Taking Damage based on Speed gradually, not just over 20m/s
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Hello Keen and everyone,
i just saw the new video on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRe7kxsJ7j4) and wondered, why you would simply disable the damage overall under 20m/s.
My own conclusion as a software and game developer myself is, why not make it just based on speed generally, and setting down the Limit way further. I just think 20m/s is and should be enough speed to take damage if you ram it into an asteroid - but it shouldn't break apart - at least armor blocks shouldn't take much damage.
BR, Daniel
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Probably because turning the ship around fast easily makes it move 20ms, and smacking your ship tail into an asteroid and then not being able to go home again just feels bad from a gaming standpoint.
I get the realism, but there's really nothing more annoying in survival than having to micro repair the ship for every little mistake you make.
Probably because turning the ship around fast easily makes it move 20ms, and smacking your ship tail into an asteroid and then not being able to go home again just feels bad from a gaming standpoint.
I get the realism, but there's really nothing more annoying in survival than having to micro repair the ship for every little mistake you make.
The ideal would be to scale impact damage with momentum and have a damage threshold that scales with armour. A small, light ship with an appropriate amount of armour will bounce on a low-speed impact, as will a large, heavy ship with a proper amount of armour. A small enough, light enough ship might not need any armour, but the more mass you add, the more likely you are to break things off if you don't also add armour plating. The idea would be that the stock ship/station designs bounce at around 20m/s.
It would also be nice if armour included crumple zones so that you don't find that all of your functional blocks evaporated after a collision, but all of your armour blocks are still there (if not in good working order).
The ideal would be to scale impact damage with momentum and have a damage threshold that scales with armour. A small, light ship with an appropriate amount of armour will bounce on a low-speed impact, as will a large, heavy ship with a proper amount of armour. A small enough, light enough ship might not need any armour, but the more mass you add, the more likely you are to break things off if you don't also add armour plating. The idea would be that the stock ship/station designs bounce at around 20m/s.
It would also be nice if armour included crumple zones so that you don't find that all of your functional blocks evaporated after a collision, but all of your armour blocks are still there (if not in good working order).
20m/s is already a pretty high speed = 72km/h or 45mph in the normal world, so "no damage" up to 20m/s is a pretty high choice. Even 10m/s = 36km/h, ~22mph, is value enough for practical use. I wouldn't recommend lower values anymore, it unnecessarily complicates maneuvering and joining ships/grids.
There should be blocks that act as shock absorbers and buffers, with higher resistance to collision damage at "low" speeds, and also blocks predestined for contact between two grids, more resistant to damage from slow movements (or up to slowly "self-healing").
But one of the problems probably lies in the way stresses (and damage) are transferred in the ship's structure - in the SE, one could commonly observe the phenomenon where a resilient "armor" element or docking module withstood the impact, and the stock block located behind it broke apart.
The calculation of shock propagation in the structure itself can also be a problem - shock transmission in a line composed of ten blocks is calculated differently, and shock transmission in a bar/block of the same length is calculated differently. At the very least, the calculation for ten blocks will involve more mathematical operations and therefore more computational time. And this may be reflected in the final response of the construction...
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
20m/s is already a pretty high speed = 72km/h or 45mph in the normal world, so "no damage" up to 20m/s is a pretty high choice. Even 10m/s = 36km/h, ~22mph, is value enough for practical use. I wouldn't recommend lower values anymore, it unnecessarily complicates maneuvering and joining ships/grids.
There should be blocks that act as shock absorbers and buffers, with higher resistance to collision damage at "low" speeds, and also blocks predestined for contact between two grids, more resistant to damage from slow movements (or up to slowly "self-healing").
But one of the problems probably lies in the way stresses (and damage) are transferred in the ship's structure - in the SE, one could commonly observe the phenomenon where a resilient "armor" element or docking module withstood the impact, and the stock block located behind it broke apart.
The calculation of shock propagation in the structure itself can also be a problem - shock transmission in a line composed of ten blocks is calculated differently, and shock transmission in a bar/block of the same length is calculated differently. At the very least, the calculation for ten blocks will involve more mathematical operations and therefore more computational time. And this may be reflected in the final response of the construction...
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Now that's quite a scientific answer @Semtex :D
In my original post i wanted to say that it may be possible to calculate damage upon speed and gradually take lesser or none damage at lower to lowest speeds. (I think also that in general mass and velocity should also be concidered in the formula)
I mean, space engineers is all about physics, it's all about defined formulas. "We need X amount of thrust for Y amount of kg mass."
To me the formula "if speed is under 20m/s take absolutely no damage" is just too simple and doesn't match with the game as we know and love it.
But i do appreciate keen for working on damage on slower impacts on structures, as this is often a pain. I just hope that it will be solved more scientifically and realistic.
Now that's quite a scientific answer @Semtex :D
In my original post i wanted to say that it may be possible to calculate damage upon speed and gradually take lesser or none damage at lower to lowest speeds. (I think also that in general mass and velocity should also be concidered in the formula)
I mean, space engineers is all about physics, it's all about defined formulas. "We need X amount of thrust for Y amount of kg mass."
To me the formula "if speed is under 20m/s take absolutely no damage" is just too simple and doesn't match with the game as we know and love it.
But i do appreciate keen for working on damage on slower impacts on structures, as this is often a pain. I just hope that it will be solved more scientifically and realistic.
I wrote this in another thread, but it applies in this thread as well:
Too little speed for damage brings risk - large ships can easily reach high spatial speeds on their ends even with slow turning and careful maneuvering.
I wrote this in another thread, but it applies in this thread as well:
Too little speed for damage brings risk - large ships can easily reach high spatial speeds on their ends even with slow turning and careful maneuvering.
To be fair 20m/s is 44.7 MPH or 72 KPH. That is pretty dang fast. Not sure how strong these blocks are supposed to be (they sound hollow AF from the boot sounds XD)
To be fair 20m/s is 44.7 MPH or 72 KPH. That is pretty dang fast. Not sure how strong these blocks are supposed to be (they sound hollow AF from the boot sounds XD)
No damage under 20 is an excellent idea. progressive collision damage based on speed above 20 is a great idea
No damage under 20 is an excellent idea. progressive collision damage based on speed above 20 is a great idea
Probably what every one else wants but we need mass based collision not just velocity, momentum is the way to go. keep your safe flight crap to like 2-5m/s and have more resistance to angular momentum simple. The whole 20m/s allows Klang back into the scene you can merge ships of greatly differing masses. Yea lets just say were going away from Klang and then add something that for me made me instantly think this is gunna get buggy. If you Squish a tiny blue ship with the big red or blue ones they will merge in a broken fashion then blow up without much real damage. Not only is it Weird according to physics, it breaks the games one call out, Creation and "Destruction" never felt this good.
Probably what every one else wants but we need mass based collision not just velocity, momentum is the way to go. keep your safe flight crap to like 2-5m/s and have more resistance to angular momentum simple. The whole 20m/s allows Klang back into the scene you can merge ships of greatly differing masses. Yea lets just say were going away from Klang and then add something that for me made me instantly think this is gunna get buggy. If you Squish a tiny blue ship with the big red or blue ones they will merge in a broken fashion then blow up without much real damage. Not only is it Weird according to physics, it breaks the games one call out, Creation and "Destruction" never felt this good.
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