Better slope blocks

Balmung shared this feedback 15 months ago
Planned

We all know if from SE1: if you want different angles of slopes you need for every peace a extra block, which, with slope block mods, ends up quickly with dozens or hundreds of armor blocks, because you also need transitions.

I was hoping SE2 would have a better solution for it, but we see the same kind of slope blocks already again in the picture which shows all SE2 blocks at early access start.


So what I want to know: are they temporary or will we need to deal again with that?


I hoped a bit we would have some kind of tools like Dual Universe had (YouTube: Dual Universe - Vertex Precision Tool), but dumped down and limited to the unified grid system sizes. This would give you more control without the hassle of finding the right block or even having the right block.

Best Answer
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The UGS is great and allows for easy combination of different block sizes. But when it comes to slopes, we still only have two options: 1x1 and 1x2 slopes. This still limits the shapes of ships we can build.


One workaround is using rotors and hinges. This allows for any angle and, in some cases, simplifies building since you often don’t need slopes or transition blocks at all. But it’s far from ideal. Even if we had a “rigidify” option (for mechanical blocks) to lock subgrids in place, they would still remain subgrids, with all the downsides related to physics simulation and control of thrusters, gyros, and other systems. On top of that, you often end up with large sections of a ship attached at just a few points, making the design more fragile and less practical for survival.

Another option is simply adding more slope blocks, like 3x1 or 5x1. But even working with 1x1 and 2x1 slopes and their transitions is already tedious. Adding more variants would only increase complexity and explode G menu. Something has to change in the building tools to reduce this burden. Even after thousands of hours (In SE1 and SE2), building complex shapes is still a slow and sometimes frustrating process.

At the same time, the UGS and physics system likely benefit from keeping blocks “atomic.” In other words, a 2x1 slope should still be made from two 1x1 blocks, a 1x3 slope from three blocks, and so on. We could add all these variations and transitions, but the building process should not require placing them one by one.

Instead, we could have a small set of basic shapes in the toolbar: full block, slope, transition, rounded block, etc. From there, you could drag along a desired axis to define a larger shape. This would not create a new type of block, but the game would automatically fill the shape using available 1x1 (armor) pieces. Some shapes would still be impossible due to limitations of available pieces, but you would gain much more flexibility and speed without dealing with individual blocks.

These shapes should also remain editable. If you define a 3x1x5 slope, you should be able to select it later and adjust its size without rebuilding everything. This would make iteration much easier, especially when you realize you want to tweak proportions after building around it. Shapes could be highlighted differently and selecting them would allow modifications without removing them entirely.

As for additional tools, there could be helpers for creating more complex shapes like cylinders, spheres, toruses, pyramids, or circular segments. You could define starter point and parameters like size or radius and generate the shape. These should remain selectable and editable until you “apply” them. If shapes intersect, the conflicts could simply be highlighted, and resolved with the blocks from the shape you apply first.


You should also be able to select multiple blocks or shapes and change their properties in bulk. For example, selecting armor blocks and switching from light to heavy armor, or filtering blocks by type, color, or texture and applying changes to all of them. This would make iteration much faster and improve the creative workflow significantly.


The conclusion here:

  • The UGS remains unchanged at its core, with no impact on engine systems.
  • What we add is a logical UI/UX layer that helps place multiple blocks at once while the game automatically selects and orients the correct atomic pieces.
  • Larger shapes remain editable until you choose to apply them and resolve intersections.
  • You can select one or multiple blocks (using filters) and apply changes in bulk.

Replies (4)

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8

Also a system like in Starship Evo could be used, limited to the 25, 50, 250cm grid size in SE2.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34pcnwRSXNI

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5

I believe the video demonstrates that Starship Evo allows you to 'stretch' a 1x1 corner block to be a 1xn block instead of having 1x2, 1x3, 1x4, etc. blocks?

This approach sounds good, assuming survival material costs are proportional to armour block volume.

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3

Not only, you could also do 2x3x1 or 3x4x2 blocks and many other that way, the limits may be the 250x250x250mm grid.


Material cost is only math, that shouldn't be difficult to make. Maybe making the construction process looking good is the more complicated one. But we anyway don't know yet how that process will look like in SE2. Maybe also the deconstruction could be more complicated, but that can only answer Keen as well.


But it would help a lot to have a lot more freedom in building ships and reduce the need for Mod blocks.

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3

I think on top of just slopes we also need "stretchable" corner/tip blocks and windows to complete the transitions. I was hoping the new building system would allow for more control over the dimension of blocks. Stretching the block like what is in Starship Evo is a good idea and it aligns with the new way of building where 1 block could be used for different dimensions (25,50,250cm). I just hope vanilla long slopes is a thing in SE2 so we can build ships in a more aerodynamic shape rather than building long slope surfaces with combinations of flat and slope blocks that give a choppy look.

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4

Dynamic armor and slopes would be an absolute gamechanger!

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4

I like the idea of combining the starship evo click and drag build method with the UGS, so when you release your mouse button it'll generate however many blocks should occupy the space. Would allow for a massive variety of hull shapes

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3

I clearly see the use for this tool, and depending on its UX it would be a great benefit. But at the same time it also goes kind of against the pure block approach of SE. Gets my vote for sure.

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3

@Alex: yeah, I can understand that argument about block aesthetics of SE, it is a mixed bag. But if you want to build blocky, you still can even with such a tool.

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1

I like the idea. For implementation in the UI, we have currently two ways to select items in the build hot bar: selecting them with the number keys or scrolling through with the mouse wheel. One of those is redundant, so I suggest repurposing the mouse wheel for stretching the block. You would then select a basic block shape and stretch it with the mouse wheel to a length anywhere between 1 and 4 (or whatever you want as maximum length).

For armor blocks, I can see how automatic calculation of mass per block could work. It could be surface area multiplied by a mass/area constant depending on armor type, reflecting the thickness of the armor. Optionally with additional mass/volume to represent an internal truss structure (which would already be more thoughtful than in SE1). Aesthetics wise, it should work as long as there are no distinctive markings that would be distorted by stretching the block.

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2

Here is another topic about that:

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/46043-add-armor-blocks-that-can-be-scaled-dynamically

For a better overview. Should also be voted there, also because it points directly to a solution that sounds similar to Starship Evo, which I mentioned below.

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3

this would be supper useful and help prevent everything looking like a fancy set of stairs

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2

Yeah, that's like my actual ship looks like thanks to such a missing feature. XD

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2

The UGS is great and allows for easy combination of different block sizes. But when it comes to slopes, we still only have two options: 1x1 and 1x2 slopes. This still limits the shapes of ships we can build.


One workaround is using rotors and hinges. This allows for any angle and, in some cases, simplifies building since you often don’t need slopes or transition blocks at all. But it’s far from ideal. Even if we had a “rigidify” option (for mechanical blocks) to lock subgrids in place, they would still remain subgrids, with all the downsides related to physics simulation and control of thrusters, gyros, and other systems. On top of that, you often end up with large sections of a ship attached at just a few points, making the design more fragile and less practical for survival.

Another option is simply adding more slope blocks, like 3x1 or 5x1. But even working with 1x1 and 2x1 slopes and their transitions is already tedious. Adding more variants would only increase complexity and explode G menu. Something has to change in the building tools to reduce this burden. Even after thousands of hours (In SE1 and SE2), building complex shapes is still a slow and sometimes frustrating process.

At the same time, the UGS and physics system likely benefit from keeping blocks “atomic.” In other words, a 2x1 slope should still be made from two 1x1 blocks, a 1x3 slope from three blocks, and so on. We could add all these variations and transitions, but the building process should not require placing them one by one.

Instead, we could have a small set of basic shapes in the toolbar: full block, slope, transition, rounded block, etc. From there, you could drag along a desired axis to define a larger shape. This would not create a new type of block, but the game would automatically fill the shape using available 1x1 (armor) pieces. Some shapes would still be impossible due to limitations of available pieces, but you would gain much more flexibility and speed without dealing with individual blocks.

These shapes should also remain editable. If you define a 3x1x5 slope, you should be able to select it later and adjust its size without rebuilding everything. This would make iteration much easier, especially when you realize you want to tweak proportions after building around it. Shapes could be highlighted differently and selecting them would allow modifications without removing them entirely.

As for additional tools, there could be helpers for creating more complex shapes like cylinders, spheres, toruses, pyramids, or circular segments. You could define starter point and parameters like size or radius and generate the shape. These should remain selectable and editable until you “apply” them. If shapes intersect, the conflicts could simply be highlighted, and resolved with the blocks from the shape you apply first.


You should also be able to select multiple blocks or shapes and change their properties in bulk. For example, selecting armor blocks and switching from light to heavy armor, or filtering blocks by type, color, or texture and applying changes to all of them. This would make iteration much faster and improve the creative workflow significantly.


The conclusion here:

  • The UGS remains unchanged at its core, with no impact on engine systems.
  • What we add is a logical UI/UX layer that helps place multiple blocks at once while the game automatically selects and orients the correct atomic pieces.
  • Larger shapes remain editable until you choose to apply them and resolve intersections.
  • You can select one or multiple blocks (using filters) and apply changes in bulk.

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