Change speed measurement from m/s to km/h

What makes no sense? I'm not talking about distance measurements- those will obviously remain in meters due to the pathetically tiny range of ore detectors. You will notice however that when using antenna, beacons or gps coordinates that the ( large ) distances are measures in KILOMETERS until you get within 1KM, then it switches to meters. That's besides the point though since we aren't talking about distances, I am talking about SPEED.

Hence my question remains- why is speed measured in m/s? Kilometers per hour is a far more widespread, real-world standard and is far more meaningful as a result.

There are no unnecessary calculations to convert from one unit to another- that's not how speed measurement in games works- you simply use one unit or another, and metric is metric, so no conversion required regardless, just the unit of scale. Mph was a suggestion as an option and again, it's hard-coded, no complicated, resource draining, fps or sim-speed killing conversions required, it's simply a matter of how the speed is displayed.

Metric, Imperial, m/s, kph... Everyone has their preference, and this may even change depending on the situation. I agree. An option to configure this aspect to the players personal tastes would probably make the game less overwhelming for new players, and especially appeal to the American market.

Personally, I wouldn't know what a display in km/h would bring in added benefit.

So, suppose the speed was displayed in km/h indeed, what actual useful information would it bring to you over the display in m/s? How would that converted number benefit your gameplay? What in your gameplay is measured in hours and kilometres where a speed display that relates the two directly, without conversion, would provide you with an increase in immediately usefulness? Do you regularly fly such distances for such timespans?

No snark, asking out of honest curiosity.

Thanks,

A.

There is no real tangible benefit besides it being a more familiar unit of measurement, and as such more meaningful for those occasions when you're racing a rover across a lake or grassy plane for example; flipping at 50m/s doesn't really sound that much... flipping at 180mph does... :D

But you're flipping in either case, and once you're flipping it's pretty much too late already. Also, simply knowing your speed of flipping while it happens doesn't change the game physics to, say, suddenly make your craft explode less.

Meh, I've grown up fully metric and my car's dials show km/h, and while I still couldn't immediately tell what I was going at in m/s, I neither miss the display in km/h in the game. There's just no relation, or appreciable lack thereof, probably because the worlds are simply too detached. I've never flipped a car in real life, or bumped anything at any relevant speed for a welder to come into action. Okay, I may have scraped my front lip over a particularly high kerb while braking once due to me being a tool and not driving appropriate to the road conditions, but looking at my speed in numbers was pretty much the last thing that I was bothered with finding out about at that moment.

If I learn through experience that numbers higher than 84 equal happy flippy breaky times for a particular vehicle and surface, I simply try to stay below 84 in the future, regardless whether that 84 is in m/s, smoot/jumpscares or (please no) US customary units.

So, familiar, perhaps, but meaningful as far as the in-game experience is concerned? No, not for me at least.

You must be fun at parties...

Only at those where it's okay to have different views and experience than others.

That's funny, I thought I was expressing a different view / experience ( relating to the use of different speed measurement units ) too; I guess being a hypocrite is something you are down with? Cool cool.

would be a very easy setting to add, at least to the HUD display, its just a simple math conversion, just times 3.6 and change the text behind to km/h

With no word have I discredited or dismissed your different view or experience! Where did you get that idea? I made it a point to highlight that everything I said was my personal view. If it came across otherwise then allow me to confirm this again; but having said that, if you cannot handle others with different impressions to elaborate on their own views of the individual items you list, then you perhaps you shouldn't be listing those particular items in the first place.

"With no word have I discredited or dismissed your different view or experience"

This is called, a lie:

"Personally, I wouldn't know what a display in km/h would bring in added benefit.So, suppose the speed was displayed in km/h indeed, what actual useful information would it bring to you over the display in m/s? How would that converted number benefit your gameplay? What in your gameplay is measured in hours and kilometres where a speed display that relates the two directly, without conversion, would provide you with an increase in immediately usefulness? Do you regularly fly such distances for such timespans?"

Posing your dismissal of my idea as a question does no less to still make it a dismissal. I explained that my suggestion was simply to make the speed we were travelling in more familiar units so that perhaps it would be less of a surprize when rovers flip or take excessive damage, knowing more instantly how fast we were really travelling. Your reaction to that was yet more dismissal:

"But you're flipping in either case, and once you're flipping it's pretty much too late already. Also, simply knowing your speed of flipping while it happens doesn't change the game physics to, say, suddenly make your craft explode less....So, familiar, perhaps, but meaningful as far as the in-game experience is concerned? No, not for me at least."

You see, all you needed to say in response to my original idea was something along the lines of 'It wouldn't benefit me because I'm used to m/s, but I can understand why some people might like the idea- since it would be an optional change it wouldn't actually affect me so no big deal'.

You see how much more polite that is, rather than rambling on and pretending you aren't being condescending for the sake of it? What's worse, is that then you pretty much tell me I shouldn't be sharing my ideas if I can't handle arrogant players low-key insulting them because they think their opinion is more valuable than others- perhaps you should avoid sharing your ideas or opinions if you have to try and validate them at length through the use of aggressive or demeaning language towards other players who are just trying to bring ideas to the table that will improve enjoyment of the game for other people.

No, that is called you either being completely, absurdly, and unwarrantedly oversensitive, blinded by differing views, or not informed as to what discrediting and/or dismissing actually means, or some or all of these.

You want something "along the lines of 'It wouldn't benefit me'?" Well, if you hadn't allowed yourself to fly into your overtriggered tirade, you would have noticed lines like "Personally, I wouldn't know what a display in km/h would bring in added benefit.", "No snark, asking out of honest curiosity.", and "So, familiar, perhaps, but meaningful as far as the in-game experience is concerned? No, not for me at least.". Go reread them once you finished being so ludicrously immature.

Oh, and you want to know a lie? If I said "I can understand why some people might like xyz" as you suggested in the face of me actually not understanding it. Hint: understanding and tolerating are not different words for the same thing. They're actually different things. And no, tolerating something does not equal or even require not saying anything at all in regards to said something.

Low-key insulting, aggressive and demeaning, rambling and pretending ... What an absolute joke, Except nobody's laughing. Maybe you should try being less paranoid. And if you can't do that, a public forum frequented by other people is perhaps the wrong medium to communicate your suggestions.

I like the fact you called me triggered; pot, meet kettle. I'd guess you aren't used to people not agreeing with you or standing up for their own point of view, hence your own repeated tirades. It's okay though, I understand- some of us like doing things just for fun, and that confuses people like you who don't see the point in 'it'. Take care now.

Look who's talking. Even after I've emphasised multiple times that those views I elaborated on were my own and that I raised them with the sole purpose of illustrating how my experience differed, you still insisted I made them only to express that I viewed yours of lesser value, relevance, or applicability. Now who is really not used to people disagreeing or standing up for their points of view, I wonder.

I have no problem with people not agreeing with me. I have a problem when people don't agree based on untrue bullshit they refuse to question.

To quote Joey from Friends: "It's not what you said, it's the way that you said it". Your whole demeanour was patronising and overly long winded, when, as I already said, a simple 'I'm not concerned about using kph or mph as I'm perfectly used to m/s already' would have done. You must like the sound of your own voice based on how long every reply of your usually is...

To quote Ricky Gervais: "Offense is always taken, never given."

Do we now start pseudointellectually slinging random, out-of-context sayings of uninvolved people to decorate our respective trains of throught, derailed or otherwise?

I don't recall saying that I found your words offensive- I said they were patronising and overly long winded, presumably because you felt the need to have your OPINION stand out from the other far more sensible replies people have offered to my SUGGESTION which weren't rambling and dismissive.

If you don't see the value in adding other optional measurement units to the game- great! Don't use them, stick to the original ones... just bear in mind that originally rovers did actually us KPH for speed measurements when planets were introduced, but Keen patched that feature out for some reason.

@Suicide Neil

Fucking let it go. He had no intention of anything you are accusing him of.

Is that you, Elsa?..

Sadly Roberto, you completely missed the point of my suggestion; I'm well aware of the scientific measurement units- look down a bit further at the part about road signs... you'll understand better... maybe...

Just checked, wheels are still m/s- as you said though, it makes it hard to estimate travel time quickly with m/s, where as kph makes it far quicker, at a glance essentially. That is especially important when you're stuck on a planet and can't use a jump drive to travel long distances- knowing how long it will take to drive or fly helps a lot in many circumstances.

I'm curious how you think kph makes it easier to see your speed vs m/s? They are both basically arbitrary measurements, and just because most people drive using kph does not mean they know what it looks like.

I did already explain this several times, but just for you:

They may be 'arbitrary', but they are a more familiar and thus, more meaningful unit. When driving, most people still use miles- everyone* knows what a mile looks like ( I walk a mile to work each day, trust me I know... ), a kilometer is easy enough to convert to ( 1.6km to a mile, 1km is ~2/3 of a mile ). Thus, using kph or mph is more relateable than meters per second- how do you gauge how long it will take to travel a certain large distance ( tens, or hundreds of miles or km ) using meters per second? That requires more thinking than most of us hoi polloi can manage, but with kph or mph, it's easy to judge journey time when you know the distance.

Sigh. Fine, have it that way.

No, there is no "thus"! You use the word "meaningful" like you stole it … Just because a unit is more familiar doesn't mean it's more meaningful, ffs! Fine, you walk a mile twice a day, you know how a mile looks laid out on the ground, you know you take, say, half an hour to walk one. You know how speeds of cars feel, you know how long drives take in the real world, on the ground, in real vehicles, but how can this possibly translate to a virtual gameworld with a regularly hit speed cap that, might I add, translates to 360 bloody km/h (Tell me, who drives routinely at speeds that not even F1 cars reach most of the time to even remotely think about calling them relatable??) and with travel times of regularly far shorter than an hour? What absurd audience and/or map settings are you trying to cater to with your idiotic argument of familiarity? Why not also argue in favour of pounds for cargo weight, football fields for distances, bathtubs for units of tank fill? Yes, your unit will sound familiar but it will improve absolutely zero. It may relate to your daily life, but your daily life has neither applicability nor relevance in the gameworld. For all the benefit it would have, you might as well ask that every ship come in blue because you like blue so much. Equally cosmetic as turning metres a second into kilometres an hour, but it will help you just about as little in getting around the gameworld in the overwhelming majority of gameplay.

Your suggestion is good but your reasoning is less watertight than a sieve, and worse, when someone tries to find out what you really mean with "meaningful", just in case something might not have been noticed and learning it could turn out to be beneficial, you get absurdly defensive and accuse them of personally attacking you.

Top banana. Good luck with your suggestion for suggestion's sake.

Sorry, all I heard there was "rabble rabble rabble, I disagree, rabble rabble rabble".

If you lived all of your life with mph, and suddenly you had to use m/s, it would be hard to adapt because you can't relate to m/s as easily as mph- mph is instinctive just as using pounds and ounces would be compared to suddenly switching to grams and kilograms. I appreciate you don't understand this as apparently you are a robot and thus you can automatically switch back and forth, there is nothing to confuse or throw you off, you work fine with every unit of measurement and can use all types perfectly fine. Good for you- hush now, the discussion is over and it is not for you to decide if my idea is valid or not- it is upto the devs.

"all I heard there was "rabble rabble rabble"" - No surprise here, Captain Obvious, why should you suddenly react differently to things being spelled out in plain words for you and to having your idiotic bubble of circular thoughts challenged. You didn't even notice, not even in the end, that my investigation and criticism was never about your suggestion per se but the vacuous "reasoning" you employed to make it work.

"If you lived all of your life with mph in an environment that is graded in miles and hours, and suddenly you had to use m/s in a completely different environment that is graded in metres and seconds, it would be perfectly normal and very easy to adapt because even though it's not easy to relate miles with metres and hours with seconds, that is also a complete non-issue because the two environments in questions are completely separate anyhow."

There, fixed that for you.

What's the next changes you're going to suggest because "hurr, durr, familiar"? Why not also suggest measuring the capacity of the O2 Tank in minutes of breathing, not litres, the thrust of engines in "weights of a chocolate bar" (surprise, that's about the same as a Newton anyhow) and their power consumption stat in brake horse-power (particularly useless for hydrogen thrusters as they don't actually consume power)? I mean, given how daily commutes in the real world are soooo relatable to a space game displayed through a 2D display the size of a bathroom window and controlled from the reclined position in front of a panel of buttons on an immovable desktop surface, that should be the logical next step, right?

I tried taking your arguments seriously, but since you can't help but take the piss, why should I bother …

You really can't accept that someone has a different experience or opinion on an issue, can you? How sad.

You make completely ridiculous arguments to try and support your position, and it shows- I compare accepted units of measurements, and you spout nonsense like 'thrust of engines in "weights of a chocolate bar'- need I say more?

What's worse is that you accuse me of taking the piss by making a common-sense argument, and you respond by making non-sequiter arguments about other, unrelated issues that not once I have I talked about- you seem to be very good at that since you've failed to make a sound argument for not having other units of speed measurement, so you have to try and put words into my mouth. Pathetic.

You aren't convincing me that having different, accepted speed measurements is a bad or pointless idea- the fact that most cars have both mph and kph on their speedometers only serves to reinforce my point that it is a fair suggestion. If you want to continue having a tantrum because I refuse to bow down to your, ahem, "superior reasoning", go right ahead- all you'll do is wear out your keyboard.

See that^? Omg, how stupid! How dare they use mph and kph! That's insane and pointless! What next, the fuel gauge using kitten tears as a measure of volume?! Insane!

"You aren't convincing me that having different, accepted speed measurements is a bad or pointless idea-"

He said he's not trying to. You aren't even bothering to read what he's typing.

Actually, in one breath he said it wouldn't help or was pointless, then in the next he said it wasn't a bad idea, but my reasoning for the suggestion is not sound. Okay, my suggestion is good, but my reason for it isn't- that makes sense.... /sarcasm

My reasoning however, is perfectly sound- the picture posted above pretty much proves as much; when was the last time you got into a car and the speedometer had m/s on the dial? Kph and mph are familiar units and as such, far more relateable than m/s- tell me how that reasoning is 'invalid' or 'unsound', please?

His argument is that speed measurement units are arbitrary and it makes no difference which ones you use, so we might as well just use m/s because those are more scientific, or words to that affect; I disagree and argue that using more familiar units would be better for some players, primarily for rovers where speed is usually measured in kph or mph- I don't see what is so unreasonable about that reasoning. It's like arguing that clothes all do the same job, so we should all be wearing the same clothes in the same colour- how dare anyone have a preference for different styles and colours...

I AM NOT SAYING THAT DIFFERENT UNITS ARE POINTLESS, YOU STUBBORN MORONIC WASTE OF OXYGEN, I AM SAYING THAT YOUR ARGUMENT OF RELATABILITY IS INCOMPREHENSIBLE AND MISGUIDED BECAUSE THE ENVIRONMENTS WHERE YOU TRY TO SHOEHORN ONE LOCALLY COMMON UNIT INTO ANOTHER THEMSELVES ARE UNRELATED!! HOW OFTEN DO YOU, PERSONALLY, IN REAL LIFE, WALK AT 360 KM/H ACROSS ASTEROIDS? HOW OFTEN DO YOU, PERSONALLY, IN REAL LIFE, DRIFT FOR HOURS BETWEEN SPACE OBJECTS?! WHAT IS THAT? NEVER? WELL, HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY CLAIM ANY SORT OF RELATABILITY THEN?

Seriously, you couldn't be any thicker if someone massaged your forehead with a spade.

Fucking hell, the density of some people.

"Actually, in one breath he said it wouldn't help or was pointless, then in the next he said it wasn't a bad idea, but my reasoning for the suggestion is not sound. Okay, my suggestion is good, but my reason for it isn't- that makes sense.... /sarcasm"

Yes, because making suggestions and getting involved is a good thing and commendable. Spouting bullshit is not.

"My reasoning however, is perfectly sound- the picture posted above pretty much proves as much; when was the last time you got into a car and the speedometer had m/s on the dial?"

No, it is not perfectly sound, it is in fact not sound at all. Yes, speedometers are graded in km/h or mph because the world where cars are operated is graded in kilometres or miles and hours and because it is common in the real world to travel many kilometres or miles and many hours.

The world in Space Engineers, however, is so small that kilometres and hours become impractical, and metres and seconds become more handy. For the trillionth time, familiarity does not cause applicability and therefore neither your oh-so beloved meaningfulness.

"His argument is that speed measurement units are arbitrary and it makes no difference which ones you use, so we might as well just use m/s because those are more scientific,"

No, that is NOT my argument. You really, really, REALLY do not bother reading what I'm writing, do you? I am neither saying they are arbitrary, nor that there is no difference, and definitely not that they, and only they, ought to be used solely because they be more scientific. I am saying that your beloved km/h or mph is less handy than m/s because they are too big to be practical in the gameworld of SE. This is why I enquired about your playstyle. "What in your gameplay is measured in hours and kilometres where a speed display that relates the two directly, without conversion, would provide you with an increase in immediately usefulness? Do you regularly fly such distances for such timespans?" - Sound familiar? I hope so. I believe that was some of the text that you had to go and get yourself all offended over instead of actually addressing with an actually applicable answer.

You seem to be a very angry little man, are you okay dude?:

""His argument is that speed measurement units are arbitrary and it makes no difference which ones you use, so we might as well just use m/s because those are more scientific,"

"No, that is NOT my argument."

I'm sure you used the word arbitrary, but I can't see it now- I suspect shenanigans, but anyway. You argue:

"Yes, your unit will sound familiar but it will improve absolutely zero. It may relate to your daily life, but your daily life has neither applicability nor relevance in the gameworld. For all the benefit it would have, you might as well ask that every ship come in blue because you like blue so much. Equally cosmetic as turning metres a second into kilometres an hour, but it will help you just about as little in getting around the gameworld in the overwhelming majority of gameplay."

You, too, don't seem to understand what you are arguing against; I have on numerous occasions specifically said it would be useful for rovers- you could also use kph in space to determine travel time more easily based on distances that are measured in kilometers- a fact that seems lost on you.

"HOW OFTEN DO YOU, PERSONALLY, IN REAL LIFE, WALK AT 360 KM/H ACROSS ASTEROIDS? HOW OFTEN DO YOU, PERSONALLY, IN REAL LIFE, DRIFT FOR HOURS BETWEEN SPACE OBJECTS?! WHAT IS THAT? NEVER? WELL, HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY CLAIM ANY SORT OF RELATABILITY THEN?"

Capslock ftw. Okay, a few issues there^- for one, at no point have I said that I would use kph units for walking- no where, not once- again with the strawman arguments. As for drifting through space- I am talking about calculating travel time based on distances measured in kilometres ( the unit the game uses ), using speed units that would also be in kilometres.

I don't understand how that is so difficult to understand. Sure, you'd need to convert and/or do a quick sum regardless of the distance and units of measurements ( unless you're Rachel Riley- I'll wait... ), but it would just be nicer and bit more fun if those units were kph since that's what ground vehicles use in real life. Jeez, that was literally my reasoning from the first post, but you just can't accept that some people like using units that are more familiar, even if it doesn't actually help with working out travel times and such.

Why are you so angry? Look at all the other responses to my suggestion, then look at yours- you need to take a chill pill.

You really don't get it. Why don't you try those analytical skills to understanding what people actually, say, Siegmund? "Take a chill pill." Why don't you take a comprehension pill?

Yes, ground vehicles in real life use kph or mph BECAUSE THEY TRAVEL FOR KILOMETRES AND FOR HOURS, but ground features in SE are METRES AND SECONDS away; and when they aren't, it's anecdotal fringe cases for which you want to impose a GUI change on those cases that aren't fringe!

And in space, for when it's kilometres, you honestly calculate in significant fractions of an hour? You honestly let your ship/engineer drift unobserved or half observed through space while doing something else, hoping you don't hit an asteroid in the meantime? If so, why didn't you say that earlier? "Yes, I do that, and I do that regularly, so it would benefit me, knowing that I can expect the next ten, twenty minutes to do some drifting." - Instead, "Whee, whee, whee, you belittle my suggestion."

Oh, but you weren't actually wanting it for distances in space where things are actually kilometres apart, as opposed to distances on the ground that vary so wildly due to terrain that appreciable fractions of an hour can mean anything from "behind that hill" to "opposite side of the planet". I forgot.

"Nicer and more fun?" - "Yay, I just managed to drive my rover at an equivalent speed of 100 metres a second across terrain that is a compressed and inconsistently scaled Earth for about ten seconds before crashing into the next hillside, and the UI told me the speed in km/h so I didn't have to convert this completely anecdotal value!" - Like so? You're right, I can already see sale numbers on Steam skyrocket.

Again with the false statements- I think you'll find that planets in SE are hundreds of kilometers around, you can easily drive for hours to get from one point to another. Nothing fringe-case about that- you sound like you've hardly even played the game.

I'm not 'imposing' a GUI change- I'm suggesting a tick-box option that people would be free to use or ignore- you seem to think I'm talking about completely changing the GUI with my suggestion, the way you speak- again with the disingenuous remarks.

"And in space, for when it's kilometres, you honestly calculate in significant fractions of an hour? You honestly let your ship/engineer drift unobserved or half observed through space while doing something else, hoping you don't hit an asteroid in the meantime? If so, why didn't you say that earlier?"

I don't personally, but I know of several people that have stated they do- when they had no jumpdrive available in survival. There are no other options for travelling long distances, though it doesn't mean you would do so without paying attention to asteroids or collision hazards- again, a disingenuous statement to try and bolster your own argument. Who on Earth would calculate a journey of hundreds of kilometers in seconds! Lol.

"Oh, but you weren't actually wanting it for distances in space where things are actually kilometres apart, as opposed to distances on the ground that vary so wildly due to terrain that appreciable fractions of an hour can mean anything from "behind that hill" to "opposite side of the planet". I forgot."

Yeah, it's clear you don't play this game much; there are actually vast open plains and ice lakes that are perfectly flat, mono-rails that cross continents ( nod to RavRic ), and we also have hover engines for rovers that let us fly over hills and valleys with relative ease. Naturally, if there is an obstacle we can't simply drive over then we drive around it- it doesn't change the fact that kph or mph is just as useful or more so than m/s.

"Nicer and more fun?" - "Yay, I just managed to drive my rover at an equivalent speed of 100 metres a second across terrain that is a compressed and inconsistently scaled Earth for about ten seconds before crashing into the next hillside, and the UI told me the speed in km/h so I didn't have to convert this completely anecdotal value!" - Like so? You're right, I can already see sale numbers on Steam skyrocket."

I was right about you being fun at parties- you are a miserable, joyless git. Go play farming simulator, that seems more your style.

"when they had no jumpdrive available in survival."

Yes. That's a fringe case. You don't do that all the time. Fetch a calculator and do a few /60. Ding, hours. It's called trip planning. Your trip won't get any shorter by knowing your momentary speed in one unit or another. That hill or gully won't get any flatter by knowing your momentary speed in one unit or another. That planet you're on, 120 km at most in diameter, won't get any flatter by knowing your momentary speed in one unit or another. Surprise, something 100 km on the surface away is actually about 150 km away, and that's assuming it was a featureless sphere.

But hey, anecdotal numerical in a familiar but otherwise irrelevant unit, woohoo!

No, Jump Drives are expensive and it takes a long time to grind the materials, especially when starting out alone and on a planet with just the lander- you might even have to go to space to get all of them as some don't spawn on planets, and even then it takes time to find all of them on the moon or spaced out asteroids. Regardless, you still seem hung-up on the notion that people might prefer to use units of measurements they are more familiar with- it's like it actually upsets you for some reason. Weird...

Can you make up your mind? What business do you have distances equal to hours of travelling when starting out? Asteroids are about a dozen kilometres apart, and even the Moon is only about 120 km away from Earth which is a never-changing twenty minutes regardless of displayed unit.

I suppose we all have our hobbies. Yours seems to be trying to conjure utility from thin air, but only so much that it can stay buried somewhere in the game options. Weird …

Now you're clutching at straws to justify your argument. What would you say if I told you rovers originally measured their speed in kph, and it only switched to m/s because as soon as you got airborne the game automatically switched it to m/s... then back to kph when you landed? All I'm suggesting is to keep it fixed at kph- aircraft can use it too if people so wish.

Your hobby seems to be to find ideas you don't like and spend all your time arguing with them for the sake if it, reducing your argument down to 'I don't like X, therefore no one should'...

What I am clutching at straws? You were the one who set that scenario!

I don't care what unit rovers used to have their speed measured in, all I care about is the number that I can memorise if necessary because THIS number in THIS world indicates safe or non-safe speeds. For all I care it could be the graphical dial alone. You should have known this before felt necessary to raise it as some form of argument. Talk about grasping for straws.

YOUR hobby seems to misinterpret inquisitive comments and also only read half of them at best.

Sorry, I'm only fluent in English, not assholish. Don't you mean my other hobby?

Like you said though- if all YOU can memorise is m/s, then good for you- as we can already see, some people see the merit in my suggestion, but some people, like yourself, are confused by such simple ideas and take personal offence at it- because YOU don't see the merit. That's fine- no one is forcing you to like the idea, all you had to say was you don't see the point and leave it at that- no need for the tirades.

You should add Retardish to your list of languages that you do speak, because I said "memorise the number", not "memorise m/s". As in, the numerical value that is currently displayed, regardless what length units per time units it counts. Maybe you should have your audio instructions amended that tell you in which order to breathe in and out so as to not asphyxiate. Maybe have the words "read next word" added to that tape.

So rude, do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

So, you don't care what units the speed or distance are measured in- why are you still so upset about my suggestion then?

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Wow seriously dude take your meds.

Useless, downvote

Says the idiot who refuses to use his own in the first place and keeps thinking only worth the distance between his eyes and his blinkers. You must be an absolute pain for your parents to deal with when going to the checkout and ignoring the stands with all the colourful sweets and treats.

Oh dear, ad hominem attacks- how low you have sunk.

Try this on for size: Every driving game I can think of uses mph and kph, if you build a rover in SE it becomes a driving game, of sorts- guess which units of speed measurement would make more sense...

;)

You are not even remotely in a position to chastise others for non-textbook discussion methods. You have been making a mockery of this entire discussion right from the moment where you dismissed my enquiries as a personal attack. Your entire, actually notable, contribution to this thread has been your stubborn, blinkered, unreasonable repetition of the same superficial, insubstantial, subjective, skewed, and inapplicable phrase.

Let that sink in:

Your entire merit in this thread, save your OP, is equivalent to Stiller's repetition of his "But why male models?" line in Zoolander, and not one iota more.

His at least made people laugh.

SE is not a driving game. SE does not have real-scale driving environments. Your argument of sense-making of one unit over another is null and void.

Keep taking your meds. You're showing signs of improvement but it'll probably take another week for them to reach proper saturation. Maybe then you'll have a grasp of reality. Until then, know that we're all hoping they are successful. Good luck!

You're so cute. If your performance in that thread about oxygen tanks is any indication of your mental capabilities, how would you even know anything about reality? As in, actual reality?

Better stick to suggesting "workarounds".

Andersenman- I never dismissed your enquires as personal attacks, I dismissed your personal attacks as personal attacks- you can't even tell the difference between your own posts any more because you've made so many withering insults, put-downs and had a few mental break downs.

My reasoning is PERFECTLY SOUND- you just refuse to concede the point and would rather continue throwing out the same tired 'but it doesn't matter what unit of speed you use, you're still going the same speed anyway' line.

IF IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER, THEN WHY ARE YOU ARGUING YOU SILLY CUNT?

That's an observation though, not an insult- you are indeed a cunt so far as I can tell. Now go away and shut the fuck up.

"I never dismissed your enquires as personal attacks,"

Nooo, you totally never did, that would be an absurd thing to claim!

Oh wait, you did:

"You must be fun at parties...", "being a hypocrite", "being condescending", "arrogant players low-key insulting them", "they were patronising and overly long winded", etc., etc.

"My reasoning is PERFECTLY SOUND-"

Hint: Jokes don't get better the more you repeat them.

"you just refuse to concede the point and would rather continue throwing out the same tired 'but it doesn't matter what unit of speed you use, you're still going the same speed anyway' line."

Curiously, though, I used that particular line, or the essence of it, in exactly two posts, one original and one to restate it because you STILL kept claiming things that I neither said not intended to say. Which has been pretty much your key problem in this thread: You keep reading only roughly the first three words in a sentence and then decide you've had enough and start tossing toys. And you call ME a ranting, raving nutter.

"IF IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER,"

Hey, you found a catchphrase! See in how many more "retorts" you can use it out of context!

"Now go away and shut the fuck up."

I wish I could. Sadly, you keep popping up (which alone isn't a problem), putting wrong words in my mouth and retorting with all the wrong conclusions (which is). Every time I come to this forum, just looking to see what creative ideas the community has came up with in the meantime, and I see this thread back at the top, this is what I'm expecting to be imagining shortly after:

Hint: You're not Bill Murray's character.

Sadly, pretty much every time my imagination proved right.

So.... While we wait another week for your meds to finish kicking in, might I suggest you spend your time going back to editing the wrong wiki? At least that way you won't be bothering anyone...

It is my opinion that it would be nice if we could use different, valid, units of speed measurement in ( primarily ) ground vehicles, since this ( kph or mph ) is a more familiar unit of measurement compared to the standard meters per second we currently use.

Hands up if you disagree because you are so far off the autism scale that you can't possibly comprehend such a simple and reasonable idea, and instead will spend a few weeks talking shit because you're so used to getting your own way in a discussion.

andersenman:

I think m/s is better, as we are doing things in space, having to do with engineering and physics, and the most common and often unit of speed used for engineering and/or space is meters (or kilometers) per second. It also gives us a nice 1-100 scale of "fast"

I never really considered the 1-100 scale ( more like 1-104ish but close enough ), I guess that's the trouble with having an artificially limited top speed. For rovers on planets though that can go scarily fast, m/s means less ( to me ) than kph- we're going the same velocity regardless it is true, but the far more common unit of measurement for a 'car' is kph, hence. Got to get into the Jeremy Clarkson mindset of measuring speed... ;)

"Hands up if you disagree because you are so far off the autism scale " Really? You've sunk so low as to use Autism as an insult? Asshole.

Aww shucks, did I say something mean to your friend? Given the insults and patronising comments he has hurled at me, I don't think it's too unkind to suggest he has severe learning difficulties and has trouble speaking in a social setting.

Except that's not autism. If you're gonna insult someone, at least don't use a disability, let alone one you don't even know what it is.

Please don't call it a disability. That has a negative connotation. Use 'personal challenge' instead.

My bad- it was Asperger's rather than Autism- I said Autism though based on his screeching and repeating the same broken argument over and over; he has displayed symptoms of both conditions:

"A child or adult with autism spectrum disorder may have limited, repetitive patterns of behaviour, interests or activities, including any of these signs: Performs repetitive movements, such as rocking, spinning or hand flapping."

and:

• "People with Asperger's syndrome have normal to above-average intelligence but typically have difficulties with social interactions and often have pervasive, absorbing interests in special topics.
• Abnormalities in the subtle use of language and interpretation of language are common with Asperger's syndrome, although language development (grammar, syntax, etc.) is normal.
• The degree of severity of symptoms can vary among affected individuals.
• Anxiety and frustration may contribute to disruptive behaviours or depression in people with Asperger's syndrome."

So? You're still using it as an insult, which you shouldn't.

Says who? Are you the guardian of moral standards on the SE support forum? Given the insults he has hurled at me and other people in other threads, I feel perfectly happy in pointing out his behaviour is in line with that of someone who has mental health issues. I could conjure up far more 'colourful' insults, but I didn't; be grateful.

Says the moderators, actually. Knock it off. You don't get to be asshole just because you feel like it.

What mods would that be, the ones who have been actively monitoring this thread and dealing with the abusive back and forths? Quick check...hmm, getting an error 404 on that one.

( I did actually contact them via email about this thread- they basically said that unless he is making racist or sexist type derogatory remarks they aren't interested, hence ).

Regardless- you aren't a mod so you don't get to tell people what they can and can't say, if the actual devs decide to shut this thread down, they will- no need to pretend you have some kind of power or influence here, I had enough of sycophants on the forum sucking up to the only active moderator in order to get away with bullying new members and anyone who had a negative opinion about any aspect of the game. I'll be fucking damned if I have to deal with it here too.

"Regardless- you aren't a mod so you don't get to tell people what they can and can't say,"

Translation- "I'm gonna be an asshole, and you can't stop me."

That is indeed the correct translation- coming from your mouth; you are an asshole, and I can't stop you.

Since we are at this level now:

I call it like I see- sorry if I offended your life-partner, it's only natural for you to defend one another.

How is informing you of what you're doing, and demanding you stop it with the demeaning, trivializing, and ignorance you have being an asshole?

This isn't your fight- stop acting like you have some kind of control here. You don't, no one is going to do as you ask- go away and annoy someone else with your silly demands.

Yes, how dare you to remind people that productive discussion doesn't mean stubbornly shouting the respective positions at each other and ridiculing the opposition by attacking insultingly-low-hanging fruit like individual text colouration but instead of evaluating the actual points presented, both the opposite's and one's own, and also re-evaluating them as they come to light! How silly of you!

It was an argument, it got heated, it descended into name calling and such because party B failed to understand the very simple point that party A repeatedly tried to get across ( party A has a surprising lack of patience and a short temper these days, can't think why ); welcome to the internet, we do hope you enjoy your stay....

That does not make it okay to do.

I'm not saying you're a snowflake with fragile sensibilities, but you sure act like it. Any time you want to stop banging your head against a wall, feel free to realise the discussion is over and your input is not longer required (nor was it ever required but all the same ).

Or... you could just stop being an asshole. Why do you insist on doing so? Past trauma? Abusive parents? Narcissism? What possible reason could you have for continuing to be a prick, when there is no reason to?

Why do you think continuing to berate me is going to change anything? I can't time travel and have this debate over again in a different fashion. Hush now, it's over and done with- nothing can be changed or undone, having a public tantrum because you didn't like what I said won't change what I said, get a grip.

When you're continuing to refuse to even entertain the notion of not being an asshole, and there being no moderator presence here, it is up to the community to self-police.

Look everyone, a social justice warrior- he thinks he is the forum police.

If it helps, you can click the 'stop following' link in the yellow box up the top, you wont get any more notifications from this thread afterwards.

I am sorry for all of this though Jeff, you are right of course- it's a simple idea with a simple reason ( for me suggesting it )- some people would rather rant and make up silly reasons for it being a bad idea rather than simply saying 'no thanks'- I have a duty to defend my idea though since it clearly isn't as nonsensical as some people would like to suggest and I just can't let their BS stand unchallenged.

Yes, but what about those people who get offended at the slightest hint of skepticism and then generalise things they witnessed being said in their presence (but also in very specific contexts) in pathetic attempts at justifying their misguided echauffage? What about the duty of standing up against THEIR BS?

Hypocrite.

It's hardly hypocritical of me to defend against the likes of you- most of your posts are nothing but arrogant attempts to assert your opinion, and you failed miserably. Even if I was a hypocrite, at least I'm not such a small man that I throw my toys out of the pram when I can't get my own way.

Aside from the fact that you never even once considered what he was saying, you were exemplar in your non-handling of this.

No, I considered what he was ranting every time- most of the time though he was ignoring the core of my argument and simply sticking to his ' units don't matter, you can learn new ones' or 'SE isn't a driving game' or 'm/s are better because bla bla bla' type of arguments. Also, you took too long to respond and your response is just another 'you aren't listening to him' comment- like I said, I did listen, it is his problem for not understanding me. Now it's your turn to just let it go.

Except that wasn't his argument. Which he told you plenty of times. You ignored it.

Even more, are you saying you handled that perfectly? I think that's a resounding "No".

Yes, those were his arguments actually- I refuse to have to keep quoting him, but just for you since you're a fucking sycophant who can't read:

"Personally, I wouldn't know what a display in km/h would bring in added benefit.So, suppose the speed was displayed in km/h indeed, what actual useful information would it bring to you over the display in m/s? How would that converted number benefit your gameplay?"

my reply:

"There is no real tangible benefit besides it being a more familiar unit of measurement, and as such more meaningful for those occasions when you're racing a rover across a lake or grassy plane for example; flipping at 50m/s doesn't really sound that much... flipping at 180mph does... :D"

To which he replies:

"But you're flipping in either case, and once you're flipping it's pretty much too late already. Also, simply knowing your speed of flipping while it happens doesn't change the game physics to, say, suddenly make your craft explode less.

Meh, I've grown up fully metric and my car's dials show km/h, and while I still couldn't immediately tell what I was going at in m/s, I neither miss the display in km/h in the game. There's just no relation, or appreciable lack thereof, probably because the worlds are simply too detached"

As you can clearly see, I specifically stated that the more familiar units of measurements are helpful when determining safe speeds to avoid flipping- he repeatedly states that the units of speed don't matter because you can learn new units. He fails to appreciate that I'm talking only about the in-game physics and driving, and constantly tries to refer to real-world scenarios that have little or nothing to do with my original argument- like so:

"Just because a unit is more familiar doesn't mean it's more meaningful, ffs! Fine, you walk a mile twice a day, you know how a mile looks laid out on the ground, you know you take, say, half an hour to walk one. You know how speeds of cars feel, you know how long drives take in the real world, on the ground, in real vehicles, but how can this possibly translate to a virtual gameworld with a regularly hit speed cap that, might I add, translates to 360 bloody km/h (Tell me, who drives routinely at speeds that not even F1 cars reach most of the time to even remotely think about calling them relatable??)"

He wilfully ignores the fact that turning at such high speeds causes crashes or flips, and that's the point of my suggestion and what Burstar pointed out; more familiar units of speed are more meaningful ( yes, they really are as already proven a million times ) because they make more sense in the context of SE ( ergo, trying to turn at a seemingly low 50m/s is actually a bad idea because that's actually very high speed ). I'll skip quoting anything else because it's just too long-winded and repeating the same thing, 'what's the point of using kph or mph when it's a video game, just learn m/s' basically. I'll also skip his mental breakdown and ridiculous notion that I'm suggesting completely oddball units of measurements that don't make any sense. The only way to handle the debate better would be to ban him from it- he is clearly one sandwich short of a picnic- you don't need to defend him, or try to insist I don't understand him; I understand him just fine.

And you can't even see what you did wrong. Wonderful. Take a good long look at how you handled this, and take a lesson out of it.

Telling me to 'take a lesson out of this' and 'you can't see what you did wrong' over and over is not going to change the fact that you're defending an idiot with reading comprehension issues.

"Telling me to 'take a lesson out of this' and 'you can't see what you did wrong' over and over is not going to change the fact that you're defending an idiot with reading comprehension issues."

The pot is calling the kettle black.

I'm not defending him now. I am criticizing your handling of it.

'Criticizing my handling'- kid, you aren't a PR manager, nor are you a moderator or KSH staff. Go away and mind your own business.

You're on a public forum. I am minding my own business.

You jumped into someone else's argument and started hassling them for the way they were arguing; you couldn't be any more ridiculous if you tried.

You are on a public forum. You handled this poorly. You insulted someone using a disability you don't even understand, and expected it to be unnoticed. You are a pile of shit that masquerades as a troll on the internet, trying to claim that you want to be left alone, yet you keep responding, and insulting. If you want to be left alone, stop responding.

Also, I've translated what you're doing. Hopefully you understand.

"Why are people calling me bad for being a prick? It's not like I did anything wrong while yelling out into the public that Hitler wasn't that bad."

Seriously. Disability as insult = bad. When you don't even understand it, and are using the stereotype of it = worse. Trying to defend your usage of it = Pile of shit.

Fuck off back to whatever hole of hell you crawled out of. Maybe the demons there will come out and apologize for your behaviour, cause for all they are, at least they are honest about being assholes.

Why do you think continuing to berate me is going to change anything? I can't time travel and have this debate over again in a different fashion. Hush now, it's over and done with- nothing can be changed or undone, having a public tantrum because you didn't like what I said won't change what I said, get a grip.

Cause you're refusing to entertain the notion of you being wrong, or even handling that badly. I'm not expecting you to go back and change how you did it. I'm expecting you to accept that you did not do it as well as you could have.

What you expect is meaningless to me- I do not answer to you, and the mods have no interest either... because there are no mods as it happens. Was there anything else?

Jump into the driving seat of a car and look at the dashboard- you end up in mph or kph... ;)

I really wish I could change the title of this suggestion- I derped hard and forgot to write 'Give us the option to'. I think people would be less opposed to such an idea if they didn't think I was insisting upon a complete change, rather than just a new option.

Jump into the cockpit of a spacecraft, and you see meters per second

No you don't, unless you work for NASA or something- even then I don't imagine they have speedometers- cars on Earth in real life do though, and they use mph or kph.

Besides, I'm guessing no one bothered to read past my opening post- I am talking about using kph or mph in ROVERS, primarily. Please at least read the first few posts before replying- you'll be more informed and see where I'm coming from.

"no one bothered to read past my …"

My, my, my, doesn't that sound ever so familiar …

Irksome, isn't it?

@Suicide Neil and you can't be bothered to learn something new in a game where thinking is the key, because... ?

Just some math why learning meters/second is a good thing: How many small ion thrusters does it take to decelerate your full (small-grid) miner (60t) from 100 m/s to full stop within 10 seconds?

To get from 100 m/s to 0 within 10 seconds, you need to decelerate at (100 / 10 = ) 10 m/s. Using F = m * a you know that it takes a force (F) of 1 N to accelerate 1 kg (m) by 1 m/s (a) or 10 N to accelerate by 10 m/s. So a 60,000 kg ship needs a force of (60,000 * 10 = ) 600 kN to accelerate by 10 m/s. 1 small ion thruster has a force of 12 kN, so it would take (600 / 12 = ) 50 small ion thrusters to get to a full stop within 10 seconds. The small hydrogen thruster has a thrust of 82 kN so it would take only 7.3 of those. Alternatively the 900 kN (small grid) large thruster would stop your ship in only (900000 / 60000 = 15 m/s, 100 / 15 = ) 6.66 seconds.

Now try to answer the same question with km/h, and you soon realize that the very first thing you need to do is to convert that into m/s if you ever want an answer.

I never said I didn't want to learn something new- I don't understand why people keep trying to use this argument as a way of dismissing my idea; I've been playing for 5+ years, I am very familiar with the notion of using m/s, believe me. I am also familiar with the best methods of determining thruster requirements- that is besides the point though.

I also don't understand why people go to such ridiculous lengths of massively overcomplicating their arguments with long-winded explanations and use of equations when all I'm saying is 'cars use mph/kph, it would be nice if our SE-built cars could too'. Its almost as though my idea is so basic that the high-minded folks can't grasp it and instead revert to all they do understand which is unnecessary levels of over-thinking issues that are unrelated to the suggestion I made.

This. The reality is that SE supports a broad variety of use cases. Not all use cases are the same, and each one has an 'ideal' speed measurement. Neil's idea doesn't say m/s is bad, it says that some people might find kph/mph more intuitive under certain conditions and an option to reflect that would be nice.

Some examples:

SE's social media is rife with complaints that rovers flip too easily, or are broken. I think a large part of this is that they are trying to make turns at say a 'reasonable' 50m/s which is crazy considering that's like 180 kph. Something everyone who ever operated any land vehicle ever would understand immediately without having to flip the rover to learn it.

How far is the Moon in Solar System start? Who long would it take to get there? What about to Mars?

if you answered "~2.5x10^5 meters and therefore ~2500 seconds" you aren't seeing the point. Try again.

Of course m/s is better for the engineering calculations, and for small distance maneuvers in space. Nobody said it isn't.

@Suicide Neil So if you are familiar with m/s, and it obviously (see my example calculation) makes a lot of sense to display speed in m/s, we can agree that m/s is the best way of displaying speed in this game and we can close this?

"SE's social media is rife with complaints that rovers flip too easily, or are broken. I think a large part of this is that they are trying to make turns at say a 'reasonable' 50m/s which is crazy considering that's like 180 kph."

This is the EXACT reason why Keen had to completely rework rovers/wheels to artificially make them more stable and less prone to flipping- not because they actually were most of the time ( unstable, that is ), but because people were making hard turns at high speed without really realising it; even 30m/s doesn't sound fast when 100m/s is the maximum, but it's 67mph/108kph. When was the last time anyone took a hard left or right turn doing 70mph and didn't spin out or flip their car/truck? Even F1 cars tend to slide or spin if you push them hard enough around a fast corner, and they are perfectly engineered pancakes, not big, lumpy, unbalanced things with wonky suspension physics and wheels that Klang out at every opportunity...

In space it doesn't matter so long as you have room to make fast turns, you can turn as fast as you like- once you get close to a ship or asteroid, most people instinctively slow right down anyway- on a planet however you can't just hang a sharp turn and expect the rover to stay planted, especially tall ones with a short / narrow wheel base. When you look at the velocity indicator and it says say, 100mph instead of 50m/s, you might think twice before jerking the steering to make a direction change.

It's not rocket science to appreciate such a suggestion ( literally... ) when you think of it in more real-world terms- forget space ships and engineering challenges, think: driving simulator. And yes, SE does have a driving simulator mechanic to it- that's what the wheels are for ( I never said SE was a driving game- I dislike it when people twist or ignore what actually I said to further their already defeated counter argument ):

"Every driving game I can think of uses mph and kph, if you build a rover in SE it becomes a driving game, of sorts- guess which units of speed measurement would make more sense..."

vs

"SE is not a driving game. SE does not have real-scale driving environments. Your argument of sense-making of one unit over another is null and void."

The driving environments are actually very well scaled- the size of the planet is all that is shrunk down ( scale and size are two different things, but I'm sure you knew that really... )- the trees, the lakes, the hills, the cliffs and the large rocks with Ore inside are all very much scaled appropriately to give a planet-like environment and interaction experience whether it be on foot, or in a vehicle of some sort. My argument is perfectly sound.

@Meno Wansis - what? Did you not even look at what I wrote? Stop thinking about the issue in terms of space ships and engineering! Think about cars and rovers and TopGear. You literally ignored the whole point of my reply, just basically repeated what you already said without considering any of what I said, or why I said it, and expect me to just agree with you. Wake up, look at the last post myself and Burstar made, and think about driving on planets, not calculating thrust to weight ratios as those have nothing much to do with the issue at hand- your head is in entirely the wrong place dude. I mean seriously, look at this shit:

"To get from 100 m/s to 0 within 10 seconds, you need to decelerate at (100 / 10 = ) 10 m/s. Using F = m * a you know that it takes a force (F) of 1 N to accelerate 1 kg (m) by 1 m/s (a) or 10 N to accelerate by 10 m/s. So a 60,000 kg ship needs a force of (60,000 * 10 = ) 600 kN to accelerate by 10 m/s. 1 small ion thruster has a force of 12 kN, so it would take (600 / 12 = ) 50 small ion thrusters to get to a full stop within 10 seconds. The small hydrogen thruster has a thrust of 82 kN so it would take only 7.3 of those. Alternatively the 900 kN (small grid) large thruster would stop your ship in only (900000 / 60000 = 15 m/s, 100 / 15 = ) 6.66 seconds."

Who the hell outside of of an engineering class or Nasa is gonna spend that much time trying to figure out how many thrusters they need on a space ship, in a computer game, when in reality 99.9% of players slap down what feels like a good number of thrusters, then just adds more until the ship handles okay? SE is not Kerbal, not even close when it comes to that side of things- you just have zero appreciation for how this game is played by the vast majority of players so expect everyone to bow down at the mighty alter of mathematics instead. Sorry dude, we worship Klang.

Also is was Zachary who said speed units are arbitrary- I knew I read it somewhere, I'm not going mad after all...

Finally, someone put into words the argument you couldn't.

Zach, Burstar said the same thing I've been saying all along, he just expanded on it slightly because it's so obvious what I was saying, not trying to say; I can't help it if you and what'shisname don't understand plain English.

No, he didn't. If you had opened with that, this whole thing wouldn't have happened. And the fact that you thanked him for putting it into words shows that you knew your argument wasn't getting across, and it was most likely because of your inability to do so.

Bullshit. I literally said over and over again that kph or mph was more meaningful than m/s, which is also what Burstar said and expanded upon it by stating that there were complaints about crashing rovers due to not understanding m/s. That's why I thanked him- not because I couldn't get my point across, but because he also understood my point and gave an example of why my suggestion was a good one. Your reading comprehension is worse than mine it seems.

And again, that wasn't the argument. Which you would know if you had actually read his comments.

Yes, Burstar put into words what you couldn't. You wanting your comments to mean that does not mean they do. This was one big misunderstanding, and the fact that you even refused to listen to the other side didn't help.

Grow up, learn something from this, and listen to what the other side is actually saying next time.

Hah- insisting that I didn't read his comments over and over again doesn't change the reality of the situation; he couldn't handle that I didn't agree with him and had a hissy fit- which is exactly what you're doing now. The fact I took the time to quote him and my direct replies kinda disproves everything you've said. Telling me to grow up when all I've done is defend myself against harrassing comments kinda makes me think you two are the ones that need to grow up.

The only lesson here for me to learn is not to argue with idiots; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their superior experience.

Yawn. You found another quote to use for feigning intellect, you oversensitive snowflake who couldn't handle a few elaborative questions. "Oh no, he asked several related questions in a row, clearly he only did that to torment me, and definitely not to, say, illustrate his train of thought! HALP IM BEIN OPPERSD!!"

"I literally said over and over again that kph or mph was more meaningful than m/s,"

Yes, and I said that, no, it is NOT more meaningful. It is not because you don't get to blanket-assign the amount of meaning to a term and use such wording in your underhanded attempt at making your suggestion sound more representative. And least of all you get to assign meaning based on entirely subjective familiarity, especially with your idiotically circular, even up-side-down, reasoning, you fanatic, blinkered crybaby. In the odd chance that I repeat myself: "km/h in real cars, therefore km/h in SE cars" is not a reasoning in favour of meaning. "long travels on real land, therefore km/h in real cars", however, is. Therefore, until "long travels on SE land" becomes a thing (which, given the current game design and limitation, is doubtful to arrive any time soon), you don't get to argue using meaningfulness as a supporting factor. And neither using familiarity: Nice that the unit looks familiar, but that doesn't diminish the fact that your distance and time scales, as far as travelling on wheels is concerned (please, you're only insulting yourself when you attempt to counter by stating that SE trees are still the same scale as RL trees), are still completely incomparable to real-world distances and times. You might as well be measuring distances and times in football fields (either kind) and smoke breaks for all it mattered, and for some funny reason you're not asking for these, too.

This, and ONLY this was, has been, is, and will be, my core argument in this joke of a discussion, the very argument you kept evading while playing your victim card. Not that it matters, I suppose; you haven't shown a single shred of reason so far, preferring agitated wailing instead of engaging in actually productive exchange and objective analysis of the respective opposites, why should you start now?

Remember what I said about him being abusive and having a tantrum because people wouldn't agree with his reasoning, and his entirely spurious comparisons and nonsensical made up units of measurement to try and validate said reasoning? Yeah, I wasn't wrong; anyone who doesn't agree with him gets insulted, anyone who offers valid reasons for why mph or kph make more sense get insulted- I still can't fathom why he gets so upset by such a reasonable idea- I'm not suggesting we sacrifice babies or something, just that we can have a more familiar unit of measurement for ground vehicles. Oh well, I tried- sometimes you can't win.

Not so fast.

I actually must thank BS for something in his last message and you for your follow-up agreement to it (no snark), for that was the very first time that SOMEONE brought substance to your ever-repeated vacuous argument of hurr-durr-meaningfulness:

"People flip their vehicles because of SE's wheels implementation, therefore the number should look more scary."

In other words: "SE wheels are broken, therefore scary km/h in SE cars"

Finally some actually substantial argument that can begin to claim relevance (and therefore: meaning!) to the gameworld in the first place, and I very much have neither reason nor intent to disagree with the notion of a more dangerous-looking number dissuading a user from trying to steer anyhow. But in the same breath I must say that this is still rooted within a shortcoming of the game as opposed to a facet where it could be made Even Better™:

Said dangerous-looking number would merely be a patch for a known issue, namely that you can either steer fully or not steer at all, unless you get some analogue control going. Meaning that instead of making a number look dangerous to dissuade users from running into a game limitation, wouldn't it be more beneficial to suggest that work rather be concentrated on removing or at least reducing that limitation?

So, really, thanks for that bit.

Apart from that, you're still an oversensitive snowflake who couldn't handle a few elaborative questions. (That's not an insult, that's an observation.) Also one that is of the opinion that the presence of insults and profanity, even in hyperbolic trace amounts, automatically invalidate the rest of the message and that it be far more worthwhile pointing fingers at said hyperbole than addressing said rest. What an intelligent character.

Dude, did you even read my very first reply to your question of 'why kph/mph'?

"There is no real tangible benefit besides it being a more familiar unit of measurement, and as such more meaningful for those occasions when you're racing a rover across a lake or grassy plane for example; flipping at 50m/s doesn't really sound that much... flipping at 180mph does... :D"

So, when I mention the issue of flipping a rover at high speed = "pfft, you're a moron for suggesting that using kph would make players more aware of that happening since those units of speed are more easily understandable"

When Burstar says the exact same thing ( and references it being a common complaint ) = "finally, someone fleshed out your suggestion so that it makes sense."

Go fuck yourself- you're the one that doesn't read what I say, and there is the proof of it.

You're right about steering with WASD being hazardous, but that's all we have until keen support steering wheels and pedals, and is a separate issue.

"The only lesson here for me to learn is not to argue with idiots; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with their superior experience."

You're one to talk.

It's none of your business at this point- you are not a mod, you have no authority, they aren't interested either; go find something better to do.

Just couldn't help but add a "you're a moron for", could you? And you wonder why that aspect ended up getting buried so deeply into oblivion that it took a hundred posts AND someone other than you to bring it back to light …

1) para-phrasing + hyperbole- you do know I wasn't directly quoting you, right? Anyway...

2) Maybe if you actually read and understood the issue with flipping + speed + speed units then it wouldn't have taken someone else to remind you that was my point all along.

You're on a public forum, and insulting me personally. It is my fucking business.

Fuck off then and I'll stop insulting you for telling me what to do :)

1) Neither paraphrasing nor hyperboles don't entitle you to forge entirely new elements into the original message.

2) Keyword again being "someone else". Why do you keep arguing against your own case?

"Neither paraphrasing nor hyperboles don't entitle you" - Crap, bad (re-) wording. Should have been "Neither paraphrasing nor hyperboles entitle you".

Or... you could just stop insulting everyone that calls you out for being a piece of shit, causing more people to call you out on your shittiness. What a way the world works.

How about no? :)

Anders-

1) I wasn't inserting new elements to twist your words- you obviously don't understand the concept of paraphrasing or hyperbole. At no point did you ever say those exact words, that was just the gist of what you said- get it? Probably not, but never mind.

2) I wasn't arguing against my own case ( that makes no sense ), I was pointing out that YOU were arguing against it until Burstar also raised the issue ( of flipping + speed ) , at which point you decided to stop arguing against it and then changed tactics, insisting that I wasn't clear enough the first time around, even though I couldn't have been any clearer if I tried. Now you're still trying to pretend that this is anyone fault but yours for failing to understand my post- don't blame me for your mistake or oversight.

There is a difference between exaggeration or adding expletives on one hand and on outright putting a fucking insult into fucking somebody's fucking mouth, you blundering, useless, stinking, subhuman, shitstained, self-indulgent sack of biohazard waste with the face of a run-over Happy Meal.

(Homework: Mark the hyperboles and the insults.)

Yeah, you still don't understand the concept of paraphrasing- also, you've called me far worse than a moron, so if anything I down-played the kind of things you said to me during your daily rants. I'm sure your parents love you though- somebody must do, surely...

Evidently, neither do you because in my earlier post I did not at all address paraphrasing, only hyperboles and insults. You really love to insult your own intellect, don't you? Try screaming into a pillow the next time you're about to respond to anything in this thread, maybe that'll remove the rage haze from your view so that you spot the important bits again.

I wasn't addressing that post, just your previous one still where you didn't understand. Try having someone press a pillow over your face next time you go to sleep, hopefully you won't wake up :)

Yep, I explained that to 'him' but it doesn't matter apparently- all he said is:

"I don't care what unit rovers used to have their speed measured in, all I care about is the number that I can memorise if necessary because THIS number in THIS world indicates safe or non-safe speeds."

Because having to experiment and lose countless rovers is far easier than say, looking at the speedo and thinking 'hmm, maybe 200kph is a bit fast to try and turn sharply when I know that the wheels either slide forever or dig in without warning at any speed.' This will be even more of an issue for beginners, and we're about to get a lot more of them quite soon once the game leaves open beta in a few days...

I know, that's my main task this weekend, check all my scripts, change them for things like inventory getitem that have changed

You are describing Anders more than you are describing me- I haven't trolled other threads, I've only given as good as I've got. Try reading Anders comments towards myself and Burstar before accusing me of being a troll- I don't think you know what trolling is, nor hyperbole- was I really suggesting someone kill them-self, or was I just being mean spirited towards them in return for them doing the same to me? You need to get a grip on reality, maybe get out more and thicken your skin a little.

Oh yeah, and no- they have no code of conduct for members- there are in fact ZERO forum features- no moderators, no filters, no messaging, no report function. I contacted them about an issue recently and was told they will only act on something if there is racist or bigoted comments ( sexism ).

So that means you get free reign to suggest people go commit suicide? Do you have no sense of decency?

No sense of decency? Then what are you doing here?

It's a computer game forum dear, there are no entry requirements.