Confiscate / liberate block

Deon Beauchamp ●

Should the opposite block exist too, one that could equip you?

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captainbladej52 ●

You can already accomplish something akin to this, just requires a tiny bit of manual interaction. You can set a sorter to pull certain stuff to a dedicated cargo bay, then when you get back have another one send the stuff back to whatever you want it to go to. So essentially a cargo bay between 2 sorters. You can even slap a basic 4 button panel down to control it all better and call it good. Stuff like some of the inventory management scripts can be icing on the cake if one is willing to use those.

Overall we need better ways to manage inventory in general. Long as this could use pre-set stuff I would consider using. By that I mean I can pull up a preferred standard loadout of tools, weapons, and so on.

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Deon Beauchamp ●

@Captainbladej52 So will this method pull items out of the characters inventory?

The block that I have suggested will act like a customs gate for the players engineer character.

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Semtex ●

What is the purpose?

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Tael ●

Having a block automatically forcibly extract something from a player's inventory (or forcibly add something) is just asking for problems and abuse. If you want to build some manner of "customs enforcement" gate, you'd be better off creating a door that can scan inventories and wont open if it detects the contraband items (or doesn't detect the required equipment for the other way round).

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Deon Beauchamp ●

Its purpose is to change circumstances, to limit possible actions, to spook, it is not like an inhibitor.

Surrendering your weapons when going into a market and leaving the possibility that other weapons in the market still work.

The block can be used for captives before entering the brig. Assuming re-cloning may have a problem at the time

The opposite block function is for rapidly re-kitting for an away team, controlling starting kit when entering an arena, ensuring you have an item before EVA.

I think you can do this with scenario editors, but this is flexible and in game.

The block would be easy to recognise, and with intelligence, circumventable.

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captainbladej52 ●

@Deon: So I've got to ask at this point what exactly are you proposing this block to do? Because respectfully you're all over the place on this. First you talk about "A block that removes objects from your possession when you pass through it." and mention "Normally to take weapons or tools." Then after I mentioned that you can already do most of this now with a little extra setup and a minor bit of manual interaction, you then throw this bit at us stating "So will this method pull items out of the characters inventory?" acting as though I've got the wrong idea about what your proposing. You then go on to say "The block that I have suggested will act like a customs gate for the players engineer character." which goes right back to what I mentioned before about pulling/pushing things into or out of a players inventory. So I've got to ask, what is the purpose of this block? What is the intended function of it and what are you suggesting exactly. Because on the one hand you suggest it could take things or give it to them if people pass through it. Then on the opposite side of the coin when myself or one of the others has mentioned that bit, you behave like that's not what you're proposing the block do. So forgive me if I'm a little confused here.

Far as the block goes I'm going to ask some of the obvious questions here. If you're not suggesting that it could take/give items by force, then what is it supposed to do other than scan an inventory? Because if you want a block that can scan player inventories, Keen could easily expand the functionality of the Sensor block to include detecting certain items in a player's inventory. And if your concern is loading/unloading an inventory then see my previous comment as there are already easy ways to do it, you just need a little bit of first time setup and you're good. Otherwise what you're proposing is just a knockoff of the Sensor.

If you're wanting to actually be able to push/pull items into an inventory then I'm going to agree with Tael that there's WAYYYY too much potential for abuse with actually doing something like that. When he eventually reads this I'm sure he'll be as shocked as I am we agreed on something lol. In seriousness, all this would take is for some modder to increase the scanning field range, change it to include blocks as well, then have it magically drain said inventory and blocks without ever having to engage the other person. Essentially just zip in, beam their inventory aboard, and then zip away without ever having to fire a shot or engage the other player. Or if they made it so it only works on station grids, all they need to do is jack up the range, poof into station mode long enough to flash the effect and loot everything, poof back to ship mode and gone. Pardon the terminology but this has the potential to become another wet dream for griefers and that's not something we should be encouraging.

If your concern is being able to resupply your engineer or rekit them as you put it, there's a far easier way. All Keen would need to do is give us some more inventory management options similar to some of the inventory management scripts out there now. Have it so a dedicated cargo bay will always stock a specific loadout and only that loadout. Then when you unload you can put it into another container that ships it back to wherever.

@Deon: So I've got to ask at this point what exactly are you proposing this block to do? Because respectfully you're all over the place on this. First you talk about "A block that removes objects from your possession when you pass through it." and mention "Normally to take weapons or tools." Then after I mentioned that you can already do most of this now with a little extra setup and a minor bit of manual interaction, you then throw this bit at us stating "So will this method pull items out of the characters inventory?" acting as though I've got the wrong idea about what your proposing. You then go on to say "The block that I have suggested will act like a customs gate for the players engineer character." which goes right back to what I mentioned before about pulling/pushing things into or out of a players inventory. So I've got to ask, what is the purpose of this block? What is the intended function of it and what are you suggesting exactly. Because on the one hand you suggest it could take things or give it to them if people pass through it. Then on the opposite side of the coin when myself or one of the others has mentioned that bit, you behave like that's not what you're proposing the block do. So forgive me if I'm a little confused here.

Far as the block goes I'm going to ask some of the obvious questions here. If you're not suggesting that it could take/give items by force, then what is it supposed to do other than scan an inventory? Because if you want a block that can scan player inventories, Keen could easily expand the functionality of the Sensor block to include detecting certain items in a player's inventory. And if your concern is loading/unloading an inventory then see my previous comment as there are already easy ways to do it, you just need a little bit of first time setup and you're good. Otherwise what you're proposing is just a knockoff of the Sensor.

If you're wanting to actually be able to push/pull items into an inventory then I'm going to agree with Tael that there's WAYYYY too much potential for abuse with actually doing something like that. When he eventually reads this I'm sure he'll be as shocked as I am we agreed on something lol. In seriousness, all this would take is for some modder to increase the scanning field range, change it to include blocks as well, then have it magically drain said inventory and blocks without ever having to engage the other person. Essentially just zip in, beam their inventory aboard, and then zip away without ever having to fire a shot or engage the other player. Or if they made it so it only works on station grids, all they need to do is jack up the range, poof into station mode long enough to flash the effect and loot everything, poof back to ship mode and gone. Pardon the terminology but this has the potential to become another wet dream for griefers and that's not something we should be encouraging.

If your concern is being able to resupply your engineer or rekit them as you put it, there's a far easier way. All Keen would need to do is give us some more inventory management options similar to some of the inventory management scripts out there now. Have it so a dedicated cargo bay will always stock a specific loadout and only that loadout. Then when you unload you can put it into another container that ships it back to wherever.

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Deon Beauchamp ●

Main Function - The block takes items out of your backpack.

Hmm..imagine that you are at an airport and you are approaching a DHS checkpoint. There are barriers either side of a door frame which you are expected to walk through. Now you have a choice, turn back the other way, or walk through the door frame. The magical door frame will look at everything that you are carrying and decide if it wants to take anything. In that moment, the door frame like a lot of DMs, is 100% abusive. It has no authority beyond the door frame. After you have passed through the door frame no further abuse takes place. This door frame is configured for one job, to steal your stuff.

Secondary Function - may be - The block will add items to your backpack.

This was more of an after thought, I am not sure if this should be the same block or a different one. It is more of a QoL device, like your mom, making sure that you do not leave the house without taking certain items with you, did you take the extra hydrogen bottle, got ya gun, extra bullets?

Not sure what it would do if you have a full inventory.

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Tael ●

Imagine that you are approaching an ATM, and there's a card-skimmer disguised as part of the machine... Can you see where I'm going with this?

Something that detects and reacts to inventory is fine, you can build a door that stays closed if it detects contraband or doesn't detect the required field-kit, but the ability to forcibly take stuff out of or add stuff to someone else's inventory is just asking for abuse.

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Deon Beauchamp ●

There is no denying it, you pass through it, and it takes stuff, keeps game play interesting.

What is it that you see as being problematic?

You make the choice to go through the block.

It is a given that it will do something.

The block can give or take away, not both. That would require two blocks.

If you walk through with nothing, it can take nothing.

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captainbladej52 ●

@Deon Beauchamp: Then I was right the first time and this becomes a hell no from me. IF it was possible to make it so that it only effected me so I could guarantee that I left with proper loadout, then I could see me using this. Problem is that there is no way to guarantee that without major hardcoding and even then modders would find a way around it and then you've just handed griefers their wet dream of a block that would be even higher on their list than Jump Inhibitors. Scanning inventory and telling you what someone has is one thing, but outright taking items from an inventory or forcing them into one is something else entirely.

If you want to simply scan an inventory, then that's as easy as expanding the functionality of the Sensor block and having someone walk close to it. Then if it detects a contraband item you can have it trigger a door lock. Because there is no sense in making a completely separate block with that limited of functionality when they can just expand the scanning capability of an already existing one. Scanning inventory to know what's there is perfectly fine, and for that matter they could even give us a hand tool variant of a scanner. But forcibly adding/removing things from an inventory is going way too far.

I'm also glad Tael brought up the card skimmer example because that perfectly illustrates the point. That in mind I'm going to take it one step further.

As part of my 2125 era mod, I have a block known as the Sensor Array which is basically a giant sensor with ranged buffed to 30km in all directions. Since your block is basically just a sensor with extra functions, what would be to stop me as a modder from making a variant of my Sensor Array and having it use the contraband teleportation functions? Now all I have to do is turn my beacon down to the lowest possible setting, get within 30km of your ship, pop that field on, and I can rob your ship blind and warp out without you ever knowing I'm there. Or if I really wanted to be a jerk, I sit hidden within 30km of you and anytime you bring ores back, manufacture components or similar, it automatically loots them to me. Then what would you do? Assuming you wanted to try and find me, I could be anywhere within 11,310 square km of you. Even if you did find me, how do you think you're going to fight back if you can't get any ammo or fuels to power anything? Then I can just sit back and pick you off without you ever being a threat. Then repeat the process as many times as I want and I could guarantee you never get to play. Now tell me, do you really want to hand potential griefers that kind of power? Because that's exactly the kind of power you would be handing them.

I haven't agreed with Tael on alot of things, as you've seen some of our discussions. However if he and I both are telling you this is an issue, I would hope that's enough to make you stop and consider it more.

This is once again an instance where there are far far better options that can be implemented. Prime examples being expanding sensor functions to alert if it detects something in player inventory then locking a door. And if you want to always have a certain stock of stuff available, you can create a sorter loop like I described before to make sure a designated cargo bay always has a certain stock in it. This can be done easily by adapting a vanilla variant of some of the inventory management scripts out there.

@Deon Beauchamp: Then I was right the first time and this becomes a hell no from me. IF it was possible to make it so that it only effected me so I could guarantee that I left with proper loadout, then I could see me using this. Problem is that there is no way to guarantee that without major hardcoding and even then modders would find a way around it and then you've just handed griefers their wet dream of a block that would be even higher on their list than Jump Inhibitors. Scanning inventory and telling you what someone has is one thing, but outright taking items from an inventory or forcing them into one is something else entirely.

If you want to simply scan an inventory, then that's as easy as expanding the functionality of the Sensor block and having someone walk close to it. Then if it detects a contraband item you can have it trigger a door lock. Because there is no sense in making a completely separate block with that limited of functionality when they can just expand the scanning capability of an already existing one. Scanning inventory to know what's there is perfectly fine, and for that matter they could even give us a hand tool variant of a scanner. But forcibly adding/removing things from an inventory is going way too far.

I'm also glad Tael brought up the card skimmer example because that perfectly illustrates the point. That in mind I'm going to take it one step further.

As part of my 2125 era mod, I have a block known as the Sensor Array which is basically a giant sensor with ranged buffed to 30km in all directions. Since your block is basically just a sensor with extra functions, what would be to stop me as a modder from making a variant of my Sensor Array and having it use the contraband teleportation functions? Now all I have to do is turn my beacon down to the lowest possible setting, get within 30km of your ship, pop that field on, and I can rob your ship blind and warp out without you ever knowing I'm there. Or if I really wanted to be a jerk, I sit hidden within 30km of you and anytime you bring ores back, manufacture components or similar, it automatically loots them to me. Then what would you do? Assuming you wanted to try and find me, I could be anywhere within 11,310 square km of you. Even if you did find me, how do you think you're going to fight back if you can't get any ammo or fuels to power anything? Then I can just sit back and pick you off without you ever being a threat. Then repeat the process as many times as I want and I could guarantee you never get to play. Now tell me, do you really want to hand potential griefers that kind of power? Because that's exactly the kind of power you would be handing them.

I haven't agreed with Tael on alot of things, as you've seen some of our discussions. However if he and I both are telling you this is an issue, I would hope that's enough to make you stop and consider it more.

This is once again an instance where there are far far better options that can be implemented. Prime examples being expanding sensor functions to alert if it detects something in player inventory then locking a door. And if you want to always have a certain stock of stuff available, you can create a sorter loop like I described before to make sure a designated cargo bay always has a certain stock in it. This can be done easily by adapting a vanilla variant of some of the inventory management scripts out there.

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Deon Beauchamp ●

@Captainbladej52 I hope that I have got this right, you have no problem with the block, but do have a problem with its mechanism. A mechanism that could be modded and used for far more nefarious purpose. So, if the mechanism was not exploitable, would you be OK with it?

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captainbladej52 ●

@Deon Beauchamp: what I'm telling you is that from a programming perspective it's nearly impossible to prevent abuse of such a block. First you would need to hardcode so many things to prevent said abuse that you may as well just make it a deco block. That also assumes people can't find a way around the hardcoding with mods or other methods. Then if they didn't hardcode everything they possibly could, you're giving an instant "I win" button to griefers. See what I mentioned previous just using my Sensor Array as an example. All I would need to do is make a confiscator variant and I could lock down over 11,000 square km of area with one block.

I have no problems with a block simply scanning inventory and telling people what's in it, then triggering something like a door lock as no harm is done to a grid or engineer simply by knowing what's in their inventory. However what I DO HAVE a problem with is the whole forcibly removing/adding to an inventory. Because then you've created a block with no counter that can harm another person's grid or the engineer themselves for purely existing in the wrong area and that's 500 pounds of nope in a 5 pound bag.

Scanning inventories can easily be taken care of by expanding the function of the Sensor block and then letting it trigger another block to turn on some security turrets, lock a door, or similar if it detects contraband. Then far as making sure certain loadouts are always ready to go, this is easily addressed by allowing sorters to apply certain player defined loadouts to specific blocks. Such as if I wanted a cargo bay to always have a rifle, some ammo, a set of tools, a bottle, datapad, and some credits. I just go to the sorter or even the cargo bay itself depending and tell it to use "loadout A" or something.

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Mike Hook ●

I would rather see some hacking gameplay where you have to figure out a puzzle or a minigame of some kind that will allow you to incrementally take over systems on an enemy grid.

This would draw the player that much more into the world of SE than simply grinding things down to take them over.

It should also have a difficulty slider for "Hacking Difficulty" in the Game Save Settings to increase/decrease hacking difficulty.

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Confiscate / liberate block

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