Production machines make what?

4Peace ●

Can’t agree more.

The Smelter isn’t really doing what its name suggests. And so far, there’s no larger variant of it. It seems like it’s meant to stay relevant throughout the entire game instead of becoming obsolete once you unlock the Refinery — but then why is it so small?

Right now, the production chain feels inverted:

The Smelter is the first production block, processing large volumes of raw ore into the most commonly used materials — yet it’s the smallest.
The Assembler, which handles medium-tier mass production, is bigger.
The Fabricator, making microchips is somehow the largest.

To me, it should almost be the other way around. The highest production volume in the entire chain flows through ore processing. The Smelter should logically be the largest or at least have a much bigger late-game variant. Alternatively, the Refinery could simply be expanded to produce everything the Smelter does.

About Ingots

Ingots are a very clean abstraction layer for gameplay.

Why do we have things like silver rods and lead bars, but not universal refined materials for the most basic resources like iron? We would benefit far more from having a consistent, unified refined material layer for common resources than from having specialized refined items for rarely used ones.

The Assembler and Fabricator already resemble advanced 3D printers. In real life, 3D printers use prepared filaments or powders — not raw ore. In game terms, ingots perfectly represent that abstraction.

Literally every other game uses this kind of abstraction because it helps:

Make production blocks simpler and single purpose
Simplifies balancing and inventory management
Makes the system intuitive for new players, because it is so commonly used

Any new player would understand “ingots” within seconds and instantly know what to do.

Right now, the system feels unclear and fragmented.

If there is a unique gameplay philosophy behind this new structure — that’s completely fine. But could you at least explain the intent from a gameplay perspective? Maybe you’re building something innovative and equally valid — but it would really help to understand the reasoning behind how these production blocks are currently designed (or planned to work).

And if the argument is “simplify things for new players,” then it’s just a big NO from me.

I’m not saying SE1 had a perfect system — it was far from perfect.

Refining times were greatly exaggerated. Even with plenty of power, you often had to build hundreds of refineries just to process certain ores within a reasonable timeframe for a single game session.

There was also no proper waste management. Instead, we had the harmful concept of all voxel materials converting into generic stone ore — which was almost useless and extremely frustrating. Players were often forced to build additional systems just to automatically eject stone during mining. That’s far from an ideal waste-management design.

Waste should be produced after refining, not during mining. And any leftover waste should either:

Still have some meaningful use, or
Be completely optional via game settings for players who don’t enjoy that mechanic

I could go on listing things that weren’t optimal in SE1.

But at the same time, many things were done very well. Completely skipping over what worked — instead of improving and iterating on it — feels wrong. It undermines the huge effort that went into building solid, tested systems that players already understood and appreciated.

Can’t agree more.

The Smelter isn’t really doing what its name suggests. And so far, there’s no larger variant of it. It seems like it’s meant to stay relevant throughout the entire game instead of becoming obsolete once you unlock the Refinery — but then why is it so small?

Right now, the production chain feels inverted:

The Smelter is the first production block, processing large volumes of raw ore into the most commonly used materials — yet it’s the smallest.
The Assembler, which handles medium-tier mass production, is bigger.
The Fabricator, making microchips is somehow the largest.

To me, it should almost be the other way around. The highest production volume in the entire chain flows through ore processing. The Smelter should logically be the largest or at least have a much bigger late-game variant. Alternatively, the Refinery could simply be expanded to produce everything the Smelter does.

About Ingots

Ingots are a very clean abstraction layer for gameplay.

Why do we have things like silver rods and lead bars, but not universal refined materials for the most basic resources like iron? We would benefit far more from having a consistent, unified refined material layer for common resources than from having specialized refined items for rarely used ones.

The Assembler and Fabricator already resemble advanced 3D printers. In real life, 3D printers use prepared filaments or powders — not raw ore. In game terms, ingots perfectly represent that abstraction.

Literally every other game uses this kind of abstraction because it helps:

Make production blocks simpler and single purpose
Simplifies balancing and inventory management
Makes the system intuitive for new players, because it is so commonly used

Any new player would understand “ingots” within seconds and instantly know what to do.

Right now, the system feels unclear and fragmented.

If there is a unique gameplay philosophy behind this new structure — that’s completely fine. But could you at least explain the intent from a gameplay perspective? Maybe you’re building something innovative and equally valid — but it would really help to understand the reasoning behind how these production blocks are currently designed (or planned to work).

And if the argument is “simplify things for new players,” then it’s just a big NO from me.

I’m not saying SE1 had a perfect system — it was far from perfect.

Refining times were greatly exaggerated. Even with plenty of power, you often had to build hundreds of refineries just to process certain ores within a reasonable timeframe for a single game session.

There was also no proper waste management. Instead, we had the harmful concept of all voxel materials converting into generic stone ore — which was almost useless and extremely frustrating. Players were often forced to build additional systems just to automatically eject stone during mining. That’s far from an ideal waste-management design.

Waste should be produced after refining, not during mining. And any leftover waste should either:

Still have some meaningful use, or
Be completely optional via game settings for players who don’t enjoy that mechanic

I could go on listing things that weren’t optimal in SE1.

But at the same time, many things were done very well. Completely skipping over what worked — instead of improving and iterating on it — feels wrong. It undermines the huge effort that went into building solid, tested systems that players already understood and appreciated.

1

Deon Beauchamp ●

Absolutely!

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1

4Peace ● ●

Can’t agree more.

The Smelter isn’t really doing what its name suggests. And so far, there’s no larger variant of it. It seems like it’s meant to stay relevant throughout the entire game instead of becoming obsolete once you unlock the Refinery — but then why is it so small?

Right now, the production chain feels inverted:

The Smelter is the first production block, processing large volumes of raw ore into the most commonly used materials — yet it’s the smallest.
The Assembler, which handles medium-tier mass production, is bigger.
The Fabricator, making microchips is somehow the largest.

To me, it should almost be the other way around. The highest production volume in the entire chain flows through ore processing. The Smelter should logically be the largest or at least have a much bigger late-game variant. Alternatively, the Refinery could simply be expanded to produce everything the Smelter does.

About Ingots

Ingots are a very clean abstraction layer for gameplay.

Why do we have things like silver rods and lead bars, but not universal refined materials for the most basic resources like iron? We would benefit far more from having a consistent, unified refined material layer for common resources than from having specialized refined items for rarely used ones.

The Assembler and Fabricator already resemble advanced 3D printers. In real life, 3D printers use prepared filaments or powders — not raw ore. In game terms, ingots perfectly represent that abstraction.

Literally every other game uses this kind of abstraction because it helps:

Make production blocks simpler and single purpose
Simplifies balancing and inventory management
Makes the system intuitive for new players, because it is so commonly used

Any new player would understand “ingots” within seconds and instantly know what to do.

Right now, the system feels unclear and fragmented.

If there is a unique gameplay philosophy behind this new structure — that’s completely fine. But could you at least explain the intent from a gameplay perspective? Maybe you’re building something innovative and equally valid — but it would really help to understand the reasoning behind how these production blocks are currently designed (or planned to work).

And if the argument is “simplify things for new players,” then it’s just a big NO from me.

I’m not saying SE1 had a perfect system — it was far from perfect.

Refining times were greatly exaggerated. Even with plenty of power, you often had to build hundreds of refineries just to process certain ores within a reasonable timeframe for a single game session.

There was also no proper waste management. Instead, we had the harmful concept of all voxel materials converting into generic stone ore — which was almost useless and extremely frustrating. Players were often forced to build additional systems just to automatically eject stone during mining. That’s far from an ideal waste-management design.

Waste should be produced after refining, not during mining. And any leftover waste should either:

Still have some meaningful use, or
Be completely optional via game settings for players who don’t enjoy that mechanic

I could go on listing things that weren’t optimal in SE1.

But at the same time, many things were done very well. Completely skipping over what worked — instead of improving and iterating on it — feels wrong. It undermines the huge effort that went into building solid, tested systems that players already understood and appreciated.

Can’t agree more.

The Smelter isn’t really doing what its name suggests. And so far, there’s no larger variant of it. It seems like it’s meant to stay relevant throughout the entire game instead of becoming obsolete once you unlock the Refinery — but then why is it so small?

Right now, the production chain feels inverted:

The Smelter is the first production block, processing large volumes of raw ore into the most commonly used materials — yet it’s the smallest.
The Assembler, which handles medium-tier mass production, is bigger.
The Fabricator, making microchips is somehow the largest.

To me, it should almost be the other way around. The highest production volume in the entire chain flows through ore processing. The Smelter should logically be the largest or at least have a much bigger late-game variant. Alternatively, the Refinery could simply be expanded to produce everything the Smelter does.

About Ingots

Ingots are a very clean abstraction layer for gameplay.

Why do we have things like silver rods and lead bars, but not universal refined materials for the most basic resources like iron? We would benefit far more from having a consistent, unified refined material layer for common resources than from having specialized refined items for rarely used ones.

The Assembler and Fabricator already resemble advanced 3D printers. In real life, 3D printers use prepared filaments or powders — not raw ore. In game terms, ingots perfectly represent that abstraction.

Literally every other game uses this kind of abstraction because it helps:

Make production blocks simpler and single purpose
Simplifies balancing and inventory management
Makes the system intuitive for new players, because it is so commonly used

Any new player would understand “ingots” within seconds and instantly know what to do.

Right now, the system feels unclear and fragmented.

If there is a unique gameplay philosophy behind this new structure — that’s completely fine. But could you at least explain the intent from a gameplay perspective? Maybe you’re building something innovative and equally valid — but it would really help to understand the reasoning behind how these production blocks are currently designed (or planned to work).

And if the argument is “simplify things for new players,” then it’s just a big NO from me.

I’m not saying SE1 had a perfect system — it was far from perfect.

Refining times were greatly exaggerated. Even with plenty of power, you often had to build hundreds of refineries just to process certain ores within a reasonable timeframe for a single game session.

There was also no proper waste management. Instead, we had the harmful concept of all voxel materials converting into generic stone ore — which was almost useless and extremely frustrating. Players were often forced to build additional systems just to automatically eject stone during mining. That’s far from an ideal waste-management design.

Waste should be produced after refining, not during mining. And any leftover waste should either:

Still have some meaningful use, or
Be completely optional via game settings for players who don’t enjoy that mechanic

I could go on listing things that weren’t optimal in SE1.

But at the same time, many things were done very well. Completely skipping over what worked — instead of improving and iterating on it — feels wrong. It undermines the huge effort that went into building solid, tested systems that players already understood and appreciated.

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1

Jrolla ●

Um, smelter is tier 1, refinery is tier 2, assembler is tier 3, fabricator is tier 4... Believe I listed them in proper order. You don't upgrade them, you build the higher tier block just like SE1... They all make different components so ALL are needed and not replaceable by upgraded block tier! You will know what you need to build because you won't be able to build tier 4 without tier 3 let alone have it unlocked... Not too complicated here! In the production tab you can toggle between production blocks, meaning it literally is simple to find what you need...

Ingots are obsolete, not even needed in reality if our society wasn't so inefficient. Like, why would you not smelt straight into molds of your product instead of a mold to make a block(which you need to re-smelt to put into your product mold)? An efficient society wouldn't waste their time or resources creating an unnecessary middle step, to create the exact same product at the end. Unless SE2 changes the weight ratios, ingots are literally pointless in game. As it is, the weight of the ore needed to make a component is the exact same as the final component. AKA there is no mass loss, making ingots "purified mass" non existent! Instead of ingots, you have a lot more components to work with.

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Deon Beauchamp ●

I hope, as the game is refined(pun), the production chain will improve and make sense in the future. In it's current form the production chain is a functional place holder. In no way does the current production chain make it feel like it is fun, interesting, intelligent, or will have a good influence on game strategies used by the players.

Honestly, if another game like SE appears with a production chain that has technical appeal, I would evaluate it for its worth and consider jumping ship if it measured up. I do not play other sandbox engineering games as nothing much stands up to the play hours that SE has given me, a good time had.

My problem is that I find myself looking for 'that' new game, I have hope for SE2 to be that game. For the most part Keen is doing an excellent job, the inclusion of the community of players in the development of the game by Keen is par to none.

If there is a need for expediency in having wider appeal, then there should also be an expediency in maintaining their most enduring player base and bringing back those long time players that have left due to frustration.

SE2 can not be a better game by being an easier game at the expense of depth. Ingots, scrap, stone and process waste are part of the depth that has not been re-included into SE2 from SE1 yet.

There are other issues beyond the scope of the original posted comment that I will refrain from mentioning. It is fair reason that not everyone can be satisfied, but the more SE2 tones down its feature appeal the easier it will be for the competition to overtake, and I do see that the competition is looking at SE, seeing a feature and saying 'we can do that'.

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Jrolla ●

Um ok, and why does SE2 require ingots? We don't require them now for jack squat and you're talking 60 years in our future when their ship launched, and 11,000ish years in our future when it arrived. So why does everything have to abide by your vision of engineering, when they aren't even from Earth in the first place? You had better demand jump drives, ion thrusters, and gravity gens be removed from SE, they don't exist in IRL... Scrap I will give you, the other examples are just your preference and familiarity. I don't need to see every single detail of the smelting process, you aren't collecting the other chemicals you need to smelt besides the ore, this isn't reality TV it's a freaking game. WTF is so much easier about ore turning into components instead of ingots hmm? Your argument on this one is literally stupid(unless SE2 corrects weight ratios through production). If 10kg of iron ore are needed to make 1 steel plate, and that 1 steel plate also weighs 10kg, why in the world would I waste my time making a 10kg ingot for no reason whatsoever? I'll make the steel plate, tyvm!

Curious how not bogging down your PC throwing useless stone out of your ship creating all the moving rocks, is something you miss? Literally, stone was the dumbest thing about SE1. Necessary to start, but once you built your first refining block practically useless and nothing but a waste of memory! If you bring up landscaping.... I'm not here to design roads, there's a game for that already!

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Deon Beauchamp ●

It sounds like creative mode would provide better game for you. IRL ion drives exist and gravity generation is being worked on. Jump drives are a sci-fi element and SE magic is often used where coding and overheads are otherwise expensive, but provide satisfactory game play. The game parts that I have previously mentioned were used and implemented in PC tech several generations back, no biggy with minimum SE2 PC spec.

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Jrolla ●

Um no, I strictly play survival. Creative is boring... Ion drives irl are useless lol, I wouldn't be claiming they exist when they can barely move a little satellite let alone a ship! Gravity generation is being worked on? There's literally no physics we know of that allows it besides a rotating centrifuge... What?

Edit: You have no idea what se2 is going to run like with all systems implemented without using ejectors on stone. It already has memory issues, locking up your memory and not releasing it causing stutters after long periods of play, cpus running at 75%not doing anything in game, among other issues. I'm not saying the optimization update likely near official release won't fix it or them all, but they do already exist without dumping stone non stop mining.

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Production machines make what?

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