Survival start is way too easy
Hey guys,
I've started new Survival save and uh, the game gives you way too much free stuff. Sure, receiving the Grasshopper is a nice upgrade on the rover from SE. But receiving, uh, several grasshoppers, a mining facility, a hydrogen ship, an asteroid base, every ore conveniently available, is just too much. There's no Survival in Survival. It's "loot free stuff" mode.
I think the player should simply start with the Grasshopper and a goal to reach space. This would already have more structure than SE. There could be a tutorial segment, as I feel like overall SE was a bit poor on this department, but this should involve.. not so much free stuff. Like, direct the player to finding iron ore, then building a refinery or whatever.
As an addendum, it's really mean to give the player free stuff and then the starting ship is too small to take it. I disassembled my escape pod, most of the hangar, etc before realising it was pointless. Obviously if you start the player next to a giant pile of materials they're going to want to take it with them. Grinding down the escape pod is especially tedious because there's so many small half-blocks that take ages.
I like this feedback
I like the story, and you are right the start is too easy... in fact it is too easy even for the purposes of learning. At a minimum the player should be guided through setting up a one of each of the three thrusters from scratch - this was the most confusing thing about SE1 when I first played it. I didn't realise that ion thrusters and atmospheric thrusters did not need connectors for a long time - but I also couldn't see where to connect them so I just put connectors all over them. They obviously worked... but I didn't realise they would have worked without the connectors.
Issue with hydrogen thrusters was I did not realise that the yellow part was where they needed to be connected.
I think the tutorial needs to be separate and simply a tutorial - don't even try and build a story around the tutorial.
I actually really like the story so far - which is partly why I would like it separated from the tutorial. I want to play the storyline and be challenged.
If they worked on improving the tutorial, they could bring back ingots. For the tutorial only, they could make many of the necessary ingots readily available so that new players are not overwhelmed.
I guess ultimately I only half agree with you... the start needs to be easy so players can learn (something I don't agree the tutorial did a good job of teaching as it failed to clearly explain how gyros and thrusters work and how to set them up) but an easy start could be avoided by simply separating the tutorial out.
I like the story, and you are right the start is too easy... in fact it is too easy even for the purposes of learning. At a minimum the player should be guided through setting up a one of each of the three thrusters from scratch - this was the most confusing thing about SE1 when I first played it. I didn't realise that ion thrusters and atmospheric thrusters did not need connectors for a long time - but I also couldn't see where to connect them so I just put connectors all over them. They obviously worked... but I didn't realise they would have worked without the connectors.
Issue with hydrogen thrusters was I did not realise that the yellow part was where they needed to be connected.
I think the tutorial needs to be separate and simply a tutorial - don't even try and build a story around the tutorial.
I actually really like the story so far - which is partly why I would like it separated from the tutorial. I want to play the storyline and be challenged.
If they worked on improving the tutorial, they could bring back ingots. For the tutorial only, they could make many of the necessary ingots readily available so that new players are not overwhelmed.
I guess ultimately I only half agree with you... the start needs to be easy so players can learn (something I don't agree the tutorial did a good job of teaching as it failed to clearly explain how gyros and thrusters work and how to set them up) but an easy start could be avoided by simply separating the tutorial out.
I would actually agree with this a bit. There was some grind. but the first hydrogen ship the sledge you find made it almost instant to get into space...
I would actually agree with this a bit. There was some grind. but the first hydrogen ship the sledge you find made it almost instant to get into space...
I think its good for the tutorial to get to interact with prebuilt structures of all kinds.
The only solution I can think of, is have a tutorial planet from where you jump / fast travel to almagest, leaving all the material behind. So you arrive in almagest with the bare minimum, or even nothing at all.
I think its good for the tutorial to get to interact with prebuilt structures of all kinds.
The only solution I can think of, is have a tutorial planet from where you jump / fast travel to almagest, leaving all the material behind. So you arrive in almagest with the bare minimum, or even nothing at all.
Yes, I totally agree with you. Even in my post, I also talk about the teleportation system between stations, which makes traveling too easy and breaks the immersion.
In Survival mode, it’s way too simplistic.
I’ve already reached about 20% of colonization without a base, using only a hydrogen ship.
It’s not normal for it to be this easy.
Yes, I totally agree with you. Even in my post, I also talk about the teleportation system between stations, which makes traveling too easy and breaks the immersion.
In Survival mode, it’s way too simplistic.
I’ve already reached about 20% of colonization without a base, using only a hydrogen ship.
It’s not normal for it to be this easy.
It has callbacks to the old Earth Easy Start that's in SE1 where it started you out with a full facility you can use, a fighter, miner, builder and such. I'm sure there will be other starts in due time just like they added to SE1 starts over time.
It has callbacks to the old Earth Easy Start that's in SE1 where it started you out with a full facility you can use, a fighter, miner, builder and such. I'm sure there will be other starts in due time just like they added to SE1 starts over time.
I think it is good pace for new players, but for Veteran SE players, it is easy. A suggestion would be a Story Survival that only provides station type grids as a setting, challenging the player to make their ships.
I think it is good pace for new players, but for Veteran SE players, it is easy. A suggestion would be a Story Survival that only provides station type grids as a setting, challenging the player to make their ships.
I am the brand new player. Never played se1. Granted I'm still around verdure building out my carrier. About 60 hours of grinding out mining... But I will agree getting to space the first time lacked the pride it did with say KSP where it took me a few months to finally get a ship to stay in orbit
I am the brand new player. Never played se1. Granted I'm still around verdure building out my carrier. About 60 hours of grinding out mining... But I will agree getting to space the first time lacked the pride it did with say KSP where it took me a few months to finally get a ship to stay in orbit
The problem is the tutorial doesn't really teach you how to do those things, like how to design a ship, etc. It just gives you one. So the player doesn't learn anywhere near as much as they really need to.
The problem is the tutorial doesn't really teach you how to do those things, like how to design a ship, etc. It just gives you one. So the player doesn't learn anywhere near as much as they really need to.
I was thinking about this last night... And maybe I wasn't quite fair saying it was too easy. Yes, I still haven't designed anything. I've been finding blueprints that I can somewhat make in survival. Grinding away at those mining and building. A lot of the blueprints are extremely difficult to weld up so I have to tear them apart and build them back from the inside out.
But the part I'm not really fair with. I kind of saw getting to space the first time is a big deal. And perhaps the game will be much bigger than that. After all I have about 90 hours into the game and still haven't got away from the first planet... So that's a thing
I was thinking about this last night... And maybe I wasn't quite fair saying it was too easy. Yes, I still haven't designed anything. I've been finding blueprints that I can somewhat make in survival. Grinding away at those mining and building. A lot of the blueprints are extremely difficult to weld up so I have to tear them apart and build them back from the inside out.
But the part I'm not really fair with. I kind of saw getting to space the first time is a big deal. And perhaps the game will be much bigger than that. After all I have about 90 hours into the game and still haven't got away from the first planet... So that's a thing
A journey through engineering (ignoring the bookwork and constant side quests)
Observe operate refill unjam service replace repair rebuild improve redesign repurpose invent design prototype analyse refine repackage produce commission deliver support upgrade.
A journey through engineering (ignoring the bookwork and constant side quests)
Observe operate refill unjam service replace repair rebuild improve redesign repurpose invent design prototype analyse refine repackage produce commission deliver support upgrade.
If it becomes to much of a chore players will move on. Remember this is a game, everyone is coming from different levels of play, some want the building, others the exploration, some a mission focus the do the other aspects.
Players have a choice to go to space or stay planet bound. Making getting to space endgame material can make the space part of Space Engineers too difficult. Veteran players can build a new ship while new players may choose to fix up the npc ships and use them.
Ultimately its the players choice.
If it becomes to much of a chore players will move on. Remember this is a game, everyone is coming from different levels of play, some want the building, others the exploration, some a mission focus the do the other aspects.
Players have a choice to go to space or stay planet bound. Making getting to space endgame material can make the space part of Space Engineers too difficult. Veteran players can build a new ship while new players may choose to fix up the npc ships and use them.
Ultimately its the players choice.
On the other side making it trivial arcade game will discourage players who expected some basic physics, immersion and engineering.
On the other side making it trivial arcade game will discourage players who expected some basic physics, immersion and engineering.
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