The Hypothesis Of Underwater Combat (Submarines)

Иван Цуканов (Kogti_Drakona) shared this feedback 44 days ago
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There are none in the game at the moment, but we can anticipate possible scenarios

for the development of weapons in the game, provided that the game has drones like in the first part.


We know about missiles and torpedoes. But you know that they can be combined, right?

The Navy often possesses missiles that deliver small torpedoes

over considerable distances and, naturally, quickly.

This method is effective when fighting between submarines at long distances.


The main dangers for submarines have always been aircraft.


Small aircraft with outboard torpedoes will always be the standard and cheap anti-submarine means. The only thing to do is

to hit a submarine, it is necessary to detect it beforehand.

Disposable buoys with repeaters can also be used for this purpose. This will work

provided that underwater detection tools are added to the game.

Which have efficiency depending, for example, on the sensor size.


Example: A small aircraft with four torpedoes, eight buoys, and a sensor on the piston

for lowering under water. Such a device will be effective for the defense of surface

ships with constant movement.


It is natural to assume that the main danger to submarines are

torpedoes and powerful depth charges directly dropped over the water

by an aircraft.

Speed and depth can be used to protect against depth charges, but

with torpedoes there are two simple options.


The first option is a decoy, which will attract automatic,

Homing weapons. Naturally, torpedoes can be manually operated,

this option is possible.


There is a second option for this case. Miniature torpedoes for self-defense

with the necessary amount of explosives to stop an enemy torpedo.

(Such systems also exist in real life, since modern torpedoes

have various means of guidance, including wake tracking.)

The main task of protective torpedoes is not range and operating time, not speed,

but cheapness, compactness and quantity.


The second option is especially viable if there are no turrets underwater that

could operate in an underwater environment.


There are other weapons options that can be installed by submarines

and destroyers. Mobile mines. Unlike torpedoes that have speed,

mobile mines have battery life and long-range target detection.

Their devices can be simple, in fact ordinary torpedoes, as well as special ones.

The design of the special ones can be different, including the presence of an anchor made of

batteries to maintain the operating time.

Such mines are especially effective in shallow waters. Can be compatible with generators,

such as an underwater generator, wind turbine, solar panels.


A more complex option may be a platform for storing torpedoes, with the ability

to launch them. At the same time, have generators, a living compartment and a landing pad.

But not to be a base, but rather as a fort.

At the same time, it can have many thin shields underwater to prematurely

detonate enemy torpedoes.


Everything written suggests the presence of detection tools in the game.

If they don't exist, then it's more likely the same as in space, with the only difference

being that the speeds may be lower, and the range of visibility is like that of a mole.


I am an inexperienced player myself,

I would like to know the opinion of avid players and not only.

Replies (3)

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It is important to know what speed torpedoes and submarines can reach. It may turn out that it will be possible to simply escape from the torpedoes at maximum speed.

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Hello, and thank you for the ideas in your post. After a careful reading, I was wondering how your ideas would work with SE2 engines? What I mean, is that the torpedos could have 'infinite' range, at top speed, underwater if you added a O2 H2 generator if you built your own torpedoes?


The hydrogen engine will use fuel made by the generator underwater, maybe?

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I suspect their idea is similar to outrunning player-made missiles in SE1 by reaching the speed cap (the missiles cant go faster than the cap, and so can never catch you unless you slow down or change direction if they're behind you when you cap out).


As for infinite power from water... it works in SE1 with water mods, we'll have to see if Keen wants it to work that way in SE2.

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You can create a special submarine that not only could have the maximum speed in the game (I do not know how the hydrodynamics of braking will work), but the fastest acceleration, only acceleration. You can create a banal submarine consisting mainly of propellers and batteries and see how it will do a 45-degree anti-torpedo maneuver. I am interested in another question related to this. How can a torpedo launch be detected and this speed advantage exploited? If the game has the same poor sensors as in the first part, then you will have to put long masts with lures around the submarine and hope that you will be lucky.

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Regarding the hydrogen generator, I asked myself if it was possible to add such an advantage to submarines in a "perpetual motion machine". And I even wrote in my ideas where this is compensated by their noise, which makes the submarine noticeable.

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/49295-submarine-proposals-se2

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Guided anti-vehicle missiles tend to be rather hard to dodge IRL because they have the advantage of not needing to carry things like life-support for a pilot, fuel to get back to base after a fight, cargo, ammo-magazines (if it isn't an SE1 nuke), or non-kamikaze-equipment. In SE1 evading player-made missiles in vanilla typically required either very small and very agile ships (which could get away with it mostly because of how the game handles the missile's guidance), or missiles with very poor agility. I suspect SE2 will improve the missile guidance a bit, so reliably evading missiles/torpedoes in the way you are suggesting will probably be quite challenging.


Of course this is SE we're talking about, so I seriously doubt there'll be anything stopping you from flying your sub up out of the water, watching torpedoes try to jump at you like startled fish, and then getting rid of them by dropping a depth-charge or two.

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Interesting stuff.

I think Newtonian physics for movement will already work, since water is non-compressable, with some buoyancy added.


As for sound, cavatation, sonar...


I think Keen will keep their spherical, instantaneous, accurate, but limited range of sensor type. That changes a lot of tactics used for combat, in the air or sea. I have to give up my sim F-16 tactics for it haha. The flight radar on fighters is directional, mid range, semi accurate, semi instantaneous. Or sonar, which is long range, slow, inaccurate.


Edit - Yeah, unlimited range submarines, too, as you said. But, it will be interesting to see what new tactics players develop :)

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