Modding in Space Engineers 2 - Steam Workshop

bob smith ●

The Steam Workshop is a very nice place to work. Easy to find mods, easy to manage them, no insane censors blocking works like cockpit. I know Keen wants to encourage more modders to upload mods for console but I dont think forcing Modio on everyone is the right way to do it. Its more likely to just drive away allot of modders.

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2

gruzzob ●

I'm only going to address a few points, since those are the ones that are misleading, inaccurate, or straight up wrong.

Ease of Use.

1. "The Steam Workshop makes uploading, updating, and managing mods incredibly straightforward. Modders can publish their creations with minimal effort and provide updates quickly and efficiently."

The Steam Workshop does not make uploading or updating mods straightforward. It in fact provides no tooling to do so. The provided/official way is to fire up SE, go to the Load Game Screen, in to the settings for a save, and then in to the mod list for that save. From there you have the ability to "publish" mods, but it is never made clear that it is also how you update them too.

This workflow isn't provided by Steam, Steam doesn't provide one. While there are community tools, they are just that... community made.

Additionally the Steam Workshop has odd and completely unexplained restrictions like the thumbnail size limit of 1MB. And the thumbnail itself is a part of how un-straightforward managing your steam mods are. You can't update the thumbnail through the workshop interface. Nope, its a part of the mod itself and needs to be changed via updating the *entire mod*. ie firing up SE, going in the load game screen, etc

Integrated Functionality:

1. "Space Engineers’ current system allows players to directly access and add mods to their worlds through the in-game menu, thanks to the Steam Workshop integration. This level of convenience is unparalleled and has become a standard expectation for modders and players alike."

You can do that with mod.io in SE. It's not a Steam Workshop thing. mod.io is a first class citizen within SE and has all the same features within the game. ie this entire point is moot.

Community Ecosystem:

1. "The Steam Workshop fosters a vibrant community where modders can showcase their work, receive feedback, and collaborate with others. This ecosystem has been a critical factor in the thriving modding scene for Space Engineers."

>fosters a vibrant community

Like where most of the big mods/frameworks have disabled comments on their pages, and require you join their Discord for help and feedback?

Or where many other games known for their modding and don't use the Steam Workshop have vibrant and thriving modding communities?

Lack of Choice:

1. Previously, Mod.io was an optional platform for modders who wanted to share their work with console players. Forcing all modders to transition to Mod.io removes their ability to choose the platform that works best for them and their audience.

You mean like SE with the Steam Workshop for the first.. how many years was it? well SE was out on Steam for seven years before the first console release, admittedly neither got mod/workshop support immediately. Which actually leads on to the next point: fragmentation.

Community Disconnection:

1. The Steam Workshop is home to an established and active modding community. Moving exclusively to Mod.io fragments this community, making it harder for modders and players to connect and collaborate.

We already have fragmentation because of the two workshops in SE. Pick one - lack of choice. Have two - fragmentation.

Choice in this kind of situation leads to fragmentation. I get arguing for one or the other, but these last two points (which are one after the other in your post) are diametrically opposed to each other.

Heck, this disconnection from Steam means that.. it's not tied to Steam. This will mean that Keen isn't.. tied to Steam, should they ever want to release SE2 on other platforms. Oh wait this happened with SE and they needed to add mod.io support for those other platforms. And this caused fragmentation.

I'm not even going to touch on monetization since it's a system that is entirely on Keen to implement, and they haven't said anything about it. Heck, they have barely said anything about mod.io at all and people are getting up in arms about it.

I'm only going to address a few points, since those are the ones that are misleading, inaccurate, or straight up wrong.

Ease of Use.

1. "The Steam Workshop makes uploading, updating, and managing mods incredibly straightforward. Modders can publish their creations with minimal effort and provide updates quickly and efficiently."

The Steam Workshop does not make uploading or updating mods straightforward. It in fact provides no tooling to do so. The provided/official way is to fire up SE, go to the Load Game Screen, in to the settings for a save, and then in to the mod list for that save. From there you have the ability to "publish" mods, but it is never made clear that it is also how you update them too.

This workflow isn't provided by Steam, Steam doesn't provide one. While there are community tools, they are just that... community made.

Additionally the Steam Workshop has odd and completely unexplained restrictions like the thumbnail size limit of 1MB. And the thumbnail itself is a part of how un-straightforward managing your steam mods are. You can't update the thumbnail through the workshop interface. Nope, its a part of the mod itself and needs to be changed via updating the *entire mod*. ie firing up SE, going in the load game screen, etc

Integrated Functionality:

1. "Space Engineers’ current system allows players to directly access and add mods to their worlds through the in-game menu, thanks to the Steam Workshop integration. This level of convenience is unparalleled and has become a standard expectation for modders and players alike."

You can do that with mod.io in SE. It's not a Steam Workshop thing. mod.io is a first class citizen within SE and has all the same features within the game. ie this entire point is moot.

Community Ecosystem:

1. "The Steam Workshop fosters a vibrant community where modders can showcase their work, receive feedback, and collaborate with others. This ecosystem has been a critical factor in the thriving modding scene for Space Engineers."

>fosters a vibrant community

Like where most of the big mods/frameworks have disabled comments on their pages, and require you join their Discord for help and feedback?

Or where many other games known for their modding and don't use the Steam Workshop have vibrant and thriving modding communities?

Lack of Choice:

1. Previously, Mod.io was an optional platform for modders who wanted to share their work with console players. Forcing all modders to transition to Mod.io removes their ability to choose the platform that works best for them and their audience.

You mean like SE with the Steam Workshop for the first.. how many years was it? well SE was out on Steam for seven years before the first console release, admittedly neither got mod/workshop support immediately. Which actually leads on to the next point: fragmentation.

Community Disconnection:

1. The Steam Workshop is home to an established and active modding community. Moving exclusively to Mod.io fragments this community, making it harder for modders and players to connect and collaborate.

We already have fragmentation because of the two workshops in SE. Pick one - lack of choice. Have two - fragmentation.

Choice in this kind of situation leads to fragmentation. I get arguing for one or the other, but these last two points (which are one after the other in your post) are diametrically opposed to each other.

Heck, this disconnection from Steam means that.. it's not tied to Steam. This will mean that Keen isn't.. tied to Steam, should they ever want to release SE2 on other platforms. Oh wait this happened with SE and they needed to add mod.io support for those other platforms. And this caused fragmentation.

I'm not even going to touch on monetization since it's a system that is entirely on Keen to implement, and they haven't said anything about it. Heck, they have barely said anything about mod.io at all and people are getting up in arms about it.

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2

Raidfire ●

Thank you for your detailed reply. I’d like to address your points to clarify why many of us in the modding community remain committed to the Steam Workshop and why we are concerned about transitioning exclusively to Mod.io.

Ease of Use:

While it's true that Steam Workshop integration in Space Engineers isn't perfect, the existing workflow has become familiar to many modders. You’re correct that the official method involves using the in-game menu to upload and update mods, which isn't ideal. However, community tools have evolved to fill these gaps and streamline the process. These tools, though unofficial, are widely adopted and demonstrate the modding community’s resilience and preference for the Steam ecosystem.
The issue with Mod.io isn't necessarily that it's harder to use, but that it introduces a completely new workflow that many experienced modders will have to adapt to. Transitioning to Mod.io disrupts well established practices and forces modders to rebuild workflows they’ve honed over years of using the Steam Workshop. The frustration isn’t just about change it’s about losing an ecosystem we’ve built around and integrated deeply into our modding practices.

Integrated Functionality:

Yes, Mod.io has functionality within the game, but it doesn't provide the same level of convenience and familiarity as the Steam Workshop for many PC modders. The Steam Workshop’s integration with Steam itself where users can easily browse, subscribe to mods, and see updates through the Steam client is a significant advantage. Mod.io lacks this external integration, which many users and modders find valuable for discovery and management.

Community Ecosystem:

The Steam Workshop’s ecosystem has indeed evolved over time. While some larger mods and frameworks direct users to Discord for feedback and support, this isn’t an inherent flaw of the Workshop but rather a choice by those creators. The Workshop still serves as a central hub for browsing, discovering, and initially interacting with mods.
Comparing Space Engineers to other games that don’t use Steam Workshop doesn’t negate the success that this community has had with it. Other games have their own ecosystems, but that doesn’t mean switching ecosystems is automatically better for Space Engineers.

Lack of Choice and Fragmentation:

The concern about choice leading to fragmentation is valid, but the context here matters. Previously, modders had the choice between Steam Workshop and Mod.io. Many opted to stick with the Workshop because it fit their needs and aligned with their workflows. By removing Steam Workshop, that choice is eliminated, and the transition becomes a forced one. This doesn’t solve fragmentation it forces consolidation at the cost of alienating modders who prefer the current system.
Moreover, the fragmentation argument applies more to the player base than the modding community. Modders will typically use the tools that align with their audience. Removing Steam Workshop could lead to some modders leaving altogether, thus reducing content availability for players. The result is fewer mods and potentially a diminished experience for users who are accustomed to the rich modding ecosystem Space Engineers currently enjoys.

Monetization:

While Keen hasn’t confirmed monetization for Mod.io, it remains a concern because Mod.io has the capability built into its platform. The worry isn’t baseless it’s a preemptive concern based on the platform’s features and potential directions. Monetization could shift the modding community’s focus from passion-driven creation to profit-driven competition, which risks undermining the collaborative and innovative spirit that has defined Space Engineers modding.
Additionally, introducing monetization could alienate players, who have become accustomed to free mods on the Steam Workshop. Charging for mods could introduce a financial barrier, reducing accessibility and fragmenting the player base between those who can afford mods and those who cannot.

Final Thoughts:

The frustration isn’t just about the shift to Mod.io it’s about the loss of an ecosystem that has worked well for many PC modders for years. The Steam Workshop isn’t without flaws, but it has been the foundation for a thriving modding community. Transitioning to Mod.io may be necessary for consoles, but forcing it as the sole option for PC modders feels like a step backward for those who have built their workflows and community around the Steam ecosystem.
Change is always challenging, but for a community as integral to the success of Space Engineers as its modders, it’s important that changes prioritize their needs and preferences. Keeping the Steam Workshop alongside Mod.io would allow Keen to expand modding support without alienating its core modding base. This would preserve the best of both worlds and ensure that the transition to Space Engineers 2 builds on the strong foundation of its predecessor.

Thank you for your detailed reply. I’d like to address your points to clarify why many of us in the modding community remain committed to the Steam Workshop and why we are concerned about transitioning exclusively to Mod.io.

Ease of Use:

While it's true that Steam Workshop integration in Space Engineers isn't perfect, the existing workflow has become familiar to many modders. You’re correct that the official method involves using the in-game menu to upload and update mods, which isn't ideal. However, community tools have evolved to fill these gaps and streamline the process. These tools, though unofficial, are widely adopted and demonstrate the modding community’s resilience and preference for the Steam ecosystem.
The issue with Mod.io isn't necessarily that it's harder to use, but that it introduces a completely new workflow that many experienced modders will have to adapt to. Transitioning to Mod.io disrupts well established practices and forces modders to rebuild workflows they’ve honed over years of using the Steam Workshop. The frustration isn’t just about change it’s about losing an ecosystem we’ve built around and integrated deeply into our modding practices.

Integrated Functionality:

Yes, Mod.io has functionality within the game, but it doesn't provide the same level of convenience and familiarity as the Steam Workshop for many PC modders. The Steam Workshop’s integration with Steam itself where users can easily browse, subscribe to mods, and see updates through the Steam client is a significant advantage. Mod.io lacks this external integration, which many users and modders find valuable for discovery and management.

Community Ecosystem:

The Steam Workshop’s ecosystem has indeed evolved over time. While some larger mods and frameworks direct users to Discord for feedback and support, this isn’t an inherent flaw of the Workshop but rather a choice by those creators. The Workshop still serves as a central hub for browsing, discovering, and initially interacting with mods.
Comparing Space Engineers to other games that don’t use Steam Workshop doesn’t negate the success that this community has had with it. Other games have their own ecosystems, but that doesn’t mean switching ecosystems is automatically better for Space Engineers.

Lack of Choice and Fragmentation:

The concern about choice leading to fragmentation is valid, but the context here matters. Previously, modders had the choice between Steam Workshop and Mod.io. Many opted to stick with the Workshop because it fit their needs and aligned with their workflows. By removing Steam Workshop, that choice is eliminated, and the transition becomes a forced one. This doesn’t solve fragmentation it forces consolidation at the cost of alienating modders who prefer the current system.
Moreover, the fragmentation argument applies more to the player base than the modding community. Modders will typically use the tools that align with their audience. Removing Steam Workshop could lead to some modders leaving altogether, thus reducing content availability for players. The result is fewer mods and potentially a diminished experience for users who are accustomed to the rich modding ecosystem Space Engineers currently enjoys.

Monetization:

While Keen hasn’t confirmed monetization for Mod.io, it remains a concern because Mod.io has the capability built into its platform. The worry isn’t baseless it’s a preemptive concern based on the platform’s features and potential directions. Monetization could shift the modding community’s focus from passion-driven creation to profit-driven competition, which risks undermining the collaborative and innovative spirit that has defined Space Engineers modding.
Additionally, introducing monetization could alienate players, who have become accustomed to free mods on the Steam Workshop. Charging for mods could introduce a financial barrier, reducing accessibility and fragmenting the player base between those who can afford mods and those who cannot.

Final Thoughts:

The frustration isn’t just about the shift to Mod.io it’s about the loss of an ecosystem that has worked well for many PC modders for years. The Steam Workshop isn’t without flaws, but it has been the foundation for a thriving modding community. Transitioning to Mod.io may be necessary for consoles, but forcing it as the sole option for PC modders feels like a step backward for those who have built their workflows and community around the Steam ecosystem.
Change is always challenging, but for a community as integral to the success of Space Engineers as its modders, it’s important that changes prioritize their needs and preferences. Keeping the Steam Workshop alongside Mod.io would allow Keen to expand modding support without alienating its core modding base. This would preserve the best of both worlds and ensure that the transition to Space Engineers 2 builds on the strong foundation of its predecessor.

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3

Prozon ●

"The Steam Workshop does not make uploading or updating mods straightforward. It in fact provides no tooling to do so. The provided/official way is to fire up SE, go to the Load Game Screen, in to the settings for a save, and then in to the mod list for that save. From there you have the ability to "publish" mods, but it is never made clear that it is also how you update them too. This workflow isn't provided by Steam, Steam doesn't provide one. While there are community tools, they are just that... community made."

This will be no different than with Mod.IO on SE2, however, many community members already utilize tools to upload their mods to Steam without needing to open SE. While yes, these are community made, they DO exist. These are not restricted to the "Space Engineers" community, we can utilize tools from any source as Steam is a HUGE platform with various resources available to us. So yeah, sure, we can make new tools, but it seems like unnecessary effort when referring to a perfectly working system as is.

"Additionally the Steam Workshop has odd and completely unexplained restrictions like the thumbnail size limit of 1MB. And the thumbnail itself is a part of how un-straightforward managing your steam mods are. You can't update the thumbnail through the workshop interface. Nope, its a part of the mod itself and needs to be changed via updating the *entire mod*. ie firing up SE, going in the load game screen, etc"

Mod.io has similar odd and unexplained restrictions.. you're not getting away from weird issues.

"Like where most of the big mods/frameworks have disabled comments on their pages, and require you join their Discord for help and feedback?"

I feel like this is personal preference and not platform specific. I would personally prefer to refer a user to my dedicated communication platform rather than searching comments. Mod.io offers no benefits to Steam in this regard. Mod authors like to build up a community and often this leads to great collaborations. Being someone who is in multiple modder Discords, I prefer being able to go to one place to talk about ANYTHING a mod author does, over trying to find links and comment on ten different mod pages.

"You mean like SE with the Steam Workshop for the first.. how many years was it? well SE was out on Steam for seven years before the first console release, admittedly neither got mod/workshop support immediately."

This is kind of a moot point as well. Steam had workshop support *from nearly the beginning* and many modders built their home there. Some were forced to also use Mod.Io due to consoles, but I'd wager a majority of them wouldn't have chosen to if there was an option. On that same note, many modders have stated they simply have no intention of using Mod.Io, so if they do not add Steam support, they simply won't mod SE2.

"We already have fragmentation because of the two workshops in SE. Pick one - lack of choice. Have two - fragmentation. Choice in this kind of situation leads to fragmentation. I get arguing for one or the other, but these last two points (which are one after the other in your post) are diametrically opposed to each other."

The difference is I think the fragmentation would be even worse, with many stating they simply won't use Mod.io for various reasons. So instead of people using system a or system b, its simply "not modding" or "use system a." We've had workshop support for over a decade, people have built up followers and subscribers, forcing them to a new system doesn't make sense, Marek has already commented publicly that if people dislike the decision, they will talk about Steam support. It seems its just a choice at this point, and there's not a real strong reason for not doing it, if there is, they should make that clear to the playerbase..

"Heck, this disconnection from Steam means that.. it's not tied to Steam. This will mean that Keen isn't.. tied to Steam, should they ever want to release SE2 on other platforms. Oh wait this happened with SE and they needed to add mod.io support for those other platforms. And this caused fragmentation."

I think any "fragementation" in the mod world when referring to mod.io currently is because the console version of SE is severely limited compared to the PC version. This limit actually prohibits certain mods from being used, and the rule of thumb generally refers to "mod.io mods are good with consoles" so there's a lot of annoyance when a modder is asked to move their mod there, as it can't work on a console. Overall *using* Mod.Io is much clunkier, so there's a lot of uproar about it as it is.