Sector management and engeneering of constraints to introduce non linear "reasons to play"
Each sector outside of the first should have an aditional unique constraint to deal with in the form of environmental presence of factions and evidence of civilizations and colonization efforts of different factions under different themes and with different consequences and states of affairs when loaded that could be made procedurally generated. Bellow will be the general view and the constraints I would like to see implimented as a broad depiction of the system.
(a). "easy" Visual sandstorms, High winds at varying frequencies in their emergence preventing "traditional ship designs" from flight within certain key periods.
(b). "hard" Visual storms delivering acid rain or acting as molten glass hail shredding light armor under prolongued exposure of sonic debris, layer by layer. (gives a reason for Heavy armor being used at strategic locations for more then gun protection and the doubling of glass layers in large exposed cockpits if at all viable depending on frequency of the constraint)
(c) Mixing a) and b) to create a near no fly zone enforcing the need for rocket Payload delivery and small lightweight crafts with inflated thrust to weight ratio for stability of flight through these events should they be generated to be non stop for a while with a priority on ground based harvesting such as tracked platform that act like oil rigs do in the ocean but for the soil. or small excavation mole drills.
(d) With the introduction of Acid Rain comes an interesting desicion to make. Wether a Water World should be generated like Neptune and Uranus and thus allowing also the introduction of sulfuric acid instead of water being the main ingredient of Water worlds. as Gas giant Worlds like Jupiter and Saturn are simulated through (c) applying both (a,b) constraints perpetually even if the planet bellow is still Amagest. Water worlds may seem more trouble to simulate then they are worth but they add an entirely new dimension to this game by introducing the ability to use Pipes, Filters, Ballasts, Liquid cargo containers and Pumps to harness water for hydrogen and water for survival needs at industrial scales due to the availability, not to mention other forms of liquid and solid ressources present at higher tresholds of pressures in real life within planetary cores. This thus creates a reason for controlling the sector that naturally explains the greater presence on its boarders of NPC fleets, its rarer appearence (For CPU and balancing reasons) and the PVP value of controlling such a world being indespensible to sustain large fleet operations. This gives a sense of progression without the reliance on quests and opens the ability to simulate more neutral roles should a faction system be introduced. As well as introducing a "tower defense" where the health is less so health and more so presence of factions within the world you are outposted upon and "seeking to control" or seeking to negotiate control through further diplomatic mechanics.
The introduction of Liquids and a water world means to have liquid metals and liquid gasses of all kinds be collected that could serve chemistry modules for gunpowder medicine and various new crafting goods that introduces either quality of life (combat dr*gs, biochemistry) or new mechanical implications that can be deactivated or activated before the generation of the world because they are not required to play the game, they are required to play the game at a new scale of operation where it becomes less like minecraft sandbox and more so like a FPS stelaris depending on the settings and constraints you do chose to generate across saves and servers.
(e) Factions should behave similarly to Kenshi yet, unlike it, I envison the ability to become a neutral ship yard, or "gas station" for factions controlling water worlds, a local trading hubb of the controlled ressources as players will naturally want to control more ressources and seek to create operation bases thus creating the ability to introduce a proper diplomatic system where if a planet is taken from a faction but good prices are given in exchenge of monopolizing it, then charging the "fair price" to other faction would buffer the loss in relationshions enough as long as the enemy presence didn't require you to destroy dozens of ships... Which thus introduces a need to have an allied faction attack them on your behalf without losing your relations again, in exchenge for lowered prices or military assistance for when they shop at your station or require your assistance.... Or one may do the reverse and act as a pirate upon the existing NPC infrastructure and become a Tyrant that quickly becomes considered a target by all factions.
The ability to be a pirate that is appreciated by certain factions is not to be underhestimated as it means to act as a saboteur and infiltrator are now viable paths as well.
The enforcement of constraints Should not be seen as detrimental to the player for they add reasons to build, reasons to think, reasons to play.
(f). Lets talk Contracts or more accuratly their relationships with the world. They should serve as linear introductions and tutorials to each constraints present within the sector and how to deal with them. But it should also be more then that, it should be a terminal for general information on all "registered" factions. This is where in PVP or PVE the player checks teh CPU count of the faction to guage their relative sizes in infrastructure. Where allies and enemies are displayed, where trade offers can be organizes. It should serve as a diplomatic interaction and neutral ground for factions in PVP whilst in PVE this function is less necessary outside of an access point to manage the "stelaris" portion of the game... It could also display the ressources within outposts of the player's faction and allied factions to relevent to the user. Mercenary contracts, acts of sabotage, inflitration of weapons or items made illegal under certain factions. Breaching contracts made through this terminal between factions means to loose access to that station entirely and have that station generate mercenary contracts upon you for other factions to take.
1. Current sectors serve as the newbie safezone with the very limited encounters of armed things and serves as the playground of any survival and creative players seeking a "simple" baseline version of the game.
2. The "Hard" sectors will contain the furthering emergence of danger and constraints and then some systems will have multiple of those constraints at once, each more extreme then the next Each constraints within Sectors FORCE the engineer to adapt, to itterate, to create, regardless of the gamemode.
3. The "Extreme" Sectors will render even flight outside of planetary conditions dangerous either because of enemy conflict at the scale of full blown wars. Or because of the condition of the Stars in the system being unstable creating Ion storms that creates an EMP on all electronics that aren't protected by one of the introduced blocks this system would require to adapt with lead plates shielding batteries and reactors becoming a hard requirement to even consider navigating the zone. Or a combination of another constraints of enemy presence additionally creates a natural barrier to balance the introduction of greater ressource harvesting and yielding rewards from engaging with enemies and dangers alongside the introduction of liquid management for large scale throughput of ressources and economical influence.
I also want to point out that if water mechanics can be "nailed down" it may be easier to first create displacement mechanics for sand and snow whilst adding Tracks and skis. Frozen worlds of ice, empty worlds of softly packed space dust on moons and a general responsiveness to the terrain outside of drills but also helping make them more realistic as you dig through hard surface and sand trickles into the hole until a funnel is formed... That way displacement of that soil from creations and how to simulate it in practice becomes a tool that will help the development of water surface mechanics, gateways to mechanics such as boyancy and water displacement from blocks "with trapped air" (gaps). Requiring little more then a pressure gradiant and aerodynamics to be added onto that earlier mechanic of soil displacement and the optimization on CPU to simulate intensive physics. which would determine the viability of water worlds being introduced as the next planet type after the "gas giant" concept proposed above and the "soft shelled" planets and moons acting as a bridge where storms are more present makes more sense because of loose soil. (more constraints= more ressources and more ressources= More presence convetting and using those ressources) is the general truth to follow there as to give reasons to brave the elements without having to use a linear system of quests.
Feel Free for anyone that read all this to give your CONSTRAINTS Idea bellow in the comments !!! =D
I like this feedback
Good post
I really like the idea of sectors being harder the further you go. I also think they need to be worth going into, not just for danger itself. For example making some ores more abundant, or adding special resources exclusive to those sectors.
Currently in SE1 there is no real reason to go to planets from space. Planets don't have uranium/platinum which makes them far less attractive in terms of mining. Mining on planets is also much harder than in space due to gravity.
Good post
I really like the idea of sectors being harder the further you go. I also think they need to be worth going into, not just for danger itself. For example making some ores more abundant, or adding special resources exclusive to those sectors.
Currently in SE1 there is no real reason to go to planets from space. Planets don't have uranium/platinum which makes them far less attractive in terms of mining. Mining on planets is also much harder than in space due to gravity.
similar archived topic: https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/46645-planetenvironment-hostility-aliens-animals-weather-atmosphere
The planet's environment is interconnected, one phenomenon depends on another and conditions the existence of a third....
I take it the "game planet" will be wilder and more varied than the "boring reality".
Many factors play a role in shaping a planet's environment - among them the age of the planet. Is the planet young, recently (<2 billion years) formed? Will it have a relatively dense atmosphere with no oxygen... Conversely, is the planet old (>6-8 billion years old)? It won't have water and the atmosphere will be thin.
Important point: does the planet have a magnetic field? This also determines what the atmosphere will be like and whether the planet will retain water longer than the first few billion years.
High/low gravity
Depends mainly on the size of the planet - and directly affects the density of the atmosphere. A heavy planet will retain a very dense atmosphere much longer than a light planet.
Movement on a planet could be facilitated by an exoskeleton, but even that has its limits of usefulness. High gravity planets are also difficult to fly on.
Too large and heavy planets (>3-4G) are "uninhabitable", only remotely operated machines can be used to build them... Too small and light planets (<0.25G) lose their atmosphere very quickly and turn into moon-like worlds.
Unbreathable and aggressive atmosphere
What is the composition of the atmosphere? What gases make up the atmosphere? Does the planet have water? How old is the planet? Does it have a magnetic field? What is the equilibrium temperature of the planet? How much energy does it receive from its star, what is the radiation flux? (Venus 2610 W/m2; Earth 1363 W/m2; Mars 591 W/m2)
If a planet's atmosphere contains water, aggressive gases such as HF, HCl, H2S, SO2, but also CO2 or even NH3 will very quickly (in geological time, literally in an instant) be washed out of the atmosphere by rain and react with the rocks of the planetary crust to form stable compounds. If the planet doesn't have water (why?), the reactions with the rocks proceed, albeit more slowly, but persistently, so that after a billion years they combine with the rocks on the planet's surface to form stable compounds and the atmosphere ceases to be aggressive. There is indeed sulfuric acid in the atmosphere on Venus - but mainly in clouds high above the surface, not near the surface.
The young planet will have mainly hydrogen H2, methane CH4, ammonia NH3, nitrogen N2, water/water vapour H2O, carbon dioxide CO2, perhaps carbon monoxide CO, hydrogen sulphide H2S and sulphur dioxide SO2 in its atmosphere. However, some combinations are mutually exclusive. Old planets will have atmospheres of CO2 and N2, hydrogen compounds will go out, hydrogen will be blown out of the atmosphere in billions of years by solar/stellar winds.
Environment and weather
Volcanoes - depends on the age of the planet. Young planets often rebel, old worlds are sleepy and calm... Volcanoes do not form randomly, rather complex geological conditions must be met.
Storms and weather are heavily dependent on the flow of sunlight because that is the energy source that drives them. But they also depend on the density of the atmosphere... On Venus in a 100atm atmosphere a moderate wind of 10 m/s will reliably knock a person off his feet, on Mars you will experience a "hurricane" of 100 m/s just because the air is a bit dustier there...
For lightning to exist, there must be solid particles in the atmosphere - ice crystals, dust... - and they must be moving in the "right way" in the "right place". Otherwise, the electric charge will not accumulate in the necessary quantity.
Meteorites - every day "two truckloads" (30 - 50 tons) of dust, sand and pebbles hit our Earth... The atmosphere is a very reliable shield that only a body with a diameter in the tens of meters has a chance to break through - and remnants with a size of 1 - 2 meters will hit the ground if they do not completely disintegrate...
Biosphere
The alien biosphere is aggressive - but it's aggressiveness on the level of bacteria. Unknown aggressive diseases and infections thus threaten...
But the terrestrial biosphere, which every engineer carries within himself, will be equally aggressive and expansive towards the alien biosphere. Biological warfare at its most entertaining
I don't think that alien animals, except for the most primitive insect-type organisms (perhaps down to fish - organisms governed only by reflexes and instincts, with no significant ability to learn), will automatically be aggressive towards an engineer and his creations.
Animals do not react this way. An animal doesn't usually attack unfamiliar things - it has no reason to. Important thing - the animal does not waste energy.
Animals usually ignore the engineer's creations; they don't match the animal's usual diet, nor the usual prey, nor the usual local predators (nor sexual partners, for that matter).
Another important thing - virtually no animal is a kamikaze; when wounded and in pain, it retreats very quickly, breaks off the fight, and runs away. It is simply the instinct of self-preservation, a necessary equipment of organisms for survival.
In the words of the story of the dinosaurs, "When ten tons of flesh chase other ten tons of flesh, it will not pay attention to a hundred kilograms of flesh - at most it will trample them..."
"Terrestrial animals" can only occur on planets where terraforming has already taken place and a complete terrestrial-type biosphere has formed. Otherwise, no. And on such planets the engineer has nothing to look for... (except for stories like "The Lost Colony")
And a very important note: Alien animals are not telepaths either. Each individual is an individual, and practically does not communicate with others at a higher level.
Animal communication has clear goals: finding a mate for reproduction, territorial claims, in herd animals warning of danger, communicating a food source... Nothing that could serve as a basis for a mass attack on a base or other technical objects.
similar archived topic: https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/46645-planetenvironment-hostility-aliens-animals-weather-atmosphere
The planet's environment is interconnected, one phenomenon depends on another and conditions the existence of a third....
I take it the "game planet" will be wilder and more varied than the "boring reality".
Many factors play a role in shaping a planet's environment - among them the age of the planet. Is the planet young, recently (<2 billion years) formed? Will it have a relatively dense atmosphere with no oxygen... Conversely, is the planet old (>6-8 billion years old)? It won't have water and the atmosphere will be thin.
Important point: does the planet have a magnetic field? This also determines what the atmosphere will be like and whether the planet will retain water longer than the first few billion years.
High/low gravity
Depends mainly on the size of the planet - and directly affects the density of the atmosphere. A heavy planet will retain a very dense atmosphere much longer than a light planet.
Movement on a planet could be facilitated by an exoskeleton, but even that has its limits of usefulness. High gravity planets are also difficult to fly on.
Too large and heavy planets (>3-4G) are "uninhabitable", only remotely operated machines can be used to build them... Too small and light planets (<0.25G) lose their atmosphere very quickly and turn into moon-like worlds.
Unbreathable and aggressive atmosphere
What is the composition of the atmosphere? What gases make up the atmosphere? Does the planet have water? How old is the planet? Does it have a magnetic field? What is the equilibrium temperature of the planet? How much energy does it receive from its star, what is the radiation flux? (Venus 2610 W/m2; Earth 1363 W/m2; Mars 591 W/m2)
If a planet's atmosphere contains water, aggressive gases such as HF, HCl, H2S, SO2, but also CO2 or even NH3 will very quickly (in geological time, literally in an instant) be washed out of the atmosphere by rain and react with the rocks of the planetary crust to form stable compounds. If the planet doesn't have water (why?), the reactions with the rocks proceed, albeit more slowly, but persistently, so that after a billion years they combine with the rocks on the planet's surface to form stable compounds and the atmosphere ceases to be aggressive. There is indeed sulfuric acid in the atmosphere on Venus - but mainly in clouds high above the surface, not near the surface.
The young planet will have mainly hydrogen H2, methane CH4, ammonia NH3, nitrogen N2, water/water vapour H2O, carbon dioxide CO2, perhaps carbon monoxide CO, hydrogen sulphide H2S and sulphur dioxide SO2 in its atmosphere. However, some combinations are mutually exclusive. Old planets will have atmospheres of CO2 and N2, hydrogen compounds will go out, hydrogen will be blown out of the atmosphere in billions of years by solar/stellar winds.
Environment and weather
Volcanoes - depends on the age of the planet. Young planets often rebel, old worlds are sleepy and calm... Volcanoes do not form randomly, rather complex geological conditions must be met.
Storms and weather are heavily dependent on the flow of sunlight because that is the energy source that drives them. But they also depend on the density of the atmosphere... On Venus in a 100atm atmosphere a moderate wind of 10 m/s will reliably knock a person off his feet, on Mars you will experience a "hurricane" of 100 m/s just because the air is a bit dustier there...
For lightning to exist, there must be solid particles in the atmosphere - ice crystals, dust... - and they must be moving in the "right way" in the "right place". Otherwise, the electric charge will not accumulate in the necessary quantity.
Meteorites - every day "two truckloads" (30 - 50 tons) of dust, sand and pebbles hit our Earth... The atmosphere is a very reliable shield that only a body with a diameter in the tens of meters has a chance to break through - and remnants with a size of 1 - 2 meters will hit the ground if they do not completely disintegrate...
Biosphere
The alien biosphere is aggressive - but it's aggressiveness on the level of bacteria. Unknown aggressive diseases and infections thus threaten...
But the terrestrial biosphere, which every engineer carries within himself, will be equally aggressive and expansive towards the alien biosphere. Biological warfare at its most entertaining
I don't think that alien animals, except for the most primitive insect-type organisms (perhaps down to fish - organisms governed only by reflexes and instincts, with no significant ability to learn), will automatically be aggressive towards an engineer and his creations.
Animals do not react this way. An animal doesn't usually attack unfamiliar things - it has no reason to. Important thing - the animal does not waste energy.
Animals usually ignore the engineer's creations; they don't match the animal's usual diet, nor the usual prey, nor the usual local predators (nor sexual partners, for that matter).
Another important thing - virtually no animal is a kamikaze; when wounded and in pain, it retreats very quickly, breaks off the fight, and runs away. It is simply the instinct of self-preservation, a necessary equipment of organisms for survival.
In the words of the story of the dinosaurs, "When ten tons of flesh chase other ten tons of flesh, it will not pay attention to a hundred kilograms of flesh - at most it will trample them..."
"Terrestrial animals" can only occur on planets where terraforming has already taken place and a complete terrestrial-type biosphere has formed. Otherwise, no. And on such planets the engineer has nothing to look for... (except for stories like "The Lost Colony")
And a very important note: Alien animals are not telepaths either. Each individual is an individual, and practically does not communicate with others at a higher level.
Animal communication has clear goals: finding a mate for reproduction, territorial claims, in herd animals warning of danger, communicating a food source... Nothing that could serve as a basis for a mass attack on a base or other technical objects.
Interesting ideas, add a lava planet :). Radiation/Environmental/Travel/Security requirements for exploration to get better access, interesting ideas for gameplay development of the exploration barriers...could make 'progression' based on something other than just tech upgrades, access is restricted and 'gated' to players. Either faction standing or dynamic relations, makes it a grand strategy game.
1. "...and have that station generate mercenary contracts upon you for other factions to take." And players, as well? Can we accespt those 'bounty' contracts, unless the other guy can pay off his escrow at a contract terminal to cancel his bounty? Interesting.
2. "I also want to point out that if water mechanics can be "nailed down" it may be easier to first create displacement mechanics for sand and snow whilst adding Tracks and skis. Frozen worlds of ice, empty worlds of softly packed space dust on moons and a general responsiveness to the terrain outside of drills but also helping make them more realistic as you dig through hard surface and sand trickles into the hole until a funnel is formed... That way displacement of that soil from creations and how to simulate it in practice becomes a tool that will help the development of water surface mechanics"
...."Requiring little more then a pressure gradiant and aerodynamics to be added onto that earlier mechanic of soil displacement and the optimization on CPU to simulate intensive physics. which would determine the viability of water worlds being introduced as the next planet type after the "gas giant" concept proposed above and the "soft shelled" planets and moons acting as a bridge where storms are more present makes more sense because of loose soil..."
When water physics are introduced and optimized...will there be a 'voxel-water' physics engine unification for building complete worlds...? If the water physics is optimized enough, can it be used to generate an entire world? If you take -just- a metric like viscosity...then dirt is 'hard', ice is 'medium hard', water is 'medium', vapor is 'medium low', and air is 'low'...could the water physics simulation engine be pushed that far without crashing frame-rates? Nvidia has some interesting physics papers coming, maybe possibility for the future development, the devs have already looked at this with Bylbos. Lava planets ftw! lol
3. Nobody has really mentioned petroleum as a resource, with liquids now, and it's implication of 'rubber' on production blocks. Maybe...organic matter has not had enough time for 'earth brought' organics to die and be compressed. So...no carbon diamonds, either? Or coal?
Interesting ideas, add a lava planet :). Radiation/Environmental/Travel/Security requirements for exploration to get better access, interesting ideas for gameplay development of the exploration barriers...could make 'progression' based on something other than just tech upgrades, access is restricted and 'gated' to players. Either faction standing or dynamic relations, makes it a grand strategy game.
1. "...and have that station generate mercenary contracts upon you for other factions to take." And players, as well? Can we accespt those 'bounty' contracts, unless the other guy can pay off his escrow at a contract terminal to cancel his bounty? Interesting.
2. "I also want to point out that if water mechanics can be "nailed down" it may be easier to first create displacement mechanics for sand and snow whilst adding Tracks and skis. Frozen worlds of ice, empty worlds of softly packed space dust on moons and a general responsiveness to the terrain outside of drills but also helping make them more realistic as you dig through hard surface and sand trickles into the hole until a funnel is formed... That way displacement of that soil from creations and how to simulate it in practice becomes a tool that will help the development of water surface mechanics"
...."Requiring little more then a pressure gradiant and aerodynamics to be added onto that earlier mechanic of soil displacement and the optimization on CPU to simulate intensive physics. which would determine the viability of water worlds being introduced as the next planet type after the "gas giant" concept proposed above and the "soft shelled" planets and moons acting as a bridge where storms are more present makes more sense because of loose soil..."
When water physics are introduced and optimized...will there be a 'voxel-water' physics engine unification for building complete worlds...? If the water physics is optimized enough, can it be used to generate an entire world? If you take -just- a metric like viscosity...then dirt is 'hard', ice is 'medium hard', water is 'medium', vapor is 'medium low', and air is 'low'...could the water physics simulation engine be pushed that far without crashing frame-rates? Nvidia has some interesting physics papers coming, maybe possibility for the future development, the devs have already looked at this with Bylbos. Lava planets ftw! lol
3. Nobody has really mentioned petroleum as a resource, with liquids now, and it's implication of 'rubber' on production blocks. Maybe...organic matter has not had enough time for 'earth brought' organics to die and be compressed. So...no carbon diamonds, either? Or coal?
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