Push the tutorial to pre-crash
This was requested here: https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/53522-oversimplification so reposting comment to its own thread. (updated)
I know you guys (Keen) put a lot of time into the tutorial aspect of the start of the game with the cutscenes, voice acting and the like, but I think a solution to encouraging and teaching new players vs. empowering existing players to go create is sitting right in front of us.
Push the tutorial and early game challenges back in time to the trip to the Almagest system.
In this case, you create guided scenarios and walkthroughs and challenges (that may still be fun to do, perhaps a few random events so it's not always the same). A part's broken on the ship, you need to go out in space and mine a nearby asteroid and make a new part (teaching the production chain), you need to get fuel, take the mining shuttle and go harvest ice, etc, etc. As one commenter on a previous thread added, you're operating in an environment where you have access to a full production capacity, and can guide players through how to use them to overcome various challenges.
Along the way, these missions would provide the guidance and skills needed to teach the new player how to engineer in space. Solve a problem, go back into cryo sleep, perhaps get prompted with a choice to skip ahead to Almagest or more minigames, repeat. When you arrive and crash in Almagest, the training and hand holding should be over. You're in a crisis (the game) at this point and the handholding and freebies should stop. Dialogue between your space buddy and brother can guide you through your next goal, but at that point you have to figure out how to get that goal done on your own. (note, I would let you chose your space buddy during the tutorial, and make it a brother/sister combo, yes it doubles your voice acting, but also likely increases potential new player draw)
The point being that the game starts with a 'crisis' but currently everything is so oversimplified that it quickly feels like 'not much of a crisis' and in fact as it stands now your character even seems to forget it's a crisis as he single handedly goes off to colonize Almagest despite his injured brother and trapped cryo colonists on a potentially failing ship.
New players trying to figure things out can learn how to do that before the real crisis starts, so that figuring out how to solve the crisis actually feels like an accomplishment vs. just being walked through how to solve it.
The other advantage to this is that you can allow players to go through a tutorial and then decide how difficult they want their starting experience to be. What if I want to crash on Kemik, or one of the moons, or on Byblos, or wherever. If the tutorial is pre-crash then you can pick any spot to start, and only minor adjustments to the colony missions would be required (so you don't get the starter platform if you get to vallation later on instead of right away.
I like this feedback
when you crash in any of these places, you don't land right next to a mine with a bunch of resources and a ship, you don't get any free stuff, you're on your own to either find signals (which might have stuff you need) or harvest and build your own base
when you crash in any of these places, you don't land right next to a mine with a bunch of resources and a ship, you don't get any free stuff, you're on your own to either find signals (which might have stuff you need) or harvest and build your own base
The repeated pattern of long cryo sleeps and short waking periods could result in a degeneration of the engineers state of mind.
Cryo sickness stage 1> Hibernation Amnesia. The tutorial could be an orientation procedure designed to re-establish memory connections. This could give the medbay functionality by being the means by which memories are fixed and the engineers state of heath is determined.
I was thinking that during the tutorial phase on board the Calipso the ships automated systems could have in built safety feature to ensure that the revived engineers do not have Cryo sickness stage 2> Capacosis a form of madness usually caused by suffering under excessive micro-management. The ships safety feature will lock the use of tools and pilot seats until it is clear that the engineer is stable.
(In some cases the addition safety features will have the opposite effect and exacerbate the stage 2 condition. Catch 22.)
Cryo sickness stage 3> the belief that you are immersed in playing a sandbox video game set in space and all that matters is what you want to do.
Optional: it could be that there was a sinister covert plot to alter the minds of the colonists in cryo sleep. One that would attempt to 'reprogram' them to be more 'controllable'.
The repeated pattern of long cryo sleeps and short waking periods could result in a degeneration of the engineers state of mind.
Cryo sickness stage 1> Hibernation Amnesia. The tutorial could be an orientation procedure designed to re-establish memory connections. This could give the medbay functionality by being the means by which memories are fixed and the engineers state of heath is determined.
I was thinking that during the tutorial phase on board the Calipso the ships automated systems could have in built safety feature to ensure that the revived engineers do not have Cryo sickness stage 2> Capacosis a form of madness usually caused by suffering under excessive micro-management. The ships safety feature will lock the use of tools and pilot seats until it is clear that the engineer is stable.
(In some cases the addition safety features will have the opposite effect and exacerbate the stage 2 condition. Catch 22.)
Cryo sickness stage 3> the belief that you are immersed in playing a sandbox video game set in space and all that matters is what you want to do.
Optional: it could be that there was a sinister covert plot to alter the minds of the colonists in cryo sleep. One that would attempt to 'reprogram' them to be more 'controllable'.
An example, on the way to the destination, radio spectrometers detect a cluster of uranium 'asteroids'. The ship is stopping to refuel, and your space buddy is tasked to go locate the deposit and mark it. You need to build a radio antenna near the deposit with a battery and solar panels so that future missions can find them.
An example, on the way to the destination, radio spectrometers detect a cluster of uranium 'asteroids'. The ship is stopping to refuel, and your space buddy is tasked to go locate the deposit and mark it. You need to build a radio antenna near the deposit with a battery and solar panels so that future missions can find them.
The opening cut scene for survival states that there 10 stops along the journey. The first is after 1000 years of travel, presuming that the last is the disaster sequence. This will leave 9 episodes for tutorials to take place under your post's proposal, I would assume that with each step over the ages more systems on board the Calipso will begin to fail and will require maintenance during the journey.
The opening cut scene for survival states that there 10 stops along the journey. The first is after 1000 years of travel, presuming that the last is the disaster sequence. This will leave 9 episodes for tutorials to take place under your post's proposal, I would assume that with each step over the ages more systems on board the Calipso will begin to fail and will require maintenance during the journey.
Nice idea. I like separating the main game world with the tutorials. it solves many issues.
In Almagest, you would start Campaign or Sandbox.
The first one would have all the colonization steps as part of it, while the second one is meant for infinite replayability, where no specific progression or intended gameplay path is forced upon players and where players choose their own way to play using underlying sandbox mechanics and writing their own story.
Nice idea. I like separating the main game world with the tutorials. it solves many issues.
In Almagest, you would start Campaign or Sandbox.
The first one would have all the colonization steps as part of it, while the second one is meant for infinite replayability, where no specific progression or intended gameplay path is forced upon players and where players choose their own way to play using underlying sandbox mechanics and writing their own story.
Went through the new start once again and each time I'm more convinced that the handholding needs to move to pre-crash. We're just being gps marker guided step by step in what should be the first major milestone challenge you have as a player. You're handed a space ship, then you're handed a base, seemingly to teach you how to build stuff. A pre-crash tutorial will tell players how to build stuff. After the crash, your motivation should start with a) make sure you have reliable power (don't get me started on why your space buddy dies in a perfect earth-like environment when the suit battery dies and you can't at least take the suit off before death) and hopefully eventually food and water. b) go forage for ores (no waypoints), maybe build a base camp. c) go explore unknown signals or just build what you ned to get around on the planet or into space.
At the end of this, you should figure out how to locate the crashed ship and rescue the people there and then start your colonization for real.
Teach players how to do this in the refuel/repair stops on the way to almagest, maybe even randomize it a little to keep it interesting. Let us figure it out from there. If you're really desperate as a player, maybe you can call your brother to ask for a 'suggestion' what to do, he can make a smart a$$ comment and tell you what next step you should do in case you're completely lost, but it should be an 'ask for help', not auto-waypoints.
Went through the new start once again and each time I'm more convinced that the handholding needs to move to pre-crash. We're just being gps marker guided step by step in what should be the first major milestone challenge you have as a player. You're handed a space ship, then you're handed a base, seemingly to teach you how to build stuff. A pre-crash tutorial will tell players how to build stuff. After the crash, your motivation should start with a) make sure you have reliable power (don't get me started on why your space buddy dies in a perfect earth-like environment when the suit battery dies and you can't at least take the suit off before death) and hopefully eventually food and water. b) go forage for ores (no waypoints), maybe build a base camp. c) go explore unknown signals or just build what you ned to get around on the planet or into space.
At the end of this, you should figure out how to locate the crashed ship and rescue the people there and then start your colonization for real.
Teach players how to do this in the refuel/repair stops on the way to almagest, maybe even randomize it a little to keep it interesting. Let us figure it out from there. If you're really desperate as a player, maybe you can call your brother to ask for a 'suggestion' what to do, he can make a smart a$$ comment and tell you what next step you should do in case you're completely lost, but it should be an 'ask for help', not auto-waypoints.
Pre-crash starts!
Pre-crash starts!
Do you think that the colony mission to Almagest has been sabotaged?
Is there some sort of descent among the travellers?
I know that there are rebels, but I do not think that the Calipso's crash is their handy work, perhaps some other entity has motive and means.
Some hint of this hidden factions presence could be revealed during the tutorial.
Do you think that the colony mission to Almagest has been sabotaged?
Is there some sort of descent among the travellers?
I know that there are rebels, but I do not think that the Calipso's crash is their handy work, perhaps some other entity has motive and means.
Some hint of this hidden factions presence could be revealed during the tutorial.
Another example of the benefit here is that it can allow for the more classic parachute start, since it would no longer require you to automatically land in a specific spot to start the tutorial.
Please consider.
Another example of the benefit here is that it can allow for the more classic parachute start, since it would no longer require you to automatically land in a specific spot to start the tutorial.
Please consider.
Thank you for your feedback. It has been collected and passed on to the developers for discussion.
Cheers,
Arron CM
Thank you for your feedback. It has been collected and passed on to the developers for discussion.
Cheers,
Arron CM
I'm in my first steps in the new tutorial and it is orders of magnitude better than the original.
However, I still feel like it's a missed opportunity to not do the teaching parts of the intro (i.e. the tutorial) pre-crash during those ten stop to refuel and do maintenance. Ten mini-missions that lead up to the crash where you're doing all the various skills you need to become a full fledged space engineer.
The new tutorial is good (so far), stuff isn't handed as much to you as before. Still feels kind of hand-holdy though so far. I dunno, as a long time (10K+ hours) SE1 engineer I probably am thinking too much about how the very best part of the game was always that first 24-48 hours on planet (or in space) just trying to find enough resources to make it to the next day. Granted more recent updates to SE1 you get a buggy so instead of being tied to a randomly dropped escape pod trying to build enough to make it to the coordinates of the safe zone you get the GPS to, you can just drive there. It's been dumbed down a little too (sadly).
However, the tutorial so far is definitely an improvement, again it just feels like a missed chance since a pre-crash tutorial would also give you a chance to interact with your brother more and maybe understand why they don't get along as much anymore (or maybe they started out close and over 10k years on the ship it got more and more tense which would also be interesting story-wise).
I just hope that we actually end up now going back to find the crash because that's just weird as it is now where you ditch them.
I'm in my first steps in the new tutorial and it is orders of magnitude better than the original.
However, I still feel like it's a missed opportunity to not do the teaching parts of the intro (i.e. the tutorial) pre-crash during those ten stop to refuel and do maintenance. Ten mini-missions that lead up to the crash where you're doing all the various skills you need to become a full fledged space engineer.
The new tutorial is good (so far), stuff isn't handed as much to you as before. Still feels kind of hand-holdy though so far. I dunno, as a long time (10K+ hours) SE1 engineer I probably am thinking too much about how the very best part of the game was always that first 24-48 hours on planet (or in space) just trying to find enough resources to make it to the next day. Granted more recent updates to SE1 you get a buggy so instead of being tied to a randomly dropped escape pod trying to build enough to make it to the coordinates of the safe zone you get the GPS to, you can just drive there. It's been dumbed down a little too (sadly).
However, the tutorial so far is definitely an improvement, again it just feels like a missed chance since a pre-crash tutorial would also give you a chance to interact with your brother more and maybe understand why they don't get along as much anymore (or maybe they started out close and over 10k years on the ship it got more and more tense which would also be interesting story-wise).
I just hope that we actually end up now going back to find the crash because that's just weird as it is now where you ditch them.
100% agree. Leaving our brother up in a burning metal wreck pulled me right out of all immersion i had and demotivated me to continue. But also worth mentioning: In the roadmap, "Full Multiplayer, Storyline & Campaign" is written after VS3 water, so this is likely just a placeholder for now.
https://2.spaceengineersgame.com/roadmap-2/
100% agree. Leaving our brother up in a burning metal wreck pulled me right out of all immersion i had and demotivated me to continue. But also worth mentioning: In the roadmap, "Full Multiplayer, Storyline & Campaign" is written after VS3 water, so this is likely just a placeholder for now.
https://2.spaceengineersgame.com/roadmap-2/
I do agree that some parts of the tutorial should have just been in the stop along the way, not everything, just the parts needed to build/repair a small ship (welding tool), how to get minerals (use the drill), and how to scrap something.
If you have never played a game like this, not knowing that the "scrap" tool will return resources may make players hesitate to scrap things and not draw a connection between scrapping an item and the items it deconstructs to.
Likewise because the game doesn't let you just "remove a block" and save it in your inventory to move it, or move it to storage, there is hesitancy to break down items that aren't damaged.
If you happen to destroy the first ship you get on the planet, you'll be hiking/jetpacking quite far. It would be worthwhile having the player learn what parts are needed on a ship to make it able to fly and land.
I do agree that some parts of the tutorial should have just been in the stop along the way, not everything, just the parts needed to build/repair a small ship (welding tool), how to get minerals (use the drill), and how to scrap something.
If you have never played a game like this, not knowing that the "scrap" tool will return resources may make players hesitate to scrap things and not draw a connection between scrapping an item and the items it deconstructs to.
Likewise because the game doesn't let you just "remove a block" and save it in your inventory to move it, or move it to storage, there is hesitancy to break down items that aren't damaged.
If you happen to destroy the first ship you get on the planet, you'll be hiking/jetpacking quite far. It would be worthwhile having the player learn what parts are needed on a ship to make it able to fly and land.
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