Your gameplay loop is ruining the best thing about SE.
In SE2, the start is VERY scripted. I HATE THIS, and would not play the game. I can't just figure it out and mess around. I have to go through some stupid set of predetermined tasks.
People do NOT play SE1 because they like completing lists of meaning-less tasks. People play SE1 because there are no meaningless tasks. ALL of the tasks in SE1 are there because of the ENVIRONMENT that SE1 IS. What SE1 lacks, is that once you get production setup, the game world STOPS providing ANY motivation to DO anything.
You need to solve that problem, not provide a scripted list of pointless crap to do.
You need to create an environment with NPC's. Interacting with the world should provide opportunities. There should be reasons to look for resources after you can build things. There should be reasons to go to trade stations.
The world needs to be more DYNAMIC. Yes stories are fine, but stories you DISCOVER. Stories the PLAYER CREATES through interacting with the stories already in the world. NOT by being guided through some some story the dev team likes, or some story Marek likes.
I have over 5,500 hours in SE. Almost all of it survival, and none of those hours are the game just sitting at the start menu. Real in-game hours. Why?
It's an opportunity for me to create my OWN stories. My OWN reasons to do or build something, not some task list... and I say STUPID task list, Not because you're doing a bad job of creating tasks, but because I apparently NEED to go do them. In order. WTF. This is not SE.
Go look at "Serious Sam". Go look at "Serious Sam 2". Serious Sam was the most fun shooter game I have ever played. The second one wasn't worth bothering with. A total disgrace. Why? They had no idea what actually made the first one great.
Keen very much APPEARS to be going down a very similar road. Wanting to expand on something great, but in the push to do that... losing what was actually good about it in the first place.
Graphics are great. Planets are great. Water is exciting. I am SO excited.
Yet I have no desire at all to pick the game back up after playing long enough to get to Vallation station. Why? Read above.
If I want to leave that whiny ass bitch of a brother behind and never come back for him, that should be fine. Yeah Yeah I can tell he's the "villain". This is future story development... YOUR story. NO ONE cares about YOUR story. ALL ANYONE CARES ABOUT is a reason and framework to create their own stories in.
That is SE's strongsuit.
That's WHY people play SE DESPITE how hard it is.
That is your core audience.
Please don't betray us in your quest for popularity. I gift other people the DLC just as an opportunity to give you more money. I want you to succeed. I want you to build SE2. I want what you build to be worth my time. It NEEDS to have the essence of SE1 in it.
I do NOT see that at this time, and I am very concerned.
I wish Keen Software House the best.
I like this feedback
Stop freaking out, they just gave you a sandbox mode so you can sandbox away. Nobody ever said that there wouldnt be a sandbox mode for people who like sandboxing.
What you consider their 'strongsuit' most businesses would consider a gigantic weakness - space engineers 1 is a technical demonstration, not actually a game, and that's why the playerbase is 1/1000 of what it could be. It doesnt matter if their core players are hardcore super gamers who spend 3 full work years ingame - a business has to pay the bills and they can happily both bring in new players while making super geeks happy. You blew your load a little too quickly here champ.
There is nothing wrong with having a campaign system designed to ease regular people into the game.
There is nothing wrong with building an actual game with things to do that reward players for playing it.
Most people are not capable of playing a game like space engineers on their own with no systems to ease them into it.
Let me say that again. Most people are NOT capable of playing a sandbox space engineers game, let alone making up their own reasons to make a base, make a big space ship, etc.. WITHOUT A REASON TO DO SO. So even if there was a sandbox, unless there are in-game reasons to upgrade and build bigger bases, ships and stations, OTHER THAN more bases ships and stations, then regular people will quit right after realizing the game loop is over. When you finish making your first big warship, there had damned well better be a good reason you spent all that time making it, otherwise alt+f4 and never play again.
Stop freaking out, they just gave you a sandbox mode so you can sandbox away. Nobody ever said that there wouldnt be a sandbox mode for people who like sandboxing.
What you consider their 'strongsuit' most businesses would consider a gigantic weakness - space engineers 1 is a technical demonstration, not actually a game, and that's why the playerbase is 1/1000 of what it could be. It doesnt matter if their core players are hardcore super gamers who spend 3 full work years ingame - a business has to pay the bills and they can happily both bring in new players while making super geeks happy. You blew your load a little too quickly here champ.
There is nothing wrong with having a campaign system designed to ease regular people into the game.
There is nothing wrong with building an actual game with things to do that reward players for playing it.
Most people are not capable of playing a game like space engineers on their own with no systems to ease them into it.
Let me say that again. Most people are NOT capable of playing a sandbox space engineers game, let alone making up their own reasons to make a base, make a big space ship, etc.. WITHOUT A REASON TO DO SO. So even if there was a sandbox, unless there are in-game reasons to upgrade and build bigger bases, ships and stations, OTHER THAN more bases ships and stations, then regular people will quit right after realizing the game loop is over. When you finish making your first big warship, there had damned well better be a good reason you spent all that time making it, otherwise alt+f4 and never play again.
I paid for it, and I would pay for it again. I AM people too.
I paid for it, and I would pay for it again. I AM people too.
I think the solution for your concerns are:
I think the solution for your concerns are:
No matter what you do, there are always gonna be someone who wouldn't be happy about it. A lots of people were not happy about SE1 because it had no actual gameplay, had almost no tutorial, had no NPCs, game was pretty empty and lonely, if you had no friends to play with you online. Now Keen are trying to fix this for SE2. And I love it!
Old school survivol is still gonna be in the game, just not yet. But you still may play those survivol foundations now after finishing a few contracts or downloading someone else's saved game.
No matter what you do, there are always gonna be someone who wouldn't be happy about it. A lots of people were not happy about SE1 because it had no actual gameplay, had almost no tutorial, had no NPCs, game was pretty empty and lonely, if you had no friends to play with you online. Now Keen are trying to fix this for SE2. And I love it!
Old school survivol is still gonna be in the game, just not yet. But you still may play those survivol foundations now after finishing a few contracts or downloading someone else's saved game.
Bro, relax, you’re not the only one here. I have played SE1 and still can remember how confused I was years ago when I first started playing. I very much like the story mode. It is so funny reading your phrases like „NO ONE” and knowing I am one of these people.
Also, your entire problem can be solved by just choosing a different game mode. Peace!
Bro, relax, you’re not the only one here. I have played SE1 and still can remember how confused I was years ago when I first started playing. I very much like the story mode. It is so funny reading your phrases like „NO ONE” and knowing I am one of these people.
Also, your entire problem can be solved by just choosing a different game mode. Peace!
While I agree the sentiment that a sandbox mode should just dump us in to the world randomly, with no objectives, the post is a bit inconsiderate and unhinged.
While I agree the sentiment that a sandbox mode should just dump us in to the world randomly, with no objectives, the post is a bit inconsiderate and unhinged.
have you looked at the game after the latest hotfix? I think that solves a lot of the issues you have with the game,
have you looked at the game after the latest hotfix? I think that solves a lot of the issues you have with the game,
Sandbox, Survival, etc...all will be available. They released the tutorial mission to help new people to SE Universe how to use the tools in the game. Not everyone has 1000's of hours of SE1 like some of us.
Sandbox, Survival, etc...all will be available. They released the tutorial mission to help new people to SE Universe how to use the tools in the game. Not everyone has 1000's of hours of SE1 like some of us.
Here is the fix:
Give the NPC's the ability to accept contracts. Have different factions generate different contracts that are aligned with their own goals.
Basically...a 4x strategy game layer that dynamically generates missions for players and non-players...
...good luck with that. It would make the universe 'alive', vs totally random spawns/random contracts, or a linear list. But that would also be like developing an entirely other new game as well as developing SE2. And also change the flavor of the game, much easier to have fixed contracts. Quicker, too. Player mods with probably create campaigns and stuff. Should be interesting.
Here is the fix:
Give the NPC's the ability to accept contracts. Have different factions generate different contracts that are aligned with their own goals.
Basically...a 4x strategy game layer that dynamically generates missions for players and non-players...
...good luck with that. It would make the universe 'alive', vs totally random spawns/random contracts, or a linear list. But that would also be like developing an entirely other new game as well as developing SE2. And also change the flavor of the game, much easier to have fixed contracts. Quicker, too. Player mods with probably create campaigns and stuff. Should be interesting.
Hi Jesse,
I can see you are very passionate about this and feel the need to use generalizations, superlatives and capitalization.
To me, although I can relate to some of what you are saying, this comes across as very emotional and somewhat demanding.
What do you think when you read back your first post after a little while and about my feedback on this?
Here are some tips that might help you:
Tip #1 Breathe In, Breathe out. Repeat until your relax. Don't post when you are somewhat emotional. Giving your feedback is great. But the style you used in not always productive.
Tip #2 Written language is a poor medium to properly express emotions or intent. Hence you might want to tone down a bit on the superlatives, generalizations and capitalization. You'll see your message comes across with more effectiveness.
Tip #3 Have patience. Keen is listening and they are working to address the community feedback. There are few development teams I see this engaged with their user community (and I've been around for a while). So far, I hear them addressing your concerns. Listen to the webcast from yesterday. They touched upon letting people tell their own story. It is still part of the DNA of the system, including the options to modify it to suit the story you want to tell.
It is great you are so passionate. Many of us are. But you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. You'll see when you adjust the style of your message that the reactions, in particular the first ones, will be a lot more to your liking than what you got this time .
I'm pretty sure you didn't mean it bad. And life is ongoing learning and development. (And failing at times again, I know I do.)
I'm also sure the game will become something you enjoy in the end.
P.S.1 Giving feedback is usually best done in the form (usually f2f, but you can extrapolate from that in a forum):
1. I see, note, etc. - state facts
2. It makes me feel x, y and or z.
3. What do you think?
2b or 3b optional: provide some suggestions towards improvement
P.S.2 Apologies if this comes across as a bit patronizing. Please believe me when I only intend to help you out here.
Hi Jesse,
I can see you are very passionate about this and feel the need to use generalizations, superlatives and capitalization.
To me, although I can relate to some of what you are saying, this comes across as very emotional and somewhat demanding.
What do you think when you read back your first post after a little while and about my feedback on this?
Here are some tips that might help you:
Tip #1 Breathe In, Breathe out. Repeat until your relax. Don't post when you are somewhat emotional. Giving your feedback is great. But the style you used in not always productive.
Tip #2 Written language is a poor medium to properly express emotions or intent. Hence you might want to tone down a bit on the superlatives, generalizations and capitalization. You'll see your message comes across with more effectiveness.
Tip #3 Have patience. Keen is listening and they are working to address the community feedback. There are few development teams I see this engaged with their user community (and I've been around for a while). So far, I hear them addressing your concerns. Listen to the webcast from yesterday. They touched upon letting people tell their own story. It is still part of the DNA of the system, including the options to modify it to suit the story you want to tell.
It is great you are so passionate. Many of us are. But you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. You'll see when you adjust the style of your message that the reactions, in particular the first ones, will be a lot more to your liking than what you got this time .
I'm pretty sure you didn't mean it bad. And life is ongoing learning and development. (And failing at times again, I know I do.)
I'm also sure the game will become something you enjoy in the end.
P.S.1 Giving feedback is usually best done in the form (usually f2f, but you can extrapolate from that in a forum):
1. I see, note, etc. - state facts
2. It makes me feel x, y and or z.
3. What do you think?
2b or 3b optional: provide some suggestions towards improvement
P.S.2 Apologies if this comes across as a bit patronizing. Please believe me when I only intend to help you out here.
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