Armor Weapons and shields and the future of depth in combat

jake R shared this feedback 20 days ago
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link to the video on youtube


When we talk about ship combat in a game like Space Engineers 2, durability shouldn’t just come down to how many hit points a block has.

Instead, ship survivability should come from three core systems working together: armor design, shield engineering, and the way weapons interact with those systems.

The goal is to make combat feel less like shooting health bars, and more like fighting real engineered spacecraft.

Let’s start with armor.

In Space Engineers, armor already exists in two materials: light armor and heavy armor, and in two grid scales: small grid and large grid. These differences can naturally represent different levels of protection in a penetration-based damage system.

Light armor works well as structural plating. It’s lightweight, inexpensive, and great for shaping hulls or building internal framework. But it shouldn’t stop serious weapons. Most kinetic rounds should be able to punch through light armor unless it’s angled or layered.

Heavy armor, on the other hand, represents dense protective plating. This is the kind of armor you would place around reactors, hydrogen tanks, ammunition storage, and bridge sections. It should be significantly harder to penetrate.

Grid size can also represent physical thickness. Large-grid armor naturally represents thicker structural sections, while small-grid armor provides lighter protection suited for smaller craft.

But armor isn’t just about material. Geometry matters too.

Space Engineers already gives players wedges, slopes, and corner pieces, and these shapes could influence how weapons interact with armor.

Flat armor provides consistent protection but offers little chance to deflect incoming fire. Sloped armor increases the likelihood that projectiles will lose penetration energy or ricochet. Carefully shaped hulls could effectively increase armor thickness and deflection angles.

This means ship protection wouldn’t just come from stacking blocks—it would come from how you design your ship.

Now let’s talk about shields.

Instead of being a simple health bar, shield strength should depend on three main things: emitter size, emitter quantity, and total power input.

Shield emitters would come in multiple sizes and would scale with the amount of reactor power supplied to them. However, they wouldn’t have unlimited efficiency. The more power you push through an emitter, the less efficient it becomes.

This encourages players to spread shield generation across multiple emitters instead of relying on a single oversized generator.

Each emitter would also protect only a portion of the ship.

For example, a small emitter might cover roughly twenty-five meters of hull area around where it’s installed. A larger ship would therefore need multiple emitters distributed along its structure.

If you had a ship around seventy meters long, you might need an emitter near the bow, another near the stern, and one near the center. Depending on the height of the vessel, you might also need emitters on the top or bottom of the hull.

This turns shield placement into a real engineering challenge.

Another important mechanic is shield projection distance.

The larger the emitter and the more power you feed into it, the farther away from the hull the shield projects.

Small emitters create shields that hug the ship’s surface closely. Larger emitters generate shield bubbles that extend farther out.

This has an important gameplay consequence.

When a shield sits farther away from the hull, it creates space between the shield and the ship itself. Smaller ships, fast strike craft, or specialized torpedoes could potentially slip inside the shield bubble and hit the hull directly.

This prevents shields from becoming simple damage sponges and adds interesting tactical opportunities during combat.

In terms of balance, smaller ships with shields would have lower overall shield durability, but their shields would sit very close to the hull, tightly following the ship’s outer shape.

Larger ships would have stronger shields but larger gaps between the shield surface and the hull, creating opportunities for shield bypass attacks.

Smaller emitters would also recharge faster, while larger emitters would provide greater protection but recharge more slowly and require significantly more power.

Now finally, we get to how weapons interact with all of this.

Weapons shouldn’t just deal raw damage. They should behave differently depending on penetration, deflection, and explosive interaction.

For example, explosive weapons should interact with armor realistically.

If a missile detonates against spaced armor two meters away from the hull, and the blast radius is three meters, the explosion should destroy the outer plate but fail to damage the hull itself.

That means spaced armor becomes a meaningful defensive system.

Kinetic weapons would interact with armor based on angle and penetration capability.

Gatling guns might penetrate thin armor but bounce off heavy angled plates. Autocannons could punch through medium armor but deflect at shallow angles. Railguns might penetrate multiple layers of armor entirely.

This creates a rock-paper-scissors relationship between weapons, armor thickness, and ship design.

A well-engineered ship might have a thin outer hull, spaced armor plating, and internal armored compartments protecting critical systems.

In combat, missiles could blow away the outer armor while leaving the hull intact. Smaller weapons might bounce off angled plating. And heavier weapons could punch deep into the ship until they finally reach something critical.

The result is a combat system where engineering matters.

Ships survive not because they have the most health, but because they were designed intelligently.

And in a game about building spacecraft, that’s exactly what ship combat should reward.

Replies (9)

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Good job bringing up this issue. One thing is sure, we need better combat mechanics in SE2. Armor shape, shields or thermal mechanics, anything that can spice up the combat tactics and strategies, reward you for clever design, and prevent gunbricks domination :)

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IMHO shields are very hard to do right because they are just wrong as a concept in general.


As they are not backed by any known physics, then all design decisions are pure magical and it is hard to design consistent and objective rules what and under what conditions can go through shield.


Is it velocity? Is it mass? Is it both? Can "friendly" objects pass? Can engineer with grinder pass through? Can "terrain" pass (but allow landing?) What about crash? What about "bump" and ramming? Are rules symmetric regarding in/out direction? What if something detonates just in front of shield does the explosion pass through? And so on and so on....


As the result most games implement them as just magically regenerating HP bar which leads to situations when it is a race of HP regen rate vs incoming DPS. If DPS is too low then there is no chance to even create scratch on the target. That leads to shield-centric meta because it is easiest and regenerating way of protection which just requires energy.


I'm not saying SE2 should not have shields because many people want them. What I'm saying that they require a lot of thought and are difficult to balance.


Instead I would focus on more options for point-defense - specialized rapid turrets, laser beams, smart missiles, drone swarms, reactive armor, EWAR.... maybe some blocks for damage control, maybe auto-repairing by micro drones/bots (consuming energy and materials) etc. anything which is not magically protecting the ship by just consuming energy which is easy to store and something which prevents situation when any participant can leave the battlefield with zero damage.


I love the idea of various damage types dealt by different kind of weapons. EVE Online has it quite nice: EM/Thermal/Kinetic/Explosive damage types. On top I would bring some kind of EWAR - jamming, masking, hacking etc.


But before any of this happens SE2 must develop solutions to problems which were known for long time based on SE1 experience, I'll just list few from top of my head:


1. Gunspam - just add more guns, up to the absurd levels. Without thermodynamics, recoil, structural integrity or any other mechanics to limit number of blocks, modders and server owners had to develop block limiters, grid cores, points etc.

Something like that needs to be added and balanced in the vanilla game of SE2.


2. Block spam - same problem but on more general level. Just add more armor. Ship to heavy? Add more thrusters. Add more gyroscopes. Shield too weak? Spam more reactors... again - I see it as a huge challenge for SE2 to implement this better, maybe taking inspiration from mods, maybe from multiplayer servers, maybe from other games....


3. Short range - dogfighting at few kilometers range is not happening even with current technology. In space it is just fantasy backed by Star Wars pew pew fighters with space wings.

There are good YT videos by SpaceDock explaining it so I'll not go into details here... the problem is that SE requires close range for any combat to happen.


4. Top speed limit, acceleration, no impact of G-force to crew - again, spam thrusters and gyroscopes and suddenly ship can outrun all fighters, torpedos, drones and missiles. And it can do crazy maneuvers even if they would kill the crew onboard.


5. Poor performance - swarms of drones, torpedos, explosions, damage, even projectiles could bring SE1 to sim speed of zero. SE2 will have to deal with that taking into account that grids will now have many more blocks than SE1.


Let's see what will be presented in VS2.2.

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Shields could have the disadvantage of being massive power hogs that cannot be maintained for too long. Then you get a different race to the bottom: Will you chew through the enemy armor first or will the shield run out first.

About the other problems:

Gunspam and range: A counter to lots of small guns could be considerably larger range for the big guns, which would make getting close an exercise in catching up to a long range opponent through a zone where he can hit you but not vice versa. This would make a smaller number of big guns more attractive. Think WW2 battleships. Also, guns are heavy which goes at the expense of acceleration.

Block spam in general: Add more armor => need more thrusters => need more gyros. So the big ship ends up being stronger? Well, it did cost more to build as well. Also, it is an awfully big target now. I thing this problem is not as bad as it sounds.

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I think the best way to mitigate gun spam is to introduce a very simple grid temperature mechanic, where weapons generate a significant amount of heat.

If you mount too many guns on a small ship, the rate at which the grid heats up would exceed its passive heat dissipation. That naturally creates a clear tradeoff. You can still mount as many guns as you want, but they will barely be able to fire.

On the other hand, if you install a reasonable number of weapons, you’ll be able to sustain a much higher fire rate. In this way, adding more guns would have a diminishing effect on sustained DPS. The only real advantage of stacking weapons would be a strong first volley, but over time a balanced setup would perform better.

Because of that, players would naturally avoid overloading ships with weapons, especially when you also consider other constraints like cost, PCU, energy usage and mass.

Larger ships would naturally be able to host more or stronger weapons. For example, heavy weapons like big railguns should realistically belong on capital ships. If you tried to mount a dozen railguns on a small corvette, not only would you need huge reactors (which you can fit ofc), but the heat generated by those weapons would guarantee a ridiculously low fire rate.

Again, we don’t need anything crazy for the vanilla game. Just one simple temperature bar for the entire grid, with weapons adding heat to it. The grid would dissipate heat over time depending on its total volume (including subgrids).

As a bonus, the Jump Drive could stop working above a certain temperature. Superconductors need to stay cool, you know ;)

That way, once you commit to a battle, there isn’t an easy one-button escape anymore.

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That's my point with shields - they are doable but they need a lot of thought and balancing.


Power consumption was almost never an issue in SE except mods or worlds which limited access to uranium and when meta is shield-centric then there is no chewing through enemy armor because everyone has shields - maxed to the max.

There are multiple concepts like shields heat, "hardening", side, management etc. but as I said, it requires a lot of thought, good design of rules how shield works and then proper implementation.


Then suddenly NPCs also need shields otherwise they will be farmed risk-free by players with shields.


Regarding gun/block spam I did not mean building big "realistic" ships where scale of ship matches its power but brick-like ships literally made of turrets or other repeated blocks (like attached example).

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@Irreality.net

"Gunspam"

-Heat would help inhibit excessive weapon placement on a ship of a given size.


"Blockspam"

-Economics? This one is less of an issue. Larger ships will have the advantage because physics says so. It takes more energy to destroy more material, and a larger ship logically would have greater capacity for destruction than a smaller one by virtue of simply having more surface area to mount weapons to. The tradeoff is that the larger one requires more material to build, and as a larger target is more likely to take hits requiring its crew spend more time and resources repairing it. This isn't to say we should just throw balance to the wind, but a larger craft representing a greater investment of time and resources should generally win against smaller craft (assuming similar quality of design and skill).

"Short Range"

-This is a feature, not a problem. While highly realistic sci-fi games and settings are cool, most people playing 1st/3rd person combat games want to see their hits land and their targets explode, something rather hard to do when distances get to the point that the ship itself has to do all the aiming because your target is so far away that it would be smaller than a single pixel on your 64" screen. You may enjoy it, I may occasionally enjoy it, but this is one of those instances where it becomes necessary to yield to the enjoyment of the common gamer for the sake of the community.


"Top speed limit, acceleration, no impact of G-force to crew"

-The speed limit is a mix of the game engine's ability to handle physics and a player's ability to see. What the engine can handle is up to Keen to work out, but even if they can bump it up infinitely they'll eventually have to stop just because players wont adequately be able to perceive their environment. The idea that your ship suddenly went from being a ship to being high-energy plasma because you were doing .25c and didn't have the ability to perceive some waste-stone a miner on a near-by asteroid accidentally spat in to your path stops being amusing really quickly for most people. Much like short range, this one will probably require we yield it to the enjoyment of the average player.

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You're right to complain, but it's pointless.

Unless the game were built on at least roughly physically accurate and consistent foundations and rules, you’ll keep complaining.


The author writes about various effects of a projectile hitting an obstacle...

For example, the projectile’s ricochet...

But according to the linked video, he doesn’t understand at all how, when, and why a projectile ricochets. What effect does impact velocity have? What effect do the densities of the projectile and the armor have? What effect do the hardnesses of the projectile and the armor have? How does the ratio of the projectile’s caliber to the armor’s thickness affect things? How does the shape of the projectile’s warhead affect things? Why was the anti-armor caped shell invented, and how does it work?

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Projectile deflection/penetration would be nice, SE1 has it so I imagine some form will eventually show up in SE2.


Shields are a cool concept, but the health bar that they are will probably break combat by forming a hard meta around shields and acceleration the same way it always does, that you need multiple emitters and a big reactor will not change that.

-Diminishing Returns: People will probably pick where they find most efficient (as determined by evaluating roughly where the extra mass/space required eats in to their ability to evade so much that it results in a net reduction in survival time). This will have some variation based if the particular engineer can tune it to best match their piloting skills and/or if they have enough self-respect to at least throw a decorative hull around it, but will generally result in everything meant for combat turning in to roughly a copy-paste of whatever hydrogen-propelled shield-brick comes up when someone googles "SE2 Combat Meta".

-Multiple Emitters: That you can have multiple emitters covering different zones each with different hp values would suggest that you can also put multiple emitters in the same area, potentially rendering any sort of cap or diminishing returns pointless. It would also suggest one can mix emitter types to try and get the best of everything.

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Best to use real-life examples to design gameplay and balance questions around.

For example, we -do- have energy shields in real life. The earth's magnetic field. The ability for us to 'shape' and to ' condense' the emitted field is the 'magic' needed for gameplay shields.

So, a normal shield is a sphere shape dispersed over a wide area, for general space travel safety, powered by your generator. Combat shields condense the field into a thin shell, that can now be shaped how you want it, into various conic sectional or toroidal shapes, the wide thick field now becoming a narrow thin shell, shaping and spacing depending on power constraints. The amount of capacitor vs amount of generators decides on shield strength vs shield recharge, respectively. Three mid-powered cigar shaped ones along the three axis of movement, for example, along with one short range high powered sphere for in close weapons. Or whatever.

Weapon balance, as mentioned above, could use a heat/recoil system, that damages the block's components until it becomes inoperative, just like normal. It would apply more so to 'player designed weapons system', for balancing, as Keen would have to decide on the damage rates and proper usage of weapons when they release them, which will (edit:) inevitably lead to complaints and player gameplay hacks to mitigate Keen's balance design limitations.

Maybe have the weapons firing parameters adjustable, with included heat/recoil damage to components. Would fix a lot of issues. (edit:) or weapon modules, which Keen has shown off a couple in their concept art, could go towards individualizing a person's weapon, and their own benefits/drawbacks.

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Final point on shields, just to complete it, on the need for a system grounding, was most shield ideas are the equivalent of an RPG's 'magic' shield, in that they are pure conceptual. The rules for their use, laws for their world, are arbitrary and un-intelligable. Then the need, when able to, to base it off something beyond that.

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The Earth's magnetic field acts only against the electrically charged particles of the solar wind and cosmic rays. Furthermore, it benefits from the fact that the Earth's magnetic field is "thick"—on the day side, it extends to a distance of 10–12 Earth radii (60,000–70,000 km), on the night side it extends more than 50 Earth radii (>300,000 km), and its "tail" extends far beyond the Moon’s orbit; some sources cite >150–200 Earth radii (900,000–1,500,000 km).


Nevertheless, it is capable of stopping or slowing down only electrically charged elementary particles, but it does not stop any "macroscopic objects" such as dust particles. It does not even stop heavy atomic nuclei, but only slightly deflects their paths in the direction of the magnetic field lines.

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Yeah. Not good at kinetic force...which means we need another system for bullets...but it -is- great against plasma rounds!

For the sake of the argument below, I will refer to the 'radius' of the field as a dispersion, wide or narrow.

1. Electro-Magnetic Shields

There are already systems in-game that can: 1. Manipulate, and 2. Condense, energy fields. The Station's field...and the Gravity Generator. Shape, size, positioning, all based on block capability and power. Apply that logic to Energy Shields, and for plasma weapons. A plasma weapon is a round that produces the torch gas from your hand-welder, shoves it inside an energy field to contain it, and launches it out of a barrel. There would have to be an anchor piece at the bottom, with an energy 'cigar' field coming off to the top, to hold...and -compress-...the plasma inside...which is basically being an: H2 tank/shield emitter/capacitor, all put together and launched. The capacitor lasts about 2 seconds. Can be launched out off a rifled barrel with chemical propulsion. The magnetic energy shield of the 'ship' protects against the magnetic energy shield of the 'projectile' , which is housing the plasma. They are each strong magnetic fields, repulsing each other when in contact.

2. Kinetic Shields, or Inertia Dampers, Gravity Planes

Same logic goes to Gravity Generators, a new block would emit planes that the fields of 'up or down' can be condensed to protect from rail-gun slugs, or missiles. Any object with kinetic energy. Can be positioned as a pyramid, cube, soccer ball by using multiple planes. Though for game play reasons, can't have straight 'gravity' planes setup around your ship, as is the default of the Gravity Generator. When a plasma round detonates against it, the plane also tries to protect from the kinetic force of the explosion...overloading the block's max output and/or rapidly draining it's capacitors.

3. Armor

Protects really well against direct energy weapons ...lasers... besides the standard anti-kinetic and energy protection. Armor is a giant heat dump, can adsorb and radiate the massive heat from laser weapons.

A Field's magnetic polarity and a plane's gravity orientations can by oscillated back an forth, like your standard AC power does.

In the end, means:

1. Electro-Magnetic Shields - In normal use it is widely dispersed, runs in background, low power needs. Protects from general high-energy particles, solar flares, radiation. In combat, condensed to an thin shell, high energy needs. It is strong against plasma rounds, weak to bullets/missiles, weak to lasers weapons.

2. Kinetic Shield/Inertia Dampers Gravity Planes - In normal use, it is widely dispersed, runs in background, low power needs. Protects from micro-meteorites and orbital space debris. In combat, condensed into a thin plane, high energy needs, protects from bullets and missiles. Weak to plasma and laser weapons.

3. Armor - In normal use, protects from kinetic impacts and energy particles, and the giant blocks of metal also acts as a heat sink/dump for ship's onboard heat generation sources. No energy draw. In combat, medium protection from bullets/missiles, low to plasma, high to laser.

And, a player has customization options over dispersion size, field shapes, plane shapes, and locations, as power and block constraints will allow.

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IFF stuff, as well. A quick side-note:

You have to cycle a shield's positive/negative or up/down, as it is only 50/50 it blocks an enemy field.. Give that 'code', the encryption that controls it's cycling intervals, to friends, and they can pass through your shields (they just do reverse, swapping opposite automatically). Or acquire the code for the shields from a npc station, base, a player base in multiplayer, other player groups, etc. Not sure on atmosphere.

Hail a base, acquire the current code, and land or takeoff through the shields, if they are up. Works well.

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Woops, got waaaay too far into the weeds on this one, haha. More for a sci-fi The Expanse novel.

1. Energy Shields for Energy Weapons

2. Inertia 'Dissipating' Gravity-Based Shields for all kinetic weapons

3. Armor Blocks for Laser Weapons.

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I’d really like to see shields implemented in a way that isn’t just a flat “block all damage” mechanic.

Instead, shields could:

  • Be effective mainly against energy weapons
  • Deflect shells, not completely stop them
  • Let missiles pass through

This would immediately give smaller ships a real role. Fighters could:

  • Use gatlings to pressure shield emitters from close distance
  • Drop bombs or missiles that bypass shields more effectively



Shield emitters themselves should be physical, exposed blocks — similar to thrusters.

Placement would matter a lot:

  • If you place emitters too close to the hull, deflected shells can still hit your ship
  • The further away the shield bubble surface is, the higher the chance deflected shots miss entirely

So shields become less of a “DPS sponge” and more of an engineering and design challenge.




A key ideas:
  • Shields stay active as long as you have enough power
  • They do not block shells, only deflect them. There is not such a thing as shield HP.
  • Emitters can be destroyed in close combat or by missiles

So you’ll need proper point defense to protect them.




There’s also a cool tactical layer here:

If you shoot directly at an emitter, shells will likely get deflected away.

But if you shoot slightly to the side, there’s a chance deflected shells will actually hit the emitter.

So skilled players might intentionally aim off-target to destroy shield systems. That’s the kind of depth that makes combat interesting.




To prevent spam:
  • Emitters should use a lot of power
  • Possibly generate heat or other limitations
  • Adding more emitters does NOT make shields stronger

Instead:

  • All emitters combine into a single bubble with the same properties
  • Extra emitters only provide redundancy, not extra strength

And since they’d be:

  • expensive
  • heavy
  • power-hungry
  • competing for external space with weapon systems and thrusters

…you won’t be able to spam them all around your hull.




So yeah — this would be a non-fantasy shield system.

It helps you survive, but:

  • you can will still take damage
  • bad positioning gets punished
  • smart targeting is rewarded

Combat becomes more tactical, and ship design becomes way more interesting.

Small ships get meaningful roles again, and you will have more creative freedom for your designs. Having a strategically placed shield emitter on your fighter or even bigger ship could afford things like exposed cockpits and bridges, instead of just burying everything under armor.


Overall:

more creativity, more engineering decisions, more combat depth. 🚀

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Yeah, I agree — shields deflecting shots instead of just “eating” them is a much better design. It basically works like armor with strong deflection properties.

Some players enjoy designing clever hull shapes to deflect projectiles, and that’s still a great mechanic. But this kind of shield system opens up a lot more possibilities for non-traditional ship designs. People who like experimenting with unusual hull shapes wouldn’t be forced into cone-style meta builds just to stay effective in combat.

You could also balance it so that high-speed projectiles deflect less, making them more likely to hit the hull. On the other hand, slower, heavier projectiles could deal more damage. Realism aside, what matters most is good combat balance — each weapon type should have clear strengths and weaknesses, not just one being strictly better.

This setup creates some really interesting gameplay possibilities. In fleet battles, ships could have specialized roles:


  • Smaller ships (fighters, corvettes) could focus on taking down shield emitters
  • Larger ships with heavier weapons could capitalize once shields are down and deal serious hull damage

That kind of interaction would make fleet combat much more tactical and interesting.

One more thing — welders behind shield emitters, similar to how they were used behind weapons before, feels like a bad direction. They should be nerfed somehow.

The simplest solution would be a temperature system: welders generate a lot of heat (even more than weapons), making them inefficient in combat. That way, using them would significantly reduce your fire rate and overall DPS, naturally discouraging this kind of setup without hard restrictions.

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The SE "game universe" is literally pocket-sized—planets with diameters of up to 200 km, ship speeds of up to 300 m/s, and projectile speeds of up to 500 m/s or even 1,000 m/s. It would be nice if all game mechanics were adapted to this “pocket-sized universe.”

For example, projectiles from handguns should have a velocity of only 100–150 m/s, projectiles from the most powerful cannons 200–300 m/s, the fastest “hypersonic missiles” up to 600 m/s, and projectiles from railguns up to 1,000 m/s.

For the purposes of the game, it is sufficient to reduce all real-world weapon velocities by approximately a factor of 10.

Then, for example, a hit by a 5 kg projectile traveling at 150 m/s should count as a hit by an APFSDS anti-tank projectile traveling at 1,500 m/s.

Given such a general reduction in velocities, it would make more sense to examine the behavior of armor and blocks when struck by projectiles traveling at different speeds, as well as other effects of a projectile striking an obstacle.

The effective range of a weapon could be defined in the same way as the "lifespan" or lifetime of a projectile.

The formula could be simple: let the projectile’s lifetime be “the square root of the projectile’s mass in kg + five seconds”; small projectiles from handguns exist for 5 seconds and have a range of 500–750 meters; a 20-kilogram projectile traveling at 150 m/s has a range of 1,450 meters. A 5-kg projectile from a railgun has a velocity of, say, 500 m/s—its flight time is just over 11 seconds, and its range will be 5,590 m.

Of course, the formula could be modified to be more balanced than this tentative proposal.


At the same time, we would hear the cries of various immature Richthofens. These boys don’t realize one simple thing—their main killer isn’t “gun spam,” but the high velocity of the projectiles compared to the speed of their small vehicle.

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I like this notion of a “pocket-sized universe.” It’s actually beneficial for gameplay. Weapons and combat in general should be balanced around these parameters — distances, max speeds, and so on. The exact numbers don’t matter as long as everything feels consistent and well-balanced as a system.

For example, I’ve seen people point out that a 400 m range for a Gatling gun is ridiculously low. But IF (I know that is a big if) it effectively does its job as point defense, protecting you from missiles, then it’s fine. Autocannons can have a larger effective range, covering threats like small fighters and bombers.

Each weapon type should have a clear purpose, and there should be natural limits coming from the underlying systems that prevent you from spamming too many weapons on a single hull. You shouldn’t be able to put everything on one ship.

These constraints should force meaningful choices — what you prioritize depends on the role of your ship. A “do-everything” ship would end up mediocre at everything, while a specialized ship would excel in its role but remain vulnerable in other areas. That’s where fleet gameplay really starts to shine.

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Only planet sizes and distances are pocket sized. Everything else is not. Actually it is opposite - things are much more heavy than they should.


It would be funny that player with jetpack at 300 m/s could outrun the bullets and deal damage by just ramming ship with its 3.2 tons of inventory at this speed.

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irreality - Unfortunately, it is possible...

But that’s a problem with poorly designed game mechanics and rules.

Outrun bullets... Why not? However, it takes the character/player some time to reach that speed. At an acceleration of 10 m/s², it takes a full 30 seconds.


The jetpack is maybe too powerful. I completely understand that the jetpack needs decent acceleration; otherwise, moving the character around in open spaces would be really difficult. But the standard acceleration limit won’t help against the kamikaze-style action described.

However, there could be another penalty—for death upon collision with an obstacle/grid. And it could take the form of a respawn time that depends on the type of obstacle/grid and who owns the obstacle/grid.

Let the safe speed be 20 m/s.

If a character dies upon impact at a speed of up to 50 m/s, the respawn is “immediate” upon impact with an obstacle or grid owned by the player (considered a work-related injury), 2.5 minutes (150 sec.) upon impact with an unowned or “neutral” obstacle/grid (considered death due to inattention), and 5 minutes (300 sec.) upon impact with an obstacle/grid owned by another player (considered an attempted attack and intentional suicide). For every additional 50 m/s (or fraction thereof), the penalty would increase by 150 seconds. A kamikaze who crashes into an enemy ship at a maximum speed of 300 m/s would therefore be out of the game for a total of (300 + 150 + 150 + 150 + 150 + 150 = 1050 seconds), or 17.5 minutes.

Furthermore, the “character’s body,” even when wearing a spacesuit and carrying a heavy load, must be considered a soft projectile with “zero” penetration (it has a large cross-sectional area and thus a low stress per unit area).

For comparison, a cannon projectile with a caliber of around 150 mm weighs about 45–50 kg. The stress per unit area is 2550–2830 kg/m².

A human body in a spacesuit has a surface area of about 2 m², and with a total weight including cargo of 3.5 tons, the stress per unit area reaches about 1750 kg/m² (to be honest, I expected it to be much lower...)

The difference is that a cannon projectile strikes a single 0.25-meter or 0.5-meter grid block, while a figure strikes at least around 20–30 0.25-meter grid blocks or at least four 0.5-meter grid blocks.


On the other hand, the same mechanism of barrier damage should always apply, even in collisions with one’s own grids.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

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irreality.net ● wrote:

Everything else is not. Actually it is opposite - things are much more heavy than they should.

-----------------------------------------------------------

That’s why I liked in the SE1 plugins that let me create “wall panels” with control blocks in a small grid within the ship’s larger grid structure. It wasn’t perfect, but it was good enough to give the ship’s control systems a sensible scale.

Within the space of two large grid blocks, I had 32–40–50 small grid blocks, which handled the vast majority of my ship’s control functions in a single location. It was also visually incomparably better than the absurdly large large-grid control blocks.

And I would like to see the same solution in SE2, even if it means that the cost and consumption of building materials for small control blocks would be the same as for large control blocks.

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I think another fun way to do shields is to try to incorporate a system not unlike what the Covenant has to do in Halo, where the shield is forced to iris when friendly stuff passes through it or when guns want to fire out, leaving the ship with a tiny vulnerability that can be exploited by skilled players.


Essentially forcing you to give up a bit of defense to be able to use something for offensive.


Some of the points about armor aren't great, armor thickness, density, material, and slope are stuff that have to come into effect

but also shell type, speed, density, and material also come into play, realistically, without modeling armor as large pieces, a system like this cannot become too complicated without stripping away stuff that defines Space Engineers, and I think the system SE1 had as is was already pretty decent when it came to how shell penetration was done, sloped armor, despite what you may think, actually was pretty effective due to how armor works, and if it isn't changed, should still be fairly effective, just not having a chance to bounce shells.

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it wouldn't strip anything away it but would be built on tip of the core functionality- you don't need to overcomplicate the system just have blocks stack armor/health to the face being hit and have a angle vs pen value and you have so much more depth without taking anything away this changes the combat ship meta from stack armor 5 deep to have angled layered armor with a spall liner or a second angled plate- intelligent design rather than brick

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One of the problems with realistic assessment of hits and damage lies in the simulation of ship structures itself. The "armor" blocks have very low density. They are very light relative to their volume.

This makes it impossible to use any realistic collision models or penetration and ricochet models to assess the collision between a projectile and an obstacle (armor) in the game.

Given the density of the projectile material and the density of the armor material, a projectile could never be ricocheted.

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