Conveyor Types (Items, Power, Gas/Liquids)
With the new grid system allowing for much smaller blocks, I recommend different conveyor types. Instead of grid-wide mystical power syncing, it should be hooked up to a power line running up and down the ship. Rather than gases and liquids moving on a conveyor belt (?), they should travel through pipes. This significantly increases immersion, engineering (while still simple to learn!), and potentially battles (e.g., ensuring your power is looped for redundancy: "Reroute power through a secondary conduit!"). It makes much more sense and would be cool to see and understand that it's all actually connected instead of wireless power transfers (immersion breaking). Power conduits could be very small to facilitate this addition. With the upcoming liquids, it'd also be a bit weird not to have proper pipes for them to travel through.
If the power lines are too tedious for things like hooking up all your lights, it it could be improved by creating substations that power small blocks near them, while big items like reactors, refineries, and jump drives still require a direct plug-in
Looking forward to the release!
I like this feedback
Personally I’d like it, but it might me overwhelming for new players.
Personally I’d like it, but it might me overwhelming for new players.
Take a look at my post I think we have some similar ideas.
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/45187-grid-utilities-expansion
Take a look at my post I think we have some similar ideas.
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/45187-grid-utilities-expansion
I do kind of like the idea. It increases the complexity of ship design and adds additional engineering challenges. Not everyone will want this though. If anything, if they add a feature like this, they could make it a game option in the world settings so that players could choose whether they want it or not.
I do kind of like the idea. It increases the complexity of ship design and adds additional engineering challenges. Not everyone will want this though. If anything, if they add a feature like this, they could make it a game option in the world settings so that players could choose whether they want it or not.
If you have ever built anything really big in multiplaye in SE, you'd know how bad conveyors impact performance. And that this sounds like it will murder the pcu limit, and the performance of your games. If the game works anything like SE1 this will be a really bad idea since you need 3 times the amount of conveyors. Anything mothership sized would be doomed to fail. Since every conveyor end is a calculation for the simulation to deal with.
I'm also guessing It'd make every block check for a nearby power source, which again is another calculation.
You can already make separate piping in SE1 by just choosing where to connect it and by what size connector allows passage of what type of material.
It's a neat concept, but i wouldn't want this over better performance on bigger grids
If you have ever built anything really big in multiplaye in SE, you'd know how bad conveyors impact performance. And that this sounds like it will murder the pcu limit, and the performance of your games. If the game works anything like SE1 this will be a really bad idea since you need 3 times the amount of conveyors. Anything mothership sized would be doomed to fail. Since every conveyor end is a calculation for the simulation to deal with.
I'm also guessing It'd make every block check for a nearby power source, which again is another calculation.
You can already make separate piping in SE1 by just choosing where to connect it and by what size connector allows passage of what type of material.
It's a neat concept, but i wouldn't want this over better performance on bigger grids
Reposting my reply to performance concern: It would likely improve performance to have conveyors and pipes separated because now you have smaller networks to calculate attachment points for. Power handling may not even take more compute, unless your ship is damaged it will have one network which small items in proximity to a substation would inherit. They could be assigned the properties substationIDs[] and powerNetworks[]. When it comes time to check if it's powered, just check powerNetwork[] instead of gridPowerStatus or its current equivalent (no change in compute). There's only extra processing if you're ship is cut into more than one piece hitting a conduit, which is a pretty temporary state and will probably save more compute by shutting down half your systems. While overlapping substations might sound like a problem, you only have to check the first substationNetwork[] value during the 99.9999% that they're on the same network or first has power, and you only have to update the item's substation and network properties when one is built or destroyed, which is not often at all on the IRL or digital timescale.
Side note, if you're worried about having to wire a small ship, have no fear, 1 substation should cover it, or power generation blocks could be given their own power share radius. The power system could always be made optional in game settings.
Reposting my reply to performance concern: It would likely improve performance to have conveyors and pipes separated because now you have smaller networks to calculate attachment points for. Power handling may not even take more compute, unless your ship is damaged it will have one network which small items in proximity to a substation would inherit. They could be assigned the properties substationIDs[] and powerNetworks[]. When it comes time to check if it's powered, just check powerNetwork[] instead of gridPowerStatus or its current equivalent (no change in compute). There's only extra processing if you're ship is cut into more than one piece hitting a conduit, which is a pretty temporary state and will probably save more compute by shutting down half your systems. While overlapping substations might sound like a problem, you only have to check the first substationNetwork[] value during the 99.9999% that they're on the same network or first has power, and you only have to update the item's substation and network properties when one is built or destroyed, which is not often at all on the IRL or digital timescale.
Side note, if you're worried about having to wire a small ship, have no fear, 1 substation should cover it, or power generation blocks could be given their own power share radius. The power system could always be made optional in game settings.
It would be great if the electricity wasn't always automatically available across the entire grid, but instead you had to lay cables. With the new grid system, this shouldn't be a problem, at least from a structural point of view.
It would be great if the electricity wasn't always automatically available across the entire grid, but instead you had to lay cables. With the new grid system, this shouldn't be a problem, at least from a structural point of view.
Thats really cool. Will it have multiple attachment points to the blocks? Maybe there’s whole sections of the sides where you just plug in the cable on big blocks and it looks right automatically regardless of where as long as it makes sense like it’s not an open space.
Thats really cool. Will it have multiple attachment points to the blocks? Maybe there’s whole sections of the sides where you just plug in the cable on big blocks and it looks right automatically regardless of where as long as it makes sense like it’s not an open space.
In terms of calculation surely only the end points matter. You have a transfer network and a goods type and a rate of transmission. Networks can be disrupted by a block failure, but if source and destination still have an intact network path then no new calculation needs to occur until goods transmission is complete, or a new one is initiated. If the network is broken between source and destination then resource transfer operation becomes zero and would require no calculation until restoration occurs.
Alternatively, if conveyors and pipes 'leaked' this would require an additional calculation to determine flow.
As for power, use a power conduit that would assume multiple internal power pathways. Then use a power select control option to pick a power pathway system on each block that uses power, including the sources.
I would like to see broken power cables spark and be a hazard until correctly isolated.
Power, conveyors and pipes could run combined through a single block type when running through the length of a grid and break out into their singular form at junction points when needed.
In terms of calculation surely only the end points matter. You have a transfer network and a goods type and a rate of transmission. Networks can be disrupted by a block failure, but if source and destination still have an intact network path then no new calculation needs to occur until goods transmission is complete, or a new one is initiated. If the network is broken between source and destination then resource transfer operation becomes zero and would require no calculation until restoration occurs.
Alternatively, if conveyors and pipes 'leaked' this would require an additional calculation to determine flow.
As for power, use a power conduit that would assume multiple internal power pathways. Then use a power select control option to pick a power pathway system on each block that uses power, including the sources.
I would like to see broken power cables spark and be a hazard until correctly isolated.
Power, conveyors and pipes could run combined through a single block type when running through the length of a grid and break out into their singular form at junction points when needed.
I can't reply directly to your addon comment, so I will leave it here;
I like the idea, I really do, but this will complicate the logic check for power on grids. In SE it's a simple have power enough power -- work, not enough power -- don't work.
With your proposal, first it's going to have to check for a connected network before it checks to see if there's enough power. You are doubling the number of checks on the power grid.
I can't reply directly to your addon comment, so I will leave it here;
I like the idea, I really do, but this will complicate the logic check for power on grids. In SE it's a simple have power enough power -- work, not enough power -- don't work.
With your proposal, first it's going to have to check for a connected network before it checks to see if there's enough power. You are doubling the number of checks on the power grid.
Having 20cm conveyor pipes purely for gases would be excellent, making fuel and oxygen lines much easier to protect and armour due to their reduced cross-section, but 50cm is fine too, so long as we have some way of restricting conveyor connections to only gases, perhaps even specific gases.
Having 20cm conveyor pipes purely for gases would be excellent, making fuel and oxygen lines much easier to protect and armour due to their reduced cross-section, but 50cm is fine too, so long as we have some way of restricting conveyor connections to only gases, perhaps even specific gases.
Yeah thats a big NO. Doing this will make your grid alot larger then it needs to be because you have conveyor power, liquids and gas threw various conveyors. Dont RP this too much guys. Keep it simple. This is not a build your grid and put it on a display kinda simulator. While the idea might be cool i dont see it being a thing simply because it would be a logistical nightmare. 1 conveyor type for all is the only thing you need. "Ohh cool showcasing my nightmare cool ship with pipes going all over the place but is completly dead in the water when fired on" You would have to make so many redundencies that the power, gas, liquid checks would go ham on the performance. But i can see it being a thing. But i would suggest to not implement it into the base game but rather as a possible mod. Someone will mod it.
Yeah thats a big NO. Doing this will make your grid alot larger then it needs to be because you have conveyor power, liquids and gas threw various conveyors. Dont RP this too much guys. Keep it simple. This is not a build your grid and put it on a display kinda simulator. While the idea might be cool i dont see it being a thing simply because it would be a logistical nightmare. 1 conveyor type for all is the only thing you need. "Ohh cool showcasing my nightmare cool ship with pipes going all over the place but is completly dead in the water when fired on" You would have to make so many redundencies that the power, gas, liquid checks would go ham on the performance. But i can see it being a thing. But i would suggest to not implement it into the base game but rather as a possible mod. Someone will mod it.
Honestly I'm down for Conveyors. I can live with liquid conduits because it's just different. Running power conduits sounds like a pain/chore. Especially with the capital ships I've built. OMG. That would be nuts.
Honestly I'm down for Conveyors. I can live with liquid conduits because it's just different. Running power conduits sounds like a pain/chore. Especially with the capital ships I've built. OMG. That would be nuts.
I'm in with the say small gas pipes and say different size conveyers keep them separate more realistic.
I'm in with the say small gas pipes and say different size conveyers keep them separate more realistic.
I kind of like the idea of power conduits, but with a different approach. The decorative 0.25m blocks would be an ideal block size. They would be a booster ?meta, to various functional blocks, Like providing extra power to a thruster, or boosting some sorta of efficiency meta in refineries, fast charging battery bank, or allow High power surge from battery bank to boost recharge to hyper-drive. Separating liquids from solids ... Using separate piping systems for liquid\gases and solid items would be cool, but there should also be blocks the can handle combinations of such systems. So one could make like a core ship system that feeds sub-systems..
I kind of like the idea of power conduits, but with a different approach. The decorative 0.25m blocks would be an ideal block size. They would be a booster ?meta, to various functional blocks, Like providing extra power to a thruster, or boosting some sorta of efficiency meta in refineries, fast charging battery bank, or allow High power surge from battery bank to boost recharge to hyper-drive. Separating liquids from solids ... Using separate piping systems for liquid\gases and solid items would be cool, but there should also be blocks the can handle combinations of such systems. So one could make like a core ship system that feeds sub-systems..
This sounds like a pain in the ass, I'm sorry. Individually wiring every powered block on a ship? That sounds insane. Specific pipes for liquids and gas doesn't sound too bad, but the power would make the game a chore to play and less fun to make things in. If you really want power conduits, I think building fake ones for aesthetic purposes should be enough.
This sounds like a pain in the ass, I'm sorry. Individually wiring every powered block on a ship? That sounds insane. Specific pipes for liquids and gas doesn't sound too bad, but the power would make the game a chore to play and less fun to make things in. If you really want power conduits, I think building fake ones for aesthetic purposes should be enough.
I have similar opinions on power cables as the other fellas here, but I had a thought about shutoff valves. I figure when thrusters are blown away by Klang, I'd prefer to not hemorrhage hydrogen until I repair the leak. I figure if liquids are going to be added, then we can suck them up and spit them out or feed equipment as necessary; that being said I also figure pipes can inadvertently spit where you don't intend them to as well. It would punish poorly designed thruster systems or systems too compact for valves. Just spitballing
I have similar opinions on power cables as the other fellas here, but I had a thought about shutoff valves. I figure when thrusters are blown away by Klang, I'd prefer to not hemorrhage hydrogen until I repair the leak. I figure if liquids are going to be added, then we can suck them up and spit them out or feed equipment as necessary; that being said I also figure pipes can inadvertently spit where you don't intend them to as well. It would punish poorly designed thruster systems or systems too compact for valves. Just spitballing
What's the difference between these specialised conveyors you want and current conveyors plus a sorter? I say 'no thank you' to this idea simply because there's too much other stuff to spend time and attention on.
What's the difference between these specialised conveyors you want and current conveyors plus a sorter? I say 'no thank you' to this idea simply because there's too much other stuff to spend time and attention on.
Okay, second attempt at this reply!
I think that the proposal here would just add unneeded tedium and detail to builds. When applied to massive ships and stations I think it would be a game-killer, or at least a fun killer.
An alternative proposal is to have dedicated Power Distribution (PD) blocks that you can place which would have an area of effect for providing power to blocks. In addition, existing logistics blocks (conveyors, sorters, etc) would have an area of effect for power distribution. The PDs would have the functionality to designate power priority so that critical areas and systems would get power in case of damage, mismanagement, or changing conditions. Perhaps such blocks could have upgrades allowing for more power output, local power storage (keep critical areas powered even if all else fails), or a larger range.
An idea I might flesh out more and submit!
Okay, second attempt at this reply!
I think that the proposal here would just add unneeded tedium and detail to builds. When applied to massive ships and stations I think it would be a game-killer, or at least a fun killer.
An alternative proposal is to have dedicated Power Distribution (PD) blocks that you can place which would have an area of effect for providing power to blocks. In addition, existing logistics blocks (conveyors, sorters, etc) would have an area of effect for power distribution. The PDs would have the functionality to designate power priority so that critical areas and systems would get power in case of damage, mismanagement, or changing conditions. Perhaps such blocks could have upgrades allowing for more power output, local power storage (keep critical areas powered even if all else fails), or a larger range.
An idea I might flesh out more and submit!
I'm in favor of this. One thing that mildly annoyed me in Space Engineers was during combat I could eviscerate 70% of a ship, but because it had one hidden-away reactor somewhere and used ion thrusters it could still keep maneuvering and firing. It made it very difficult to disable and seize a ship - they almost always ended up as raw scrap metal.
I think it would make sense to have power lines to provide power over a long distance and substations which can provide power within a certain radius locally.
I'm in favor of this. One thing that mildly annoyed me in Space Engineers was during combat I could eviscerate 70% of a ship, but because it had one hidden-away reactor somewhere and used ion thrusters it could still keep maneuvering and firing. It made it very difficult to disable and seize a ship - they almost always ended up as raw scrap metal.
I think it would make sense to have power lines to provide power over a long distance and substations which can provide power within a certain radius locally.
I don't particularly want three types of conveyance (solid, liquid/gas, power), where those blocks want to occupy the same space. I have played a lot of Satisfactory, and this can be a real pain.
I don't particularly want three types of conveyance (solid, liquid/gas, power), where those blocks want to occupy the same space. I have played a lot of Satisfactory, and this can be a real pain.
In my opinion this type of stuff should be a mod.
In my opinion this type of stuff should be a mod.
Like Eddie I would not like those power lines flooding my interior or on ships without that .. omg, even worse.
BUT, the idea that power does not magically spread makes sense. Power could be distributed by the conveyors OR specialized blocks. That would mean that it can be destructed and that ION Thrusters need to be "connected".
Power lines as a mod for those that need it, is the other Idea I like.
Like Eddie I would not like those power lines flooding my interior or on ships without that .. omg, even worse.
BUT, the idea that power does not magically spread makes sense. Power could be distributed by the conveyors OR specialized blocks. That would mean that it can be destructed and that ION Thrusters need to be "connected".
Power lines as a mod for those that need it, is the other Idea I like.
Electric cables as mods don't make sense. that would just be decoration. Because if it's just a mod, the power is still transmitted by the entire grid and everything else is decoration. Then you can save yourself the trouble of voting and commenting here.
Sorry, but those who are against electric cables. SE2 without the grid size restriction offers so many opportunities for the developers to make things better right from the start. But you're clinging to the old and closing yourselves off to cool ideas. It's Engineers. Not arcade and fast-forward. If I don't have time to lay or build something like that, etc., then I'll look for another game.
Electric cables as mods don't make sense. that would just be decoration. Because if it's just a mod, the power is still transmitted by the entire grid and everything else is decoration. Then you can save yourself the trouble of voting and commenting here.
Sorry, but those who are against electric cables. SE2 without the grid size restriction offers so many opportunities for the developers to make things better right from the start. But you're clinging to the old and closing yourselves off to cool ideas. It's Engineers. Not arcade and fast-forward. If I don't have time to lay or build something like that, etc., then I'll look for another game.
It is a concept that could be done in a few ways more ways then I have thoughts of.
My thought that could make the electric part of this idea work would be instead of running wires all over the place the blocks could transmit electricity.
Each power block could be able to power so many blocks away from the block itself. Could also include substations which would allow the power to go farther from the area of a power supply block, this I think might be a mid complex system that would allow a degree of realism but also a more simple system then having to connect everything via power lines.
Another idea is similar to the above but the substations and large systems (jump drive, refinery, etc) needing to be connected via power conduit blocks which could be like a normal block that is design to look like power cable running through it and as long as the substation/large systems are on the conduit block it would be powered smaller systems would run like my earlier idea and would be powered by the power supply block/substation as long as it is so many blocks away from it.
One thing I would suggest instead the power going down completely when the demand goes to high the system should start shutting down phases until it balances out.
Idea Shut Down Phases
Phase 1: Any items that be considered High Power Consumption
Phase 2: Any items that be considered Mid Power Consumption
Phase 3: Any items part of offense system (Attacking Blocks)
Phase 4: Any items part of the defense system (Blocks used to defend from attacks)
Phase 5: Life Support Systems
Phase 6: Total Power Failure (Could be a fun feature that could have a on off feature in the world but with total power failure that any reactors would lose their ability to cool themselves and essentially go in to meltdown and explode.)
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Now dealing with the conveyor system now I do think its not realistic that items and gas passes through the same conveyor but like stated here how would it effect performance but could also still be used in a way.
While the basic thought is that you would need to different conveyors one for items and one for gas which would make the designs needing to have much more conveyors.
My thought on this is just change the design of the block to look like a conveyor and pipe with it
It is a concept that could be done in a few ways more ways then I have thoughts of.
My thought that could make the electric part of this idea work would be instead of running wires all over the place the blocks could transmit electricity.
Each power block could be able to power so many blocks away from the block itself. Could also include substations which would allow the power to go farther from the area of a power supply block, this I think might be a mid complex system that would allow a degree of realism but also a more simple system then having to connect everything via power lines.
Another idea is similar to the above but the substations and large systems (jump drive, refinery, etc) needing to be connected via power conduit blocks which could be like a normal block that is design to look like power cable running through it and as long as the substation/large systems are on the conduit block it would be powered smaller systems would run like my earlier idea and would be powered by the power supply block/substation as long as it is so many blocks away from it.
One thing I would suggest instead the power going down completely when the demand goes to high the system should start shutting down phases until it balances out.
Idea Shut Down Phases
Phase 1: Any items that be considered High Power Consumption
Phase 2: Any items that be considered Mid Power Consumption
Phase 3: Any items part of offense system (Attacking Blocks)
Phase 4: Any items part of the defense system (Blocks used to defend from attacks)
Phase 5: Life Support Systems
Phase 6: Total Power Failure (Could be a fun feature that could have a on off feature in the world but with total power failure that any reactors would lose their ability to cool themselves and essentially go in to meltdown and explode.)
-------------------------------------
Now dealing with the conveyor system now I do think its not realistic that items and gas passes through the same conveyor but like stated here how would it effect performance but could also still be used in a way.
While the basic thought is that you would need to different conveyors one for items and one for gas which would make the designs needing to have much more conveyors.
My thought on this is just change the design of the block to look like a conveyor and pipe with it
Well, you can also lay cables in walls in SE2. Thanks to the new grid system, I don't lose any space, etc. I don't think it makes building any more complicated.
I find it more complicated in SE1 because you don't have the same freedom in terms of grid technology as you do in SE2.
But you've already seen in SE1 that many people want to keep it simple. Even when constructing ships or bases.
You can see in 90% of all blueprints that landing spots on bases, ships, etc. are not suitable for playing with the "engine damage on" option. Or everything in a container. That's always a shame. I always rebuild these things. Engine-proof armor on landing spots. Complex cargo system with sorters and ingots, components, ores, ice in their own system and a perfect circuit, etc.
Most people either have no idea how or simply don't want to deal with the grid size restrictions.
In SE2 all these restrictions would be history. Building would be even more awesome and realistic.
And what do people want instead? It should be exactly like in SE1 and ideally even faster and less complex.
Sorry but please go play Minecraft.
SE (1/2) is about being creative. About constructing etc.
Well, you can also lay cables in walls in SE2. Thanks to the new grid system, I don't lose any space, etc. I don't think it makes building any more complicated.
I find it more complicated in SE1 because you don't have the same freedom in terms of grid technology as you do in SE2.
But you've already seen in SE1 that many people want to keep it simple. Even when constructing ships or bases.
You can see in 90% of all blueprints that landing spots on bases, ships, etc. are not suitable for playing with the "engine damage on" option. Or everything in a container. That's always a shame. I always rebuild these things. Engine-proof armor on landing spots. Complex cargo system with sorters and ingots, components, ores, ice in their own system and a perfect circuit, etc.
Most people either have no idea how or simply don't want to deal with the grid size restrictions.
In SE2 all these restrictions would be history. Building would be even more awesome and realistic.
And what do people want instead? It should be exactly like in SE1 and ideally even faster and less complex.
Sorry but please go play Minecraft.
SE (1/2) is about being creative. About constructing etc.
PVE'rs/RPrs want complicated RP cables, power, gas and luquid conveyors. From a pvp standpoint its not really viable too many redundencies that would prob affect performance. Sure its an engineering game. But that doesnt mean every piece on the grid. Being creative isent limited to how conveyoring/power/gas/liquids work. Conveyoring or cabling everything on your grid is a tedious task when its being split into 4 parts. And the performance side of checking conveyor paths is a performance draw allready. And then doing it 4 times over for anything that uses power, liquid, gas or inventories.
Sorry but go play some Starbase instead or Storm works.
Keep it simple clean and performance friendly and spend more time on the actual estetics of the grid. Honestly i prob wouldnt play the game if things become overly tedious.
PVE'rs/RPrs want complicated RP cables, power, gas and luquid conveyors. From a pvp standpoint its not really viable too many redundencies that would prob affect performance. Sure its an engineering game. But that doesnt mean every piece on the grid. Being creative isent limited to how conveyoring/power/gas/liquids work. Conveyoring or cabling everything on your grid is a tedious task when its being split into 4 parts. And the performance side of checking conveyor paths is a performance draw allready. And then doing it 4 times over for anything that uses power, liquid, gas or inventories.
Sorry but go play some Starbase instead or Storm works.
Keep it simple clean and performance friendly and spend more time on the actual estetics of the grid. Honestly i prob wouldnt play the game if things become overly tedious.
The only real way i see this happening so its fair to all is having the standard conveyors that does all and then also specific type conveyors. And also then like a toggle on/off for either in the world settings for example. So everyone gets what they want no matter how many is for and against. The thing is tho if the conveyor system they allready have in place would require a major overhaul to make this possible considering the conveor port size of existing blocks in the game that would require some adjustments also. But the conveyor system itself will decide if its even doable and justified to do so. Or if its just easier to leave it up to the modders to aquire this. Modding seems like the better way because then its induvidually selected. Hence the modding suggestion. The things is tho having it as a mod will also make it more scaleable and configureable while also being viable for future additions. Majority will find induvidually conveyoring or cabling everything tedious tho. And dont come with some BS about "ohh its an engineering game". Is engineering specific to the conveyor system alone? well ofc not. So ill leave it at that.
The only real way i see this happening so its fair to all is having the standard conveyors that does all and then also specific type conveyors. And also then like a toggle on/off for either in the world settings for example. So everyone gets what they want no matter how many is for and against. The thing is tho if the conveyor system they allready have in place would require a major overhaul to make this possible considering the conveor port size of existing blocks in the game that would require some adjustments also. But the conveyor system itself will decide if its even doable and justified to do so. Or if its just easier to leave it up to the modders to aquire this. Modding seems like the better way because then its induvidually selected. Hence the modding suggestion. The things is tho having it as a mod will also make it more scaleable and configureable while also being viable for future additions. Majority will find induvidually conveyoring or cabling everything tedious tho. And dont come with some BS about "ohh its an engineering game". Is engineering specific to the conveyor system alone? well ofc not. So ill leave it at that.
For a game calling itself "Space ENGINEERS" it's lacking in any actual form of engineering. I would love deeper and more complex mechanics like OP suggests!
For a game calling itself "Space ENGINEERS" it's lacking in any actual form of engineering. I would love deeper and more complex mechanics like OP suggests!
There is so much text to read here now and some of the words a little fiery.
So I am ready for the flak.
This is only a compromise suggestion it will not bring joy to all.
It appears many people are OK with some separation in resource supply, but power has been more of a challenge.
If power was divided into two forms high and low.
Low power would continue to run through the grid as it does in SE1, but it would be limited to lighting, LCDs, vending machines, doors, and all of the items associated with what was small grid.
High power would be required on large functional items, like the large refinery, assembler, gravity gen, large reactor, 5x5 wheels, large antenna, large gyro, large ion thrusters sizes 3 and 4, gates, hanger doors and O2 generator.
And here is the big one.
All conveyors will carry high power regardless of build state.
If conveyor ports are joined high power is passed.
Hangar doors? Discuss
Where no obvious connection is available I suggest that the neon tubes are used to carry high power, and that more of the access panels have a functional role.
The blocks that could be an issue would be the large piston, large hinge, and large rotor, the mech builders have a hard enough time as it is. Discuss this.
What this compromise does not do is provide complexity through block building.
As a solution to this is that power management could run through an optional menu panel where electrical usage is represented symbolically in a similar fashion to the control systems used by power companies. Power flows, relays, and breaker points and a map of the connections could be controlled and fault points high lighted for engineers to be sent out on repair. This control menu panel would be arranged by the engineer it would be like building a puzzle with tracks, switches, labels and indicators.
This will result in virtually no extra spaghetti, may be a little.
None of this is perfect.
There are many blocks that I have not mentioned and I leave you to decide their fate, if you believe that this is a functioning workaround.
There is so much text to read here now and some of the words a little fiery.
So I am ready for the flak.
This is only a compromise suggestion it will not bring joy to all.
It appears many people are OK with some separation in resource supply, but power has been more of a challenge.
If power was divided into two forms high and low.
Low power would continue to run through the grid as it does in SE1, but it would be limited to lighting, LCDs, vending machines, doors, and all of the items associated with what was small grid.
High power would be required on large functional items, like the large refinery, assembler, gravity gen, large reactor, 5x5 wheels, large antenna, large gyro, large ion thrusters sizes 3 and 4, gates, hanger doors and O2 generator.
And here is the big one.
All conveyors will carry high power regardless of build state.
If conveyor ports are joined high power is passed.
Hangar doors? Discuss
Where no obvious connection is available I suggest that the neon tubes are used to carry high power, and that more of the access panels have a functional role.
The blocks that could be an issue would be the large piston, large hinge, and large rotor, the mech builders have a hard enough time as it is. Discuss this.
What this compromise does not do is provide complexity through block building.
As a solution to this is that power management could run through an optional menu panel where electrical usage is represented symbolically in a similar fashion to the control systems used by power companies. Power flows, relays, and breaker points and a map of the connections could be controlled and fault points high lighted for engineers to be sent out on repair. This control menu panel would be arranged by the engineer it would be like building a puzzle with tracks, switches, labels and indicators.
This will result in virtually no extra spaghetti, may be a little.
None of this is perfect.
There are many blocks that I have not mentioned and I leave you to decide their fate, if you believe that this is a functioning workaround.
I would like to keep it as simple as possible.
0,25 conveyor - Gas, Liquid, small amunition
0,5 conveyor - 0,25 + smal grid SE1
1 conveyor - 0,5 + larg grid SE1
Power line - connect Power station or some power cluster of battery pack to supply energy weapons
OR
Make energy weapon dependant to connected battery pack as power buffer to increase weapon damage or fire rate.
Let be energy weapon modular. Just Rod connected to hinge with some battery buffer.
I would like to keep it as simple as possible.
0,25 conveyor - Gas, Liquid, small amunition
0,5 conveyor - 0,25 + smal grid SE1
1 conveyor - 0,5 + larg grid SE1
Power line - connect Power station or some power cluster of battery pack to supply energy weapons
OR
Make energy weapon dependant to connected battery pack as power buffer to increase weapon damage or fire rate.
Let be energy weapon modular. Just Rod connected to hinge with some battery buffer.
There's been few suggestions I wanted to vote 'do not want' so badly. Do not add this, do not consider this.
There's been few suggestions I wanted to vote 'do not want' so badly. Do not add this, do not consider this.
Yes please. I really want this. I want some parts of my ship to fail or have a power outage in a battle, or the possibility to reroute power if I don't have enough for all systems without having to turn of all specific blocks.
Even if it doesn't get added in game, I would try to make a mod and hope the new modding system allows enough access for it.
And for those that don't want it, why not make a world toggle like for programmable blocks, "use power distribution" and "unified resource distribution"
those would make the blocks like power cables and gas/liquid pipes just into pure deco blocks.
Yes please. I really want this. I want some parts of my ship to fail or have a power outage in a battle, or the possibility to reroute power if I don't have enough for all systems without having to turn of all specific blocks.
Even if it doesn't get added in game, I would try to make a mod and hope the new modding system allows enough access for it.
And for those that don't want it, why not make a world toggle like for programmable blocks, "use power distribution" and "unified resource distribution"
those would make the blocks like power cables and gas/liquid pipes just into pure deco blocks.
Rather than dedicated seperated types of conveyers, I would just make it so that you set the one connected net of converys to a certain filter that it can pass and that is it, then you get blocks that work as seperators to another net with another filter that way, you do not need 1 mio blocks for converys all doing basiclly the same but for something else. visual different types like round and cornered would be enough for me.
Rather than dedicated seperated types of conveyers, I would just make it so that you set the one connected net of converys to a certain filter that it can pass and that is it, then you get blocks that work as seperators to another net with another filter that way, you do not need 1 mio blocks for converys all doing basiclly the same but for something else. visual different types like round and cornered would be enough for me.
So every time I want to put a light, button, door, screen, etc on my build I now have to dedicate a full row of blocks to just power the device? Cool, no thanks. A small power cable could easily be "imaginarily" integrated into armor blocks so I see no reason for power cables.
Gas/liquid lines would be interesting though, but only if they could scale down to the size of detail blocks. Perhaps with max flow rates based on the diameter of line and the potential to leak if a line breaks.
So every time I want to put a light, button, door, screen, etc on my build I now have to dedicate a full row of blocks to just power the device? Cool, no thanks. A small power cable could easily be "imaginarily" integrated into armor blocks so I see no reason for power cables.
Gas/liquid lines would be interesting though, but only if they could scale down to the size of detail blocks. Perhaps with max flow rates based on the diameter of line and the potential to leak if a line breaks.
A more balanced way to do this could be to make "specialized" network that would have better performance.
Plain conveyors behave as they used to. Grids transmit power by default.
Some 25cm "power grid" blocks between a power source and a power consuming block could make it use 25% less power, or negate the loss when charging batteries and such.
Some 25cm Oxygen/Hydrogen pipes could be available for small consumers like cockpits, medical stations, smaller air vents or such.
And then the previous small conveyor / large conveyor item size separation like we had in small grids.
That'd make more interesting designs for ships, where optimisations could be added.
Having some "isolator" blocks would be nice too, for power. That way, it'd be doable to have a self-contained refining/assembling system within a grid that could run off it's own power source, and just shut off when out of power without draining the whole grid. Or a life support-backed isolated area with it's own battery/reactor that wouldn't die if the rest of the ship ran out.
A more balanced way to do this could be to make "specialized" network that would have better performance.
Plain conveyors behave as they used to. Grids transmit power by default.
Some 25cm "power grid" blocks between a power source and a power consuming block could make it use 25% less power, or negate the loss when charging batteries and such.
Some 25cm Oxygen/Hydrogen pipes could be available for small consumers like cockpits, medical stations, smaller air vents or such.
And then the previous small conveyor / large conveyor item size separation like we had in small grids.
That'd make more interesting designs for ships, where optimisations could be added.
Having some "isolator" blocks would be nice too, for power. That way, it'd be doable to have a self-contained refining/assembling system within a grid that could run off it's own power source, and just shut off when out of power without draining the whole grid. Or a life support-backed isolated area with it's own battery/reactor that wouldn't die if the rest of the ship ran out.
Hard disagree.
I played Starbase for a while which required dedicated networks for power, gas etc. On the surface it seemed like an immersive and fun idea, but after a while it became an absolute chore and really got in the way of enjoying the game and building aspect. That might just be my personal take, but I forsee this becoming a nuisance rather than a gameplay addition.
This feels like it could be nice as an opt-in mod, but I really don't think it would benefit the base game.
Hard disagree.
I played Starbase for a while which required dedicated networks for power, gas etc. On the surface it seemed like an immersive and fun idea, but after a while it became an absolute chore and really got in the way of enjoying the game and building aspect. That might just be my personal take, but I forsee this becoming a nuisance rather than a gameplay addition.
This feels like it could be nice as an opt-in mod, but I really don't think it would benefit the base game.
I like gas and liquid pipes but they should be smaller than conveyors so they are easier to put and don't take too much room.
I like gas and liquid pipes but they should be smaller than conveyors so they are easier to put and don't take too much room.
... And how would then conveyor a subgrid with more than one sort of thing? Special multi-type rotors/hinges/pistons? This idea doesn't work.
... And how would then conveyor a subgrid with more than one sort of thing? Special multi-type rotors/hinges/pistons? This idea doesn't work.
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