Backpack crafting with more substantial cost
I think backpack crafting was a really good idea. It allows the player to start from scratch with nothing but his suit and tools. This is good. I like it. Keep the backpack crafting.
However, currently it is too good. The time increase when building from raw ores instead of components, is hardly noticeable. This makes it now so, that as a player you *prefer* building from raw ores, because the same ore can be used for many components, and the cost is insignificant.
We want to be able to start from scratch. That is very good indeed. It just needs balancing. Here's a suggestion:
- Increase the building time when using raw ores. Make it take double the time to build, compared to building from ready-made components.
- Add a resource cost to it. Have it take double the amount of raw ores to build a block, compared to first turning the raw ore into components.
Or, better yet, make the above "raw ore penalties" a custom difficulty setting, so that each player can adjust them to their preference. This would be the ideal solution.
With this change we still can start from scratch with nothing but our tools, but now there's a visible cost to it when building directly from raw ores. When turning the same amount of iron first into steel plates allows you to build 100 armor cubes, instead of 50 cubes with raw iron, building a smelter and using it, suddenly seems a really good idea.
This way we have an incentive to switch over to crafting components with devices as soon as we can, and the backpack crafting will remain the tool for the very early game, and for special circumstances. We would naturally prefer crafting ore first into components with devices because there's a clear advantage in doing so.
Yet we can still build up from nothing. Which I really genuinely like. Don't remove that possibility. Just balance the backpack crafting.
I like this feedback
To clarify with a simple example:
Currently in the game we have:
- The smelter needs 35 kg of iron ore to craft 1 steel plate
- You need 30 steel plates to build a 2.5 m armor full cube
- Or you can build that 2.5 m cube directly with 1050 kg of iron ore
30 x 35 kg = 1050 kg
The resource cost is the same whether you build the cube directly with iron ore or you craft the ore first into steel plates. This is the problem. There's no resource advantage in turning the ore into plates first, and the additional time delay in building is too small to matter.
If we change it so, that using directly raw ores when building blocks consume 2x the resources, while keeping otherwise the numbers the same we get:
- Smelter needs 35 kg of iron ore to craft 1 steel plate (same as before)
- You need 30 steel plates to build 1 armor cube (same as before)
- Or you can build it directly with 2 x 30 x 35 = 2100 kg of iron ore (double cost for raw ore building)
Now the player gets a clear choice:
- He can use his 2100 kg of iron ore directly to build one (1) armor cube
- Or he can use those same 2100 kg of iron ore to craft 60 steel plates, and then build two (2) armor cubes
Given this choice, you now have a very good incentive to craft components first and build blocks using them.
To clarify with a simple example:
Currently in the game we have:
- The smelter needs 35 kg of iron ore to craft 1 steel plate
- You need 30 steel plates to build a 2.5 m armor full cube
- Or you can build that 2.5 m cube directly with 1050 kg of iron ore
30 x 35 kg = 1050 kg
The resource cost is the same whether you build the cube directly with iron ore or you craft the ore first into steel plates. This is the problem. There's no resource advantage in turning the ore into plates first, and the additional time delay in building is too small to matter.
If we change it so, that using directly raw ores when building blocks consume 2x the resources, while keeping otherwise the numbers the same we get:
- Smelter needs 35 kg of iron ore to craft 1 steel plate (same as before)
- You need 30 steel plates to build 1 armor cube (same as before)
- Or you can build it directly with 2 x 30 x 35 = 2100 kg of iron ore (double cost for raw ore building)
Now the player gets a clear choice:
- He can use his 2100 kg of iron ore directly to build one (1) armor cube
- Or he can use those same 2100 kg of iron ore to craft 60 steel plates, and then build two (2) armor cubes
Given this choice, you now have a very good incentive to craft components first and build blocks using them.
Seconded, like many similar comments. And one might add additional suit energy consumption for refining.
To make a real difference, the smelter needs to be better in every way. It is already quite fast, but if the backpack gets nerfed, the smelter should still have a much higher yield for the same amount of ore.
Seconded, like many similar comments. And one might add additional suit energy consumption for refining.
To make a real difference, the smelter needs to be better in every way. It is already quite fast, but if the backpack gets nerfed, the smelter should still have a much higher yield for the same amount of ore.
Backpack building is indeed a good addition to the game. It is very convenient for building simple things like small blocks, interiors, basic functional blocks, decorations etc. I'd like to use it throughout the whole game, not only in the beginning. When you use ready components, it is NOT backpack building, but just welding. Your backpack is not building anything from ready components, only from raw ore, as for now.
The best way to improve and balance backpack building is to use the smelter to do an energy-demanding process of purifying/refining raw ore into a purified and condensed form, also known as "ingots". Now you can have a clear advantage of reduced weight and volume and your backpack can build components faster, consuming less energy, instead of when it does it from raw ore.
I would say that with this kind of backpack building, where you mostly use iron ingots, you don't really need the build planner either, which was never an easy tool to learn, but now it will be even harder, considering additional nuances with ore vs components for backpack building.
Say you want to build an armor block, and you happen to have a mix of steel plates, iron ingots and iron ore in your inventory. You will first use all available steel plates to put into the block and weld, then your backpack will use ingots to create more steel plates on the fly. If that is not enough, it will use the ore necessary to produce more ingots needed for additional steel plates. The whole process is automated for you. Welding UI can show you the information about what is being used/crafted at any given moment. When it comes to producing steel plates from ingots, it will display the crafting process and the amount of ingots used for each steel plate. When using raw iron ore, you will see the crafting process starting from refining the right amount of ore needed for the right amount of ingots to make each steel plate. Using raw ore will take you longer to build that armor block. New players will have time to learn basic production mechanics while building their first blocks. A contextual help can explain the benefits of building your first smelter. You will basically want to rush the smelter asap now.
There is this new concept of "block wrappers" announced in VS2.2. Afaik, it will be a bundle of components needed to build a single block (or maybe more blocks). How cool would it be to select blocks you need to build (or a whole blueprint) and "order" the production of all the necessary components from the top down. Ideally, I'd love to have a bunch of "block wrappers" placed into production, maybe in some special type of production block. Those "bundles" are filled with already available components and the missing ones will be enqueued into corresponding production blocks. By selecting a bundle, you can see a similar UI you have in the backpack building with the progress of crafting all the dependencies, starting from smelting ores to ingots, and going through all the component tiers. That would be awesome. Why should I calculate anything if it can all be resolved automatically for me and display what is ready, what is in production? Of course, you would like to prepare stockpiles of ingots for the faster craft on demand.
Backpack building is indeed a good addition to the game. It is very convenient for building simple things like small blocks, interiors, basic functional blocks, decorations etc. I'd like to use it throughout the whole game, not only in the beginning. When you use ready components, it is NOT backpack building, but just welding. Your backpack is not building anything from ready components, only from raw ore, as for now.
The best way to improve and balance backpack building is to use the smelter to do an energy-demanding process of purifying/refining raw ore into a purified and condensed form, also known as "ingots". Now you can have a clear advantage of reduced weight and volume and your backpack can build components faster, consuming less energy, instead of when it does it from raw ore.
I would say that with this kind of backpack building, where you mostly use iron ingots, you don't really need the build planner either, which was never an easy tool to learn, but now it will be even harder, considering additional nuances with ore vs components for backpack building.
Say you want to build an armor block, and you happen to have a mix of steel plates, iron ingots and iron ore in your inventory. You will first use all available steel plates to put into the block and weld, then your backpack will use ingots to create more steel plates on the fly. If that is not enough, it will use the ore necessary to produce more ingots needed for additional steel plates. The whole process is automated for you. Welding UI can show you the information about what is being used/crafted at any given moment. When it comes to producing steel plates from ingots, it will display the crafting process and the amount of ingots used for each steel plate. When using raw iron ore, you will see the crafting process starting from refining the right amount of ore needed for the right amount of ingots to make each steel plate. Using raw ore will take you longer to build that armor block. New players will have time to learn basic production mechanics while building their first blocks. A contextual help can explain the benefits of building your first smelter. You will basically want to rush the smelter asap now.
There is this new concept of "block wrappers" announced in VS2.2. Afaik, it will be a bundle of components needed to build a single block (or maybe more blocks). How cool would it be to select blocks you need to build (or a whole blueprint) and "order" the production of all the necessary components from the top down. Ideally, I'd love to have a bunch of "block wrappers" placed into production, maybe in some special type of production block. Those "bundles" are filled with already available components and the missing ones will be enqueued into corresponding production blocks. By selecting a bundle, you can see a similar UI you have in the backpack building with the progress of crafting all the dependencies, starting from smelting ores to ingots, and going through all the component tiers. That would be awesome. Why should I calculate anything if it can all be resolved automatically for me and display what is ready, what is in production? Of course, you would like to prepare stockpiles of ingots for the faster craft on demand.
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