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Recreate all 33x SE1 armor blocks with only 19 "Elemental" blocks

GenKnowledg shared this feedback ago

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Context

In SE2, >25cm blocks don't need to exclusively occupy the whole cubic volume they sit in. This new system isn't yet being exploited to its full potential for both new shape creation and old shape recreation.

Opportunity

It'd be possible to recreate all 33 armor block shapes from SE1 (plus 100s more) using a combination of only 19 elemental blocks in SE2 (see attached). These blocks do not wholly crossover with the 14 armor shapes (and 3-4 additional decor shapes) we currently get to use.

Some tl;dr notes:

With the 14 current blocks, it is possible to recreate 3 more large armor blocks from the SE1 set (7 more for small armor blocks, combined with decor pieces), but another 12-16 classic blocks remain impossible at this time.
Technically, more large-grid blocks can be made using small-grid blocks, but PCU is still a consideration - it feels a "waste" to spend up to 125 PCU to recreate one large SE1 armor block (2-8 PCU would be much more acceptable).
If attempting to recreate SE1 large grid half blocks in SE2 using small grid blocks, the 1:5 height/width/depth ratio creates the need to awkwardly combine a patchwork of décor and small armor together. This looks messy.
The current system has one block that effectively gets used twice. Once as a light armor block ("half slope corner") and once as a décor block ("corner").

Proposal

I propose that Keen retire the concept of the separate, tiny "decor" blocks (people seem to be struggling to find them in the menu anyway) and implement instead, as a minimum, 19 "elemental" armor blocks at both scales and both weights (so 19*4=76 total). This will ultimately reduce the amount of future block "bloat", which makes hotbar management impractical. It will also allow the creation of 100's of entirely new shapes at the 2.5m and 0.5m scales: the two ergonomic scales that Keen have championed for use.

Caveats

19x blocks should be the minimum - there's still value in having many frequent-use blocks with PCU=1, even if they're not technically elemental - e.g. the classic 2.5m cube, the 2.5x1.25m half block etc.
(Rounded blocks not included for consideration here)

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Replies (6)

GenKnowledg ●

Agh, I can't delete or edit this ticket, but I'd like to suggest something simpler.

Problems to Solve

The issues I'm having are:

Detailing at 2.5m level requires an enormous amount of PCU - there aren't enough half-size blocks
The 0.25m decor/detailing blocks being in a special category is counter-intuitive
The UI for selecting different size and shape of blocks is quickly frustrating
Some blocks from SE1 are still missing.

Proposed Solution

Add remaining shapes from SE1 that can't be built as composites of other blocks
There should be 4 armor block sizes: 0.25m, 0.5m, 1.25m, 2.5m -- the 1.25m size will bridge the gap between "small" and "large", which are now mostly obsolete concepts from SE1. This will allow new levels of detail on large grid builds whilst also significantly reducing CPU, allowing for better designs to be used in practice.
Decor/detail blocks should be replaced with a "smallest" light armor block size
The key-bindings to change the shape and size of blocks should be different - instead of being presented as a single list

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Robert Butcher ●

Personally I love the new decor blocks and have had absolutely no issue finding them (hint the decor blocks are listed as decor blocks).

If you look at the 2x1 slope blocks you will see that the essence of what you suggested is already implemented, I've not checked every permutation but it looks that you can already make most everything.

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GenKnowledg ●

> (hint the decor blocks are listed as decor blocks).

I'm aware, but my point is that they are functionally small armor blocks (and one is identical) - so codifying them differently doesn't seem very rational. It would be better to just have 3 sizes of block under the same name, with the ability to toggle between different sizes - very small, small and large (plus, I'm arguing here, also a fourth size: "medium")

>the essence of what you suggested is already implemented

Have a look at the attached diagram - there are currently *16x* 2.5m blocks from SE1 that either can't be made at all, or would require a disproportionate amount of PCU to be made from small blocks

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Eddie Gonzalez ●

I think something that would be nice to have is an optimizer function or out of game tool. If a accidentally create a shape that exist at a higher size volume, then convert that multipart shape the single larger block. Additionally allow me to "break" / carve a larger block into smaller shapes.This means that 25cm needs to have every possible facet shape available.

This optimization step could be a finalizing / optional in-progress step so that the creative process is not disrupted, but for actual use of the grid, PCU can be reduced to minimum.

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Rob Mayer ●

Very well thought out and your diagram is beautifully done. +1

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GenKnowledg ●

Update: I can't delete this suggestion but I would like to withdraw it and submit this one instead:

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/45896-add-medium-size-armor-blocks-1-25m-to-reduce-pcu-count-and-hotbar-bloat

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TacticalTurtlez ●

you incorrectly marked one of the large and small blocks as "impossible". As for practical I would have to know what you mean by that as I'd argue that 2 blocks is fairly practical.

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DELTACX10 ●

all sizes should have the same shapes and be in the same category, i came from stormworks which has a .25m grid so no way i want to build with the massive .5m system for small to medium vehicles.

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