Ingots weren't the problem for beginners, stone is needed.
Hello! Autistic Space Engineer here, who loves SE1 (3,002.1 Hrs logged on Steam). I would like to see you succeed in making SE2 even better, I'd love it if it was more accessible. Here's what I think might help:
* INGOTS: The production chain from ore to finished product makes no sense anymore, why is the large assembler named "refinery" if it doesn't "refine" anything? How did ingots add complication, and how does removing them simplify anything (IMO it doesn't)? The backpack building doesn't remove "the grocery list" of products needed to build it just makes it more confusing and disjointed from the basic understanding most Humans have about how metallic products are produced. Now instead of memorizing what ingots I need in my storage connected to my assembler, I must memorize what ore I need in my "backpack". It's also immersion breaking thinking about where does the life-support in the big box on my character's back go now, if its full of ore and smelting and assembling machinery? Want to simplify building? Then maybe start with build-planner functionality and ease of use? Maybe have a ChatGPT (or "GoodAI") style element that guides the player through a build? IMO, if people are held back by ingots being in the game, then removing them isn't going to help anyone, just confuse them even more. Satisfacorty and Factorio show that complex production chains can be a popular gaming element for a broad audience. I'd love to have conveyor belts of shiny ingots and parts going all over my ships.
* STONE- Why we need it. As mentioned above having a full inventory you need to empty is not a negative to gaming enjoyment on its own. Just look at Satisfacorty's inventory management. Stone gave us the ability to build anywhere and make use of the digging byproduct. Yes, most engineers just dumped it to clear space (I built more cargo, but that's me) but there was some fun to doing that and engineering the piping and thinking out the logistics. That added purpose and depth, now its gone as it sits. I can't build anywhere now. Concrete, along with basic metals, in stone should also be added for large amounts of cheap, durable, and low detail (low-poly) building material. Reshaping voxels instead of just removing/replacing them would also be nice, for roads and tunnels like Valhiem. Also, where does the dirt go when I mine it? Vapor? Checkout "Gold Mining Simulator" and how they do dirt, it can be fun. Both boys and girls like playing in the dirt in a sandbox, there are many earthmover simulators out there, SE1 is close to pulling those gamers in as well. More "liquid-like" dirt would be fun to play with using scoops, would it be so different from water? If voxel memory is still a major constraint, then give us late-game energy-to-matter converters to restrict digging amounts naturally.
* Accessible: There's still nothing my wife, or another friend, would find interesting if they don't already want to engineer and build complex machines that work. For girls to be interested we'd need more decoration and a way to share it, complex cooking, farming, livestock, pets, children and others with needs to be taken care of with happy-meters, romance or other similar game-play elements. Think Palia and World of Warcraft, and the direction they went with nesting gameplay. Not being sexist, but we just naturally have different interests. For guys not interested in building complex working machines, we'd need more decoration, pets, livestock, farming, more piloting and combat elements, maybe security gameplay and base-raids, and better multi-crew integration. I need a wing-man to feel useful not tacked on, but not impossible to play without one. Work the bugs out of multi-crew ship seats, make turrets easier to control with more data on the targets and locking and jamming systems for depth. Think about "Ark: Survival Evolved" and "7Days to Die" and others with base building and PVE elements. Also adding robots/AI-crew that we build by mixing and matching components to help us run our builds would be a great addon and a flex for GoodAI. Also for those not interested in building and engineering you're going to need a way to get pre-fab ships that can be bought and easily flown. Modular ship-building seems more accessible to a larger audience, like in Starfield and now No-Mans-Sky. Maybe stations and planets could have modular shipyards, while making module blueprint building easier for those who like to engineer?
*Tech-level: The technology of Space Engineers lore isn't very far ahead of current day tech, just a little tiny bit ahead. It's kind of luke-warm, I'd like it better if it went more future oriented like Star Trek or Star Wars, or if it went the other way, and it went more current day space (space-X) simulator. Like in combat I'd like it if it went more current day Naval style where radar and locking-on and physical missile/torpedo defense are key, or if it was the other way and went full sci-fi with cloaking and shields and more power generation related to energy weapon power. I'd probably enjoy Sci-Fi Engineers more, but NASA/Space-X Engineers could also be good. The current lore of tech level isn't bad, it's just not a plus, it's like "Bethesda Jank" it's slightly endearing to me.
*DLC/Games-as-a-service/MMO: Please don't do it much. At least don't make it needed for new players, or to make new players feel they need it to continue. The current DLC system makes it hard to build vanilla blueprints anyone can use with any or no DLC. New areas on the map would be a good way to do DLC, the suit skins are OK and not a gate to new players. Official subscription based unique servers with unique rules and themes would be worth paying for if done right. The current SE1 DLC model is a turn off for new players in my experience, and I don't feel like I can recommend it to new players.
Sorry for the novel, I just think a lot about Space Engineers, and what I'd like from it, and what I think others would like from it, and how much I really do enjoy it and want to share it with others. If you're reading this Thank You, and my apologies.
I like this feedback
I agree with you, mostly.
I agree with you, mostly.
For the record, I'm a cis-woman and I have absolutely zero interest in cooking, farming, livestock, children, romance, etc. being added to the game. And I can already build my own pet robot if I ever find I have the urge for that. You know what I do want? A female avatar whose spacesuit doesn't look painted-on, the way it does in SE1.
For the record, I'm a cis-woman and I have absolutely zero interest in cooking, farming, livestock, children, romance, etc. being added to the game. And I can already build my own pet robot if I ever find I have the urge for that. You know what I do want? A female avatar whose spacesuit doesn't look painted-on, the way it does in SE1.
TL:DR Personally I disagree with every point of this suggestion. Wish there was a way to down vote to show relative interest for feedback suggestions.
INGOTS - having them as a logistical step adds nothing to the actual game play. Not having them removes nothing from the gameplay. Especially now with multi level component production there is still sufficient complexity. I think the bigger production issues are centered around balance, especially of back pack building.
STONE - the removal of stone and focus on ores is one of the best changes in SE2. Being able to satisfy all basic construction needs with one resource was a misstep in SE1. The initial game start of stone to ingots was slow and pointlessly mind numbing. Back pack building is the right choice but it needs proper balance, currently it is too efficient, too fast, and too powerful.
If stone is added it should be for concrete to allow bases to be made of a common material that is real world accurate.
ACCESSIBILITY - Its true that those not interested in this type of game will not play this game no matter what. It doesn't need to cater to them, that is fine. However, more people interested in this type of game will play if the basics are taught better and there is a tighter game play loop available for those that like the game mechanics but don't love the the undirected, no external goals style of SE1.
Also it has nothing to do with catering to gender norms. There are plenty of women that enjoy engineering challenges and problem solving like this, sure not as many as men but that is not relevant to the games development.
TECH - 100% Hard pass on upping the tech level. SEs near future industrial and very physical tech is one of the primary things that makes it unique in feel and function.
DLC/MONETIZATION - The current low price DLC model of adding cosmetic blocks, not gameplay features, is the most balanced way I've ever seen a game monetized beyond initial sale. No one loses any of the core game. Please do not change this. Especially hate the idea of buying sectors as we all know that will limit progression and world experience.
TL:DR Personally I disagree with every point of this suggestion. Wish there was a way to down vote to show relative interest for feedback suggestions.
INGOTS - having them as a logistical step adds nothing to the actual game play. Not having them removes nothing from the gameplay. Especially now with multi level component production there is still sufficient complexity. I think the bigger production issues are centered around balance, especially of back pack building.
STONE - the removal of stone and focus on ores is one of the best changes in SE2. Being able to satisfy all basic construction needs with one resource was a misstep in SE1. The initial game start of stone to ingots was slow and pointlessly mind numbing. Back pack building is the right choice but it needs proper balance, currently it is too efficient, too fast, and too powerful.
If stone is added it should be for concrete to allow bases to be made of a common material that is real world accurate.
ACCESSIBILITY - Its true that those not interested in this type of game will not play this game no matter what. It doesn't need to cater to them, that is fine. However, more people interested in this type of game will play if the basics are taught better and there is a tighter game play loop available for those that like the game mechanics but don't love the the undirected, no external goals style of SE1.
Also it has nothing to do with catering to gender norms. There are plenty of women that enjoy engineering challenges and problem solving like this, sure not as many as men but that is not relevant to the games development.
TECH - 100% Hard pass on upping the tech level. SEs near future industrial and very physical tech is one of the primary things that makes it unique in feel and function.
DLC/MONETIZATION - The current low price DLC model of adding cosmetic blocks, not gameplay features, is the most balanced way I've ever seen a game monetized beyond initial sale. No one loses any of the core game. Please do not change this. Especially hate the idea of buying sectors as we all know that will limit progression and world experience.
I agree with you, mostly.
I agree with you, mostly.
Production chains are not final yet, and many things can still change. At this moment, we've mostly been given a preview of basic survival features with a major focus on hand mining and backpack building.
But I do agree that having "ingots" for basic materials like iron or silicon is very much underappreciated.
If you do not have those, you are basically forced to stockpile and transport raw ore everywhere for maximum flexibility. And no, steel tubes are not "ingots", they are not universal first stage refined materials you can use for anything. As for now, there is not even a way to recycle components.
Ingots are also way better for trade than ore or components, for being found as loot in encounters, for any logistics where you or your faction have more than one base and for many other simple things like wealth accumulation and show off.
Consider even the backpack building. Instead of micromanaging components, I would prefer smelting iron ingots and carrying more of the "condensed ore" with me for that basic staff to weld. It can also introduce more balance to the game, as you will use less energy in your backpack and be willing to actually progress by building the smelter. And it is way more accessible too.
Production chains are not final yet, and many things can still change. At this moment, we've mostly been given a preview of basic survival features with a major focus on hand mining and backpack building.
But I do agree that having "ingots" for basic materials like iron or silicon is very much underappreciated.
If you do not have those, you are basically forced to stockpile and transport raw ore everywhere for maximum flexibility. And no, steel tubes are not "ingots", they are not universal first stage refined materials you can use for anything. As for now, there is not even a way to recycle components.
Ingots are also way better for trade than ore or components, for being found as loot in encounters, for any logistics where you or your faction have more than one base and for many other simple things like wealth accumulation and show off.
Consider even the backpack building. Instead of micromanaging components, I would prefer smelting iron ingots and carrying more of the "condensed ore" with me for that basic staff to weld. It can also introduce more balance to the game, as you will use less energy in your backpack and be willing to actually progress by building the smelter. And it is way more accessible too.
Regarding tech level: As per my understanding of the intro they were traveling for 10000 years with all crew hibernated except moments when they stopped and woke up for refueling. So for the colonists the technology did not progress during that time at all.
Regarding tech level: As per my understanding of the intro they were traveling for 10000 years with all crew hibernated except moments when they stopped and woke up for refueling. So for the colonists the technology did not progress during that time at all.
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