll understand how reactors work' How did you fix it in the first place if you had no skill in working on reactors. The assumption being (to prevent just accepting the mission and never finishing it to gain the knowledge) to give a similar mission-based as now for the campaign, they give you the datapad, but it's encrypted and will unlock while you're doing the mission and once done, the datapad remains yours and unlocked. i.e. you now have your full reference on how to make them in your digital library. The point being that you could also find these as loot in unknown signals or wherever that could be bought, sold or traded on the market in a multiplayer game. "Hey I have an extra reactor 2 datapad, 10K credits it's yours."
In either case, you shouldn't be able to weld/repair something if you don't know how it works. Currently it seems like if you find some complex part on a derelict ship, you can just put your welder up and fix whatever like a magic welding wand if you have the parts. Your hero character was an engineer on a ship and thus should have some knowledge of its systems as a basic start, I'd just assume he had to abandon his library of technical manuals and blueprints on the ship and has to start over.
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