VS2.3 Feedback: Mining Should Reward Better Engineering, Not Better "Wiggle Drilling"
For the TL;DR folks: The Thesis
Space Engineers already provides some of the most satisfying engineering challenges in gaming. One of my favorite parts of the game is designing specialized machines: balancing thrust, conveyors, cargo capacity, power, and layout to create something purpose-built.
Mining should be one of the best examples of that philosophy.
However, I have noticed that the current mining experience sometimes encourages players to solve the problem through piloting technique rather than engineering design. This is not necessarily a request to simply make drills bigger or prescribe a specific solution.
The question I think is more interesting is:
"What behavior should mining encourage?"
Right now, mining often rewards becoming better at working around the drill rather than building a better mining machine.
The Engineering Fantasy
One of the things I love about Space Engineers is that the game allows players to create machines with a purpose. A mining ship should feel like a piece of industrial equipment.
The fun should come from questions like:
- How much cargo capacity do I need?
- How much thrust is enough?
- Should I prioritize efficiency or speed?
- Do I need defensive systems?
- How do I make this machine better?
The engineering challenge should be designing the machine.
The Current Incentive
As ores can exist deep underground, sometimes 80m+ below the surface, underground mining becomes necessary.
The problem I find myself solving is no longer: "How do I build a better mining ship?"
Instead, it becomes: "How do I make a tunnel just large enough that my ship fits behind the drill?"
This leads to what I would call Wiggle Drilling.
The player begins pivoting the ship around its center of mass and "porpoising" around to clear enough voxel space for the ship to enter the tunnel. Instead of using a drill like a boring machine, the pilot learns to "paint" voxels away with careful ship movement.
That made me stop and ask: What behavior is mining actually rewarding?
How This Affects Ship Design
This incentive starts influencing almost every mining ship I build.
Instead of asking: "What mining ship do I want to build?"
I start asking: "How narrow can I make this ship so it fits behind the drill?"
This creates some strange design pressures:
- Extremely narrow mining ships become more practical.
- Long drill-centered designs become preferable.
- More interesting layouts become harder to justify.
- Defensive systems, additional cargo, or utility equipment become more difficult because every additional block increases the excavation problem.
Eventually, I find myself abandoning more interesting mining ship concepts and simply building a wall of drills because it minimizes the Excavator problems.
Drill walls also introduce its own problems:
- Higher PCU usage.
- Increased grid complexity.
- More strain on simulation performance.
- Less satisfying engineering decisions.
Ideally, I would rather use fewer, more thoughtfully designed mining tools than simply stacking more drills to overcome the limitation.
The Engineering Trade-Off I Would Love To See
The goal is not simply making drills stronger or mining faster.
The engineering challenge I would love to see is being able to make meaningful trade-offs in mining ship design.
Right now, a large part of the design problem becomes: "How do I create a hole large enough for my ship to follow the drill?" Because drills only excavate a limited area around their contact point, ship designs are often pushed towards:
1) very narrow profiles,
2) large drill walls, or
3) specialized movement techniques to clear enough space.
Ideally, I would like mining ships to have more room for engineering decisions:
- Do I prioritize cargo capacity?
- Do I add defensive systems?
- Do I build a smaller, agile miner?
- Do I build a larger industrial platform?
- Do I sacrifice efficiency for survivability?
Those are the kinds of choices that make Space Engineers exciting.
The important part is not whether the final solution is larger drills, upgraded technology, attachments, or something else entirely. The important part is creating a system where the player's primary challenge is designing a better machine — not designing around the limitations of making the machine physically fit through the tunnel it creates.
My favorite engineering problems in Space Engineers are the ones where I improve the machine. I would love mining to create more of those moments.
The Cascading Effects (for good or ill)
This one interaction creates several downstream design compromises:
- Multiple drills become almost mandatory.
- Drill walls become an attractive solution.
- PCU usage increases.
- Ships become narrower than they otherwise need to be.
- Gyros fight against terrain while trying to enlarge tunnels through pivoting and Porpoising.
- Mining starts feeling like carefully scraping voxel edges instead of operating heavy industrial equipment.
The individual mechanics are not necessarily the problem. The question is what player behavior emerges from those mechanics.
What Kind Of Mining Behavior Should The Game Encourage?
I don't think the important question is: "How should drills be changed?"
There are many possible solutions, and the right one is ultimately up to Keen.
Maybe it is:
- Different drill progression.
- Improved excavation technology.
- New attachments.
- Specialized mining equipment.
- Something else entirely.
The implementation is less important than the outcome.
The core feedback is:
Mining currently rewards awkward ship movement more than thoughtful engineering.
The Goal
My favorite moments in Space Engineers are when I improve the machine instead of improving my workaround.
I want to spend my time designing a better miner, not becoming better at wiggle drilling.
The engineering should solve the mining problem — not the pilot.
I like this feedback
Some of the current issues with mining are in this write up, but I think there’s a couple of easily attainable solutions that the user mentioned, but didn’t go into with much detail Firstly, making the drill size, slightly large larger, so that the in-between drill bit pole things that end up happening. don’t happen Or makes smaller drill sizes so that you’re able to make multi size drill heads like for example, on this blueprint( https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3695393157 ) another solution to this is to add different modes for different types of mining for example adding a ground mode that allows for the drills to leave a flat Voxel path on the bottom of them allowing for vehicles to drive while digging more effectively The user brought up a big problem with drills and being able to have multi size drills or even multi size heads on drills or upgrades would be a good solution to this. overall good write up
Some of the current issues with mining are in this write up, but I think there’s a couple of easily attainable solutions that the user mentioned, but didn’t go into with much detail Firstly, making the drill size, slightly large larger, so that the in-between drill bit pole things that end up happening. don’t happen Or makes smaller drill sizes so that you’re able to make multi size drill heads like for example, on this blueprint( https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3695393157 ) another solution to this is to add different modes for different types of mining for example adding a ground mode that allows for the drills to leave a flat Voxel path on the bottom of them allowing for vehicles to drive while digging more effectively The user brought up a big problem with drills and being able to have multi size drills or even multi size heads on drills or upgrades would be a good solution to this. overall good write up
Well as the alpha stands now, everything seems to be a placeholder. Even wheels don't have basic functionality like setting steering and speed, driving by automation etc.
As for the engineering, space and planetary are two very different birds. But on a planet, I prefer proper industrial drill rigs, not small ships drilling away while hovering like a colibri. One incentive could be making drills heavier, or keeping the SE1 gravel mechanism and making mined stone/dirt heavy. Then a smaller ship is made less effective.
SE1 allowed for beautiful overengineered drill rovers carrying large piston towers and even mining the pancake shaped veins with hinged drills. It could even be automated to drill down until the specified ore was found, via sorters and event controllers. But these functions are not in the game yet and seem to come much later.
I'd also love to see semi-permanent mines built into rich veins, with small automated rovers mining and returning to the unload hub from the shafts, and auto trains bringing ores to the main base. It was kind of manageable in SE1.
None of that is possible now with what we have, also, mineral deposits are all small blobs. But this sounds more like engineering to me.
Well as the alpha stands now, everything seems to be a placeholder. Even wheels don't have basic functionality like setting steering and speed, driving by automation etc.
As for the engineering, space and planetary are two very different birds. But on a planet, I prefer proper industrial drill rigs, not small ships drilling away while hovering like a colibri. One incentive could be making drills heavier, or keeping the SE1 gravel mechanism and making mined stone/dirt heavy. Then a smaller ship is made less effective.
SE1 allowed for beautiful overengineered drill rovers carrying large piston towers and even mining the pancake shaped veins with hinged drills. It could even be automated to drill down until the specified ore was found, via sorters and event controllers. But these functions are not in the game yet and seem to come much later.
I'd also love to see semi-permanent mines built into rich veins, with small automated rovers mining and returning to the unload hub from the shafts, and auto trains bringing ores to the main base. It was kind of manageable in SE1.
None of that is possible now with what we have, also, mineral deposits are all small blobs. But this sounds more like engineering to me.
The fact that mechanical parts like pistons, rotors, hinges are locked behind going to space makes it impossible to build any kind of mechanical drill system - stationary or on a rover. One HAS to build a ship to leave planet to get the materials for the mechanics. And why not just use that ship to drill while it's there already?
The fact that mechanical parts like pistons, rotors, hinges are locked behind going to space makes it impossible to build any kind of mechanical drill system - stationary or on a rover. One HAS to build a ship to leave planet to get the materials for the mechanics. And why not just use that ship to drill while it's there already?
Didn't even get past the TLDR, and I was already nodding in agreement.
Wiggle seems to be a theme in SE. Subgrids wiggle, ships wiggle, trying to stabilize a grid seems to be more important than what the grid is intended to be doing.
Rover mining is almost non-existant. I would LOVE to be able to set an angle on a rover drill head and have it mine out a flat level floor/road. Somehow have it be stabilized even if the rover base bumps around on the uneven floor.
Tunnel boring machines have to be essentially stations, anchored to the ground before drilling or the result is all over the place.
Wiggle is OK though, if you give us proper tools to manage it.
Not to mention rotation wiggle. if you wiggle mine, you inevitably end up no longer upright. If you are mining on a planet, that means your main thrust is no longer pointing down, and you can end up "sliding" sideways into the wall and damaging your ship. Especially as you fill up cargo. Good luck safely flying back out.
Didn't even get past the TLDR, and I was already nodding in agreement.
Wiggle seems to be a theme in SE. Subgrids wiggle, ships wiggle, trying to stabilize a grid seems to be more important than what the grid is intended to be doing.
Rover mining is almost non-existant. I would LOVE to be able to set an angle on a rover drill head and have it mine out a flat level floor/road. Somehow have it be stabilized even if the rover base bumps around on the uneven floor.
Tunnel boring machines have to be essentially stations, anchored to the ground before drilling or the result is all over the place.
Wiggle is OK though, if you give us proper tools to manage it.
Not to mention rotation wiggle. if you wiggle mine, you inevitably end up no longer upright. If you are mining on a planet, that means your main thrust is no longer pointing down, and you can end up "sliding" sideways into the wall and damaging your ship. Especially as you fill up cargo. Good luck safely flying back out.
It's already possible to make a drilling ship that can go cleanly down it's own hole without 'wiggle drilling' you just need to adjust your drill placement. No vote.
It's already possible to make a drilling ship that can go cleanly down it's own hole without 'wiggle drilling' you just need to adjust your drill placement. No vote.
There are basically two mining environments: planets and space.
Mining in space is much easier because of zero-G.
Here are a few ideas that could make mining more interesting and give us more reasons to actually engineer stuff.
1. Huge deposits on planets
Planets should have some really huge ore deposits.
That would finally give us a reason to build proper mining equipment - heavy mining rovers, permanent mining rigs, processing outposts, cargo vehicles, etc.
Instead of flying around looking for another tiny vein and drilling thousands of holes everywhere, you could build actual mining infrastructure in rich regions with lots of resources. Or even on top on one giant resource vein.
2. Planet-only resources
Some rare resources should exist only on planets.
That way you can't just stay in zero-G forever and get everything you need. At some point you'll have to go down into gravity wells if you want certain advanced technologies.
Common resources like iron can still be easier to get in space. That makes sense since you'll need tons of it for building ships and stations. But maybe advanced weapons (and ammo) or some high-end components should require resources that only exist on planets.
3. Let us collect actual raw materials
Right now drills basically collect ingots straight from the ground. There isn't really a refining step anymore.
You can't collect sand as sand or rock as rock.
First, it breaks immersion. SE always had one of the best mining systems because you actually drilled the terrain instead of pointing a magic laser at it. Drills should collect raw material, not magically refine pure elements on the spot.
Second, collecting raw materials opens up a lot more gameplay.
Raw materials would naturally take up more cargo space, so mining logistics suddenly become a thing to worry about. Big mining rigs, processing plants, cargo rovers and dedicated infrastructure would all have an actual purpose.
Different raw materials could also have different concentrations of useful elements. Not every deposit would be equally good. Finding a really rich deposit would actually matter.
Add some better prospecting mechanics on top of that and ore hunting becomes much more interesting and rewarding even for basic resources. Imaging finding 80% concentrated iron when medium is like 30%. What about a mission where you need to find not only an ore deposit but a deposit with certain concentration? This kind of information would be valuable, I would buy it from other players. This is a real incentive and gameplay.
Same idea in space. Not every asteroid should be the same. Some regions could be rich in nickel, others in cobalt, platinum, uranium, etc. That would make exploration, logistics and trading much more meaningful.
And finally, if we can collect sand, dirt, rock or grass, we should also be able to place it back.
That would let us repair holes, flatten terrain, build landing pads, roads, ramps and all kinds of infrastructure in Survival without wasting hundreds of blocks.
4. Give us a cheap building material - concrete
Concrete could be added in many different ways.
The important part is giving us a cheap alternative to iron for building bases.
Environmental voxels could still contain traces of useful elements, but not as it is now where you can extract metals with hand drills from anywhere. You'd need proper industrial machines and lots of energy to extract anything useful from low-grade materials. And after playing a bit with env voxels, I still prefer finding iron nodes instead of drilling soil. It is in early game where you rely on smaller but more pure ore deposits and in late game you can afford energy hangry refining from low-concentrated materials.
Concrete would finally give environmental materials a real purpose. Add something like calcite to most rock like voxels.
5. Make power matter
Power should play a much bigger role in mining and production.
Building a proper power plant and keeping it fueled so your mining equipment and refineries can run at full capacity is exactly the kind of engineering progression I'd like to see.
Scaling up production should naturally mean scaling up power generation too.
Some general thoughts
Space mining will probably always be easier because of zero-G.
But operating in space should also require much more advanced tech:
So getting a large mining operation going in space should require a serious investment first.
Planets, on the other hand, should be the easier place to start the traditional mining/production path.
I say traditional because mining shouldn't be the only viable progression path. We should also have piracy, trading, scavenging, military/faction careers, etc. And you might have a good space progression following other paths.
Eventually you'll move a lot of production into space if you want to, but some resources should still stay planet-exclusive. At least by default. If someone wants everything in space, that's exactly what world settings are for.
Mining on planets should focus on gravity-related challenges while also giving real benefits.
The game should encourage different kinds of engineering instead of making one universal flying miner the answer to everything.
Early game could focus on mining rovers and delivery drones.
Later you move to huge mining rigs, tracked excavators, industrial bases, heavy cargo rovers or even cargo ships on water. Once you've refined your materials and reduced their mass and volume, flying transports start making sense again.
Players should get measurable advantages from building proper infrastructure instead of spending tons of PCU on something that performs worse than few simple universal grids.
Power should also become a limiting factor for large operations. Wind and solar are good for the starting. Nuclear reactors could become much more efficient (more energy from less fuel) when built near large bodies of water for cooling.
And why not have uranium on planets too? Make it very deep underground, very rare, and require advanced detectors and prospecting techniques to find.
The easier it is to mine and manufacture everything yourself, the less valuable resources become. And the more the game pushes everyone into the same and boring mining/production playstyle instead of encouraging alternatives.
Why bother attacking NPCs or other players for resources or technology if you can easily make everything yourself? And why would you protect anything or build any infrastructure in the first place? Here concrete again will pay a major role. Cheap, large concrete blocks are best for bases and defenses.
Getting access to a reliable supply of important resources should require planning, engineering and problem solving.
That kind of gameplay was achievable in original SE (with several mods). I'd love to see it expanded instead of simplified.
There are basically two mining environments: planets and space.
Mining in space is much easier because of zero-G.
Here are a few ideas that could make mining more interesting and give us more reasons to actually engineer stuff.
1. Huge deposits on planets
Planets should have some really huge ore deposits.
That would finally give us a reason to build proper mining equipment - heavy mining rovers, permanent mining rigs, processing outposts, cargo vehicles, etc.
Instead of flying around looking for another tiny vein and drilling thousands of holes everywhere, you could build actual mining infrastructure in rich regions with lots of resources. Or even on top on one giant resource vein.
2. Planet-only resources
Some rare resources should exist only on planets.
That way you can't just stay in zero-G forever and get everything you need. At some point you'll have to go down into gravity wells if you want certain advanced technologies.
Common resources like iron can still be easier to get in space. That makes sense since you'll need tons of it for building ships and stations. But maybe advanced weapons (and ammo) or some high-end components should require resources that only exist on planets.
3. Let us collect actual raw materials
Right now drills basically collect ingots straight from the ground. There isn't really a refining step anymore.
You can't collect sand as sand or rock as rock.
First, it breaks immersion. SE always had one of the best mining systems because you actually drilled the terrain instead of pointing a magic laser at it. Drills should collect raw material, not magically refine pure elements on the spot.
Second, collecting raw materials opens up a lot more gameplay.
Raw materials would naturally take up more cargo space, so mining logistics suddenly become a thing to worry about. Big mining rigs, processing plants, cargo rovers and dedicated infrastructure would all have an actual purpose.
Different raw materials could also have different concentrations of useful elements. Not every deposit would be equally good. Finding a really rich deposit would actually matter.
Add some better prospecting mechanics on top of that and ore hunting becomes much more interesting and rewarding even for basic resources. Imaging finding 80% concentrated iron when medium is like 30%. What about a mission where you need to find not only an ore deposit but a deposit with certain concentration? This kind of information would be valuable, I would buy it from other players. This is a real incentive and gameplay.
Same idea in space. Not every asteroid should be the same. Some regions could be rich in nickel, others in cobalt, platinum, uranium, etc. That would make exploration, logistics and trading much more meaningful.
And finally, if we can collect sand, dirt, rock or grass, we should also be able to place it back.
That would let us repair holes, flatten terrain, build landing pads, roads, ramps and all kinds of infrastructure in Survival without wasting hundreds of blocks.
4. Give us a cheap building material - concrete
Concrete could be added in many different ways.
The important part is giving us a cheap alternative to iron for building bases.
Environmental voxels could still contain traces of useful elements, but not as it is now where you can extract metals with hand drills from anywhere. You'd need proper industrial machines and lots of energy to extract anything useful from low-grade materials. And after playing a bit with env voxels, I still prefer finding iron nodes instead of drilling soil. It is in early game where you rely on smaller but more pure ore deposits and in late game you can afford energy hangry refining from low-concentrated materials.
Concrete would finally give environmental materials a real purpose. Add something like calcite to most rock like voxels.
5. Make power matter
Power should play a much bigger role in mining and production.
Building a proper power plant and keeping it fueled so your mining equipment and refineries can run at full capacity is exactly the kind of engineering progression I'd like to see.
Scaling up production should naturally mean scaling up power generation too.
Some general thoughts
Space mining will probably always be easier because of zero-G.
But operating in space should also require much more advanced tech:
So getting a large mining operation going in space should require a serious investment first.
Planets, on the other hand, should be the easier place to start the traditional mining/production path.
I say traditional because mining shouldn't be the only viable progression path. We should also have piracy, trading, scavenging, military/faction careers, etc. And you might have a good space progression following other paths.
Eventually you'll move a lot of production into space if you want to, but some resources should still stay planet-exclusive. At least by default. If someone wants everything in space, that's exactly what world settings are for.
Mining on planets should focus on gravity-related challenges while also giving real benefits.
The game should encourage different kinds of engineering instead of making one universal flying miner the answer to everything.
Early game could focus on mining rovers and delivery drones.
Later you move to huge mining rigs, tracked excavators, industrial bases, heavy cargo rovers or even cargo ships on water. Once you've refined your materials and reduced their mass and volume, flying transports start making sense again.
Players should get measurable advantages from building proper infrastructure instead of spending tons of PCU on something that performs worse than few simple universal grids.
Power should also become a limiting factor for large operations. Wind and solar are good for the starting. Nuclear reactors could become much more efficient (more energy from less fuel) when built near large bodies of water for cooling.
And why not have uranium on planets too? Make it very deep underground, very rare, and require advanced detectors and prospecting techniques to find.
The easier it is to mine and manufacture everything yourself, the less valuable resources become. And the more the game pushes everyone into the same and boring mining/production playstyle instead of encouraging alternatives.
Why bother attacking NPCs or other players for resources or technology if you can easily make everything yourself? And why would you protect anything or build any infrastructure in the first place? Here concrete again will pay a major role. Cheap, large concrete blocks are best for bases and defenses.
Getting access to a reliable supply of important resources should require planning, engineering and problem solving.
That kind of gameplay was achievable in original SE (with several mods). I'd love to see it expanded instead of simplified.
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