Survival Refined

Johannes shared this feedback 56 days ago
Under Consideration

Survival would be great if it had resources spread around the planet and in space. Let’s say you have your base in a desert location. Here you can find, always basic resources, but unique for this location is gold. To find gold, you need to search for a dark patch on the ground. Step 2 you must put 3 basic scanners in a triangle. turn them on and wait 1 minute. There is 1/8 chance there is gold. then you mine. Later you can build advanced scanners that are faster and can find deeper ore then maybe you can find 1/5 of the dark patches. some of that the basic scanners would have missed. There are also just dark patches without any resources. So don't start digging on any dark patch.


If you want (for example) titanium, you need to go to the ice part of the planet, forest has a 3d, a 4th in mountains maybe something under water. some recourse should be located only off planet.


That way you must build mining facilities around the planet, mining stations in space.


Containers should have a timer to empty/load. That way there would be a reason to carry an empty container to a mining site, and faster to just exchange the container/s. Of course, you can automate when you have enough resources to build the AI blocks.


You will also have to protect the mining facilities and carrier ships from NPC attacks.


Al this at the same time, like they introduced in the first game. There should be ancient parts, that you cannot build, you have to find them first, grind off the attached grid, finally transport to your base/ship and install them.


If you do not like the grind, there should be a custom difficulty setting.

With sliders:

Make the load/unload containers faster.

Make attacks less frequent or not at all.

Make resources scanners faster

Make resources spawn (meteors fall) more frequently so you do not have to search as much.

Make resource gathering faster.

Make drills work faster in both modes, if they keep the same 2 mode as in first game.

But harder difficult settings should be locked.

Inventory sliders, character and containers

+more setting


Respect the grind, all hail Clang.

Replies (5)

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Hail Clang.

Have you looked at the transmutation of metals via intense electrical discharge, often found in calderas?

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Do you suggest there should be different metals/alloys in volcanic craters? That would be nice. Like the struggle to mine the metal/alloy while avoiding lava (that is rumored to be in the game later)

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If you have friends that likes SE and would enjoy this type of gameplay, please ask them to upvote

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I need this! :)

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The universe (the real one) is more or less the same everywhere. Simply because it is created by the same processes everywhere. Everything - literally everything - heavier than hydrogen and helium comes from the ashes of long-dead giant stars that exploded as supernovae. That should be the basic assumption.

There is no element that is only found in space on asteroids but not on planets. Rather the opposite - some elements are only found in meaningfully extractable quantities on planets. On asteroids, they are found in quantities of " plutonium worth two cents and uranium worth one". Planets in reality are formed from millions of clumps of dirt and tailings, originally called asteroids, which are clumped together and compressed by gravity. Everywhere in the universe...

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While this is true, as far as I understand things, most of the heavier elements (unless bound in a compound that makes them lighter) tend to be buried deeply on planets (due to that gravity thing) with an inconvenient mountain in the way, while on an asteroid, they're somewhat evenly spread out, so, on average, they're easier to get at.

Edit: This would tend to make things like platinum and uranium disproportionately rare in the surface layer and carbon and silicon disproportionately common.

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Not only because of gravity, but also because many metals are "siderophile" - they bind well in alloys with iron in any proportion - and there's always enough iron to pull them into the core with it while the planet is still molten and liquid.

The fact that we have metals available in the Earth's "crust" may have been caused by Theia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theia_(planet)

It may not have happened elsewhere, such an event at the right time would be rare, and Earth is thus a rare to unique exception.

But that's getting off topic.

Anyway - small asteroids that are "primordial" and have not undergone remelting in a larger body will not contain larger deposits (visible to the eye) of minerals. There are a minority of such in the solar system - most (<70%?) of the solar asteroids come from the asteroid 4-Vesta and three or four other bodies that were completely smashed up in collisions with each other during the evolution of the solar system.


On the other hand - technical metals such as iron, nickel, aluminium,... should be relatively abundant everywhere, even in primordial bodies. They're just part of a motley mix of all sorts of things...

Then the additional refinery blocks should work differently than in the SE - they shouldn't increase the refinery's output or speed, but allow for the separation of increasingly rare elements. And they wouldn't be filled with minerals, but simply "general asteroid rock", which actually contains "everything".

IMHO a refinery should also produce gases - at least oxygen.


Abundance of the chemical elements in Solar system and probably our Galaxy too


1280px-SolarSystemAbundances

Actually, it could be done like this:

Survival kit separates 50% of the elemental content above level 5.5 in the graph, and dumps everything else as L1 tailings (which still contains quite a few elements that a simple separator can't separate - so it's also a raw material).

Basic Refinery separates 75% of the elemental content above level 4-4.5 (and discards the rest as L2 tailings) - so it can be filled with L1 tailings as well, similarly other blocks can process tailings.

The first additional separation block increases the efficiency to 80% of the elemental content and reduces the level to 2.5. Produces L3 tailings.

The second additional separation block increases the efficiency to 85% and reduces the level to 0.5. It produces L4 tailings.

The third block increases the efficiency to 90% content and reduces the level to -2.5. It should theoretically produce no more "waste", practically... I don't know, I can't think of anything sensible. There's still 10% of the original content of "everything"... circulation to infinity?

The fourth additional unit is the isotope separation unit - it produces nuclear fuel from raw uranium. Or the transmutation block...

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continue....

The base refinery also produces organic matter - crude oil, to oversimplify.

A second additional separation unit processes the crude oil into plastic and organic fertiliser.

A third additional separation unit processes crude oil (or organic fertiliser?) into pharmaceuticals and drugs.

The chart of elemental abundances in the solar system includes the Sun, Jupiter, Saturn and other gas planets, so hydrogen is abundant. On Earth, the hydrogen content is at ~4, helium at ~1. On the Moon (and asteroids) it's even less...


It is probably pointless to try to create a use for all elements. It wouldn't make much practical sense.

The basic structural metals and materials separated by the refinery:

- Iron

- duralumin (as a mixture of Mg+Al),

- nickel - also for steelmaking

- cobalt - also for steelmaking

- titanium

- alloying metals as a mixture of Cr, V, Mn... - for steel production

- silicon (for semiconductors)

- fused silica - for glass and insulation

- rare earth metals (not further distinguished, for semiconductors and reactor components)

- alkali metals (sodium, potassium, calcium...) and other elements (S, P...) could serve as "fuel" (reaction mass) in ion engines. Or at least significantly increase their performance.

- copper and zinc - either separately or as mixture - brass


- lead separately?

- precious metals as a mixture? or separately?

--- silver

--- gold

--- platinum and platinum metals as mixture


- nitrogen

- oxygen

- noble gases as a mixture

- halides as a mixture


Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

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While your statements are true, my base of survival refined is not realism its playability.

Like this:

I need Materials to build. I can build a land rover. To build an engine I need (this or that) Okay.

Line:

I need a supply line with material.

I need to protect my miners and supply lines.

I need to build more and better ships

Repeat at first line:


Simplified:

Build

Mine

Transport

Protect

Repeat

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The fundamental flaw in your concept is the word "protect".

From whom?

Where does your rival get his resources from?


This logical problem, or rather nonsense, accompanies the entire SE game.

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The NPCs like: Enemy Drone ships/Pirates

It is my understanding that they will be added to SE2, maybe even SE1

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Ah yes, but what to do with that condensed matter metallic hydrogen lattice?

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Deon, Semtex and Martin. Please leve a thumbs up as well. I would be very gratefull.

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Nice sawtooth wave on the chart, I wonder how it sounds when played. Is there something missing between Mo and Ru, I should check Walter Russell's Octave charts of the elements.

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Between Mo and Ru is the technicium Tc, whose isotopes have a half-life of 4.2 million years.

Naturally abundant at the level -7 - -9? (they are rarely produced when uranium decays)

Similarly, between neodymium Nd and samarium Sm is missing promethium Pm with a half-life of 17 years

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Looking at the Pioneer Pdf it looks like this may be planned

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Yes, but i still think this ads some importatnt details

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"The universe (the real one) is more or less the same everywhere."

Only when you zoom our far enough, otherwise mines wouldn't be regional.

Heck, there's even concentrations of uranium dense enough to create their own natural reactor, yet most areas have nearly none.

By "far enough", I mean interstellar scales. Otherwise all our planets would be the same, rather than a group of rocky, gas, and ice planets.

"There is no element that is only found in space on asteroids but not on planets."

Maybe not "only", but certainly with significant differences in densities.

Iridium is incredibly rare on Earth, but abundant in asteroids. That's literally how we know what killed the non-avian dinosaurs (and when).

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[quote]Iridium is incredibly rare on Earth, but abundant in asteroids. [/quote]

Nope - Iridium is incredibly rare on Earth's crust, and that's not the same. Iridium is strongly siderophilic, so it went into the Earth's core along with iron and nickel. Like most platinum metals, gold...


About the natural reactor at Oklo in Gabon - this is a very old structure, estimated to be between 1.7 and 2 billion years old. At that time, the 235U content of natural uranium was about 3% (0.72% today). It was therefore sufficient to separate the heavy uranium ores in the watercourse into a suitable repository, in the same way that gold and other heavy minerals are separated in watercourses into 'bonanza' river repositories.

Uranium is a lithophilic element, so it remained in the minerals of the Earth's crust. That is also why the uranium (and thorium) content of the Earth's crust is about 100 times higher than the average in the solar system.

f0265dadeca48f7bdd05d51c2dc7d661

Black - abundance in earth's crust, Grey - abundance in solar system

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I like the overall idea of putting certain resources in other places, so you have to travel around. be required to go to different planets for resources. but instead of the probability of resources spawning I think using the ore detector as an antenna to see where the ores are located would be better.

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Maybe a in game wiki, that explains what area you can search for sertain materials?

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Sounds good to me. Also good that you can choose how much grind you want.

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i would love to know what keens vision for survival is because in se1 there was no survival gameplay other then dont die to derpy wolfs and spiders or turning your ship into a lawndart

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I would also like to know the plans. Is there anywhere I could read about it?

Nice description with the lawndart 🤣

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James and RalfLEt me know if you find anything about planed survival.

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Yeah, simpler to just have a few special resources generate on specific planets.

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If you wanted to have different resources in different places, you would have to do a distribution where folks can still build all of the critical blocks to get from planet to planet in a reasonable time frame. Such as if you need cobalt to build Jump Drives, you would need to make sure there is at least trace amounts of it available on the other planets and locations so they can build a Jump Drive to get there in a reasonable time frame. You couldn't remove cobalt completely because then anyone who starts in the cobalt location is automatically leagues ahead of those who didn't to the point you've completely unbalanced the game. Now if you want to do that for your world/server that's perfectly fine, but you could never do that for the game as a whole. Because giving people the ability to make the jump drives fairly easy while basically telling others to hoof it for several hours just to get to the same place would be ridiculous. This is just an example, and I admit towards the extreme end of the spectrum, but you get the idea I hope.


I don't mind different resource distributions, but they would need to be done in a way that all start locations are still viable. And you would need to make sure one isn't given a super huge advantage over the other to the point that if you pick anything other than that particular start you're doing it wrong.

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Thank you for your comment, Captain

Resources that should always be available. Are the basics, to build basic stuff.

Let’s say you start on a planet, you can build smaller wheels.

You now need to visit maybe 3 biomes to get the resources to build atmospheric engines. You need to visit 5 biomes to get hydrogen thrusters to be able to exit in to space.

To be able to get a better vacuum engine you need to mine asteroids

To get let’s say engine upgrades (lets make it a thing) , you need resources on the second planet.

Same thing with weapons, armor, refinery upgrades, and so on.

When ready you can pursue the endgame blocks that you need to dislodge from “ruins” (prototec) to be able to have in your base. And these should be protected.

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This is so exiting an new VS today!

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