Progression/Block Unlocking in Survival
Not Enough Votes
I think the devs could plan to add tech unlocking through exploration + story simultaneously.
- You can unlock the same hydrogen thruster through both methods in a single game mode.
- This allows for a multi-dimensional approach to unlocking tech that would suit more than one play style.
- If you unlock the hydrogen thruster through exploration, then the story would no longer give the tech, but it could still give other rewards which might be valuable in multiple ways especially if there is an economy system later on.
As well the devs could also include the the ability to turn off progression in the same game mode, (meaning all blocks are unlocked) but allow you to do the story if you want as side missions (again for those other rewards). This option can also be presented as an entirely separate game mode.
Exploration options for unlocking tech:
- Farming a resource from a plant/animal.
- Coming across a data pad on a mission or during an encounter.
- Scanning tech you find/see during encounters, abandoned bases, crashed ship sites.
- Raiding pirate faction ships for tech unlocks.
- Building tech on missions or encounters (thus you learned how to construct the tech).
- Mining the appropriate ore/resource for tech unlocks.
I like this feedback You can't vote. Please authorize!
You can't vote. Please authorize!
Just think when more content is in the game you could be exploring worlds for different reasons. Farming? Lore? Getting a mineral under water, to upgrade suit or jetpack etc. And as you do this you could stumble on ways to unlock technology allowing you to do multiple things at once while making exploration more valuable.
Just think when more content is in the game you could be exploring worlds for different reasons. Farming? Lore? Getting a mineral under water, to upgrade suit or jetpack etc. And as you do this you could stumble on ways to unlock technology allowing you to do multiple things at once while making exploration more valuable.
Yes! Unlocks could come via some type of XP system so that hitting unknown signals, doing side quests, hitting trade stations, destroying enemy NPCs, or main story can all build XP to unlock the blocks.
Not relevant really for VS2 since we only have contracts... but going forward a worthwhile consideration.
Yes! Unlocks could come via some type of XP system so that hitting unknown signals, doing side quests, hitting trade stations, destroying enemy NPCs, or main story can all build XP to unlock the blocks.
Not relevant really for VS2 since we only have contracts... but going forward a worthwhile consideration.
"Right now we only have one 'faction', the overarching colonization one. Keen has released ideas for others, and I am assuming with this post that they will be in conflict with each other, and you the player has the ability to join different ones and work towards their goals via Contracts.
That is the main point, a different type of progression for factions and blocks. Contracts for factions, and something else for general blocks."
-From a thread I made on a progression proposal, it got like one vote lol
Your ideas are nice, the only thing that might be a problem for players is that point 2 and 3 rely on wandering around waiting for random spawns, to unlock blocks. If the current -linear- unlocking system is used, you as the player could get stuck and frustrated waiting for what you need to spawn in?
Your 6 general ideas actually fall into 3 different types of progression systems, if you take a step back and think on SE2's planned systems as a gameplay loop:
Points 1 & 6 --- Your default block progression system, you can plan ahead for it (Skyrim crafting)
Points 2 & 3 --- Your random loot drops, or unique things (Skyrim side quests)
Points 4 & 5 --- Your faction rewards for completing their posted contracts, cool faction loot at higher tiers of completion (Skyrim faction quest rewards and advancements)
...if they separate the two. If they keep one progression system for everything, your points could still work pretty well with non-block progression unlocks, i.e. loot.
"Right now we only have one 'faction', the overarching colonization one. Keen has released ideas for others, and I am assuming with this post that they will be in conflict with each other, and you the player has the ability to join different ones and work towards their goals via Contracts.
That is the main point, a different type of progression for factions and blocks. Contracts for factions, and something else for general blocks."
-From a thread I made on a progression proposal, it got like one vote lol
Your ideas are nice, the only thing that might be a problem for players is that point 2 and 3 rely on wandering around waiting for random spawns, to unlock blocks. If the current -linear- unlocking system is used, you as the player could get stuck and frustrated waiting for what you need to spawn in?
Your 6 general ideas actually fall into 3 different types of progression systems, if you take a step back and think on SE2's planned systems as a gameplay loop:
Points 1 & 6 --- Your default block progression system, you can plan ahead for it (Skyrim crafting)
Points 2 & 3 --- Your random loot drops, or unique things (Skyrim side quests)
Points 4 & 5 --- Your faction rewards for completing their posted contracts, cool faction loot at higher tiers of completion (Skyrim faction quest rewards and advancements)
...if they separate the two. If they keep one progression system for everything, your points could still work pretty well with non-block progression unlocks, i.e. loot.
Woops, forgot to add the 'association' indexed to the 'analogy' in Skyrim.
SE2 'block' progression, SE2 'loot' progression, and SE2 'colonization' progression systems, respectively, on the 3 different examples of emergent gameplay.
Woops, forgot to add the 'association' indexed to the 'analogy' in Skyrim.
SE2 'block' progression, SE2 'loot' progression, and SE2 'colonization' progression systems, respectively, on the 3 different examples of emergent gameplay.
You could expand the progression system to be more generic, so that it supports both the story-line mode and free survival play, while still being simple. Similar to what Diggrok suggested above, make it a point system, but have a research tree where the player can choose how he progresses.
Then it would simply go so, that you get "research points" from suitable sources, which the player accumulates, and can then spend to unlock the nodes in the research tree. "Suitable sources" could depend on the game mode or it could be the same for all. Depends on what they are and how we want it to actually work. An example list of things that could give research points:
- Completing story missions. These could be a significant amount so that if you choose to play the story mode, you have a clear incentive to prefer the missions.
- Loot from encounters. More difficult and/or rarer ones would give larger amounts while easy/common ones give a smaller amount.
- Non-story missions could give research points as reward. Could even be tied to the mission type and its flavor description e.g. "recover cargo containing valuable information", "explore strange anomaly", "salvage high-tech block from wreck" etc.
- Own research. Finding new resource types the first time could award research points. Assuming there will be animals/monsters at some point, encountering one type the first time could give points. Building a new block the first time could give points.
Of course, to make the research tree work appropriately in a game where the resources available to the player and his power are constantly growing, the research costs should increase as you progress through the research tree.
Basing the unlocking of blocks on accumulating points, gives the devs and modders the freedom to decide which accomplishments generate points. By giving the player the choice on how he spends those points, gives him the freedom to proceed through the research tree on a path he likes the most.
You could expand the progression system to be more generic, so that it supports both the story-line mode and free survival play, while still being simple. Similar to what Diggrok suggested above, make it a point system, but have a research tree where the player can choose how he progresses.
Then it would simply go so, that you get "research points" from suitable sources, which the player accumulates, and can then spend to unlock the nodes in the research tree. "Suitable sources" could depend on the game mode or it could be the same for all. Depends on what they are and how we want it to actually work. An example list of things that could give research points:
- Completing story missions. These could be a significant amount so that if you choose to play the story mode, you have a clear incentive to prefer the missions.
- Loot from encounters. More difficult and/or rarer ones would give larger amounts while easy/common ones give a smaller amount.
- Non-story missions could give research points as reward. Could even be tied to the mission type and its flavor description e.g. "recover cargo containing valuable information", "explore strange anomaly", "salvage high-tech block from wreck" etc.
- Own research. Finding new resource types the first time could award research points. Assuming there will be animals/monsters at some point, encountering one type the first time could give points. Building a new block the first time could give points.
Of course, to make the research tree work appropriately in a game where the resources available to the player and his power are constantly growing, the research costs should increase as you progress through the research tree.
Basing the unlocking of blocks on accumulating points, gives the devs and modders the freedom to decide which accomplishments generate points. By giving the player the choice on how he spends those points, gives him the freedom to proceed through the research tree on a path he likes the most.
I like the idea of a research block, where you can add data to it to advance/boost it's progress. The data you would earn as mentioned, but the block could have worked some of this out on its own given enough time.
Should the more advanced components themselves require research too?
I like the idea of a research block, where you can add data to it to advance/boost it's progress. The data you would earn as mentioned, but the block could have worked some of this out on its own given enough time.
Should the more advanced components themselves require research too?
I'll drop just few concepts from my technology progression mod to SE1 (running on my server if anyone is interested to test in practice). Everything can be done already in SE1 engine.
1. There are two additional types of items added:
- Documentation Datapad ("blueprint orginal" for those who know EVE Online) - which allows to build unlimited number of blocks or enhanced components
- Schematics Chip ("blueprint copy") - which allows to build single block or enhanced component (but is recoverable by grinding or disasembly)
Schematics Chips can be crafted from documentation datapads in new Research Lab block.
2. General rules
a) vanilla blocks are available without restrictions so everyone who knows vanilla mechanics can just play as they used to
b) server admins can lock or limit access to specific blocks by limiting access to schematics/documentation - reduces need for block limiter plugins and makes documentation valuable item,
c) enhanced blocks are built with use of enhanced components which are crafted from vanilla components with use of documentation (unlimited number)/schematics (consumed for build) in block "Modification Station" (inspired by Subnautica)
d) unique components which require unique input materials are built in Enhanced Asssembler which can also craft enhanced components directly (skip crafting vanilla block and then modify it)
3. Research process
a) players can research materials in Research Lab blocks which costs no material but only energy, time and no-interruption (1 unit of research material = 1 hour), for example player can research "Electronics" material
b) researched materials can be then converted to Documentation Datapad of specific discipline for example "Electronics I" (similar to "skill" in EVE Online but just physical item not bound to any character so transferrable) which requires Datapad and 4 x Electronics = 4 hours of passive research,
c) that continues with each level of documentation requiring more time - for example "Electronics II" requires Electronics I and 20 hours of research materials = 24 hours required and so on,
d) research time can be reduced by acquiring research materials in other ways than just waiting: activity in game, exploration, looting, fighting, trading with NPCs or other players, admin events etc.
e) documentation is unique and valuable, once it is gone it needs to be researched again,
f) to research documentation of enhanced component or schematics for blocks players need various input materials - sometimes just typical components, ores or ingots, sometimes something unique which exists only in specific place - for example "Scoped Detector Documentation" component requires just 10 detectors, Spectrometry I and Electronics I which means players can research them in 8 hours (or 4 if they use 2 research labs in parallel),
g) on my server there is "red dwarf" star system accessible through Nexus wormhole, regular solar panels have limited efficiency and dedicated Infrared Solar Panels are needed there (which have reduced efficiency in standard sun light) which require Infrared Solar Cells. To research Infrared Solar Cells players need to collect unique items like datapad with scan of star's spectrum (requires travel to this star system) and some unique ingots which are produced as trace byproduct of vanilla ores),
they don't have to do it themselves, if other players like exploration they can sell their findings or run production and sell ready Infrared Solar Cells,
g) enhanced components are used to build enhanced blocks for example Scoped Detector is used by blocks with extender range compared to vanilla (for example Scoped Ore Detector), we can have Scoped Gatling Turret, Scoped Custom Controller just by quick mod of SBC parameters and replace of components recipe.
Another example Computer => Overclocked Computer allows to build faster blocks like assemblers, refineries etc.
4. Active gameplay progress
Enhanced Assembler and Enhanced Refinery produce very small quantities of research materials as they operate. For example assembling Steel Plates produces "Metallurgy" research material, processing Iron Ore produces "Iron Processing" research material etc. which speeds up research of documentation, instead of passive waiting players who do active industry can progress quicker in areas of their expertise.
Combat players can progress quicker by looting research materials or documentation wrecks their create. In future I want to add collecting research materials by other activities too like piloting the ship (accumulates research material in cockpit), or shooting ammo.
Exploration players can find research materials in abandoned outputs or wrecks. Traders can buy and sell them from other players (or NPCs).
Everything is using vanilla block models (I'm software developer with 0 skills in 3D modeling), but there are not many blocks involved because all magic is in components, blueprints and custom assembler definitions.
Also there is no coding needed to just add more content because everything is created by adding SBC definitions and image files.
Everything is compatible with existing inventory and assembler management scripts, store blocks etc. because these are just regular items with different names, icons and stats.
There is a lot more already (after just few months of solo development) for example reverse engineering through salvaged unique components etc. but I don't want to go really deep into details here just outline the general concept.
For example we have "scrapyard" location on the server where all wrecks are transported by cleanup instead of being simply despawned. Wrecks are depowered, assigned to Nobody and everyone can go there and grind what they need.
If they happen to find unique "cheating" blocks from MES NPCs (for example "Proprietary Ion Thrusters" which can fly in atmosphere) they can grind them for non-working "Salvaged Proprietary Ion Thrusters" items (so players can't build NPC thrusters), but this can be used in "Sample Analyzer" block to gain access to some unique research materials leading to development of own Ion Thrusters which can work in atmosphere. Players who prefer to fight PVE can go to MES sector and kill NPCs for same result - access to these unique technologies.
The development of new content is really fast because framework is stable and all is needed is to create more and more SBC definitions of components and blueprints. It is easy to include components in recipes of blocks from other mods so on my server non-essentials they are like "DLC" and their schematics need to be bought from admin faction to create money sink.
But then players can transfer that schematics between them, steal, fight, trade whatever they like.
Core new blocks used by my technology progression?
- Research Lab (modded assembler which looks like lab equipment)
- Basic Modification Station (basic assembler for slow production of enhanced components from documentation),
- Modification Station (regular assembler for mass production of enhanced components from schematics)
- Sample Analyzer (modded refinery which looks like lab equipment) which can take any unknown item and convert to something useful
Core items:
- Documentation Datapad (physical item - datapad)
- Schematics Chip (component)
- Research Material (ingot used for crafting Documentation)
- Salvaged Component (ingot - so it can be mass processed by refinery for just materials or Sample Analyzer for careful examination)
I'll drop just few concepts from my technology progression mod to SE1 (running on my server if anyone is interested to test in practice). Everything can be done already in SE1 engine.
1. There are two additional types of items added:
- Documentation Datapad ("blueprint orginal" for those who know EVE Online) - which allows to build unlimited number of blocks or enhanced components
- Schematics Chip ("blueprint copy") - which allows to build single block or enhanced component (but is recoverable by grinding or disasembly)
Schematics Chips can be crafted from documentation datapads in new Research Lab block.
2. General rules
a) vanilla blocks are available without restrictions so everyone who knows vanilla mechanics can just play as they used to
b) server admins can lock or limit access to specific blocks by limiting access to schematics/documentation - reduces need for block limiter plugins and makes documentation valuable item,
c) enhanced blocks are built with use of enhanced components which are crafted from vanilla components with use of documentation (unlimited number)/schematics (consumed for build) in block "Modification Station" (inspired by Subnautica)
d) unique components which require unique input materials are built in Enhanced Asssembler which can also craft enhanced components directly (skip crafting vanilla block and then modify it)
3. Research process
a) players can research materials in Research Lab blocks which costs no material but only energy, time and no-interruption (1 unit of research material = 1 hour), for example player can research "Electronics" material
b) researched materials can be then converted to Documentation Datapad of specific discipline for example "Electronics I" (similar to "skill" in EVE Online but just physical item not bound to any character so transferrable) which requires Datapad and 4 x Electronics = 4 hours of passive research,
c) that continues with each level of documentation requiring more time - for example "Electronics II" requires Electronics I and 20 hours of research materials = 24 hours required and so on,
d) research time can be reduced by acquiring research materials in other ways than just waiting: activity in game, exploration, looting, fighting, trading with NPCs or other players, admin events etc.
e) documentation is unique and valuable, once it is gone it needs to be researched again,
f) to research documentation of enhanced component or schematics for blocks players need various input materials - sometimes just typical components, ores or ingots, sometimes something unique which exists only in specific place - for example "Scoped Detector Documentation" component requires just 10 detectors, Spectrometry I and Electronics I which means players can research them in 8 hours (or 4 if they use 2 research labs in parallel),
g) on my server there is "red dwarf" star system accessible through Nexus wormhole, regular solar panels have limited efficiency and dedicated Infrared Solar Panels are needed there (which have reduced efficiency in standard sun light) which require Infrared Solar Cells. To research Infrared Solar Cells players need to collect unique items like datapad with scan of star's spectrum (requires travel to this star system) and some unique ingots which are produced as trace byproduct of vanilla ores),
they don't have to do it themselves, if other players like exploration they can sell their findings or run production and sell ready Infrared Solar Cells,
g) enhanced components are used to build enhanced blocks for example Scoped Detector is used by blocks with extender range compared to vanilla (for example Scoped Ore Detector), we can have Scoped Gatling Turret, Scoped Custom Controller just by quick mod of SBC parameters and replace of components recipe.
Another example Computer => Overclocked Computer allows to build faster blocks like assemblers, refineries etc.
4. Active gameplay progress
Enhanced Assembler and Enhanced Refinery produce very small quantities of research materials as they operate. For example assembling Steel Plates produces "Metallurgy" research material, processing Iron Ore produces "Iron Processing" research material etc. which speeds up research of documentation, instead of passive waiting players who do active industry can progress quicker in areas of their expertise.
Combat players can progress quicker by looting research materials or documentation wrecks their create. In future I want to add collecting research materials by other activities too like piloting the ship (accumulates research material in cockpit), or shooting ammo.
Exploration players can find research materials in abandoned outputs or wrecks. Traders can buy and sell them from other players (or NPCs).
Everything is using vanilla block models (I'm software developer with 0 skills in 3D modeling), but there are not many blocks involved because all magic is in components, blueprints and custom assembler definitions.
Also there is no coding needed to just add more content because everything is created by adding SBC definitions and image files.
Everything is compatible with existing inventory and assembler management scripts, store blocks etc. because these are just regular items with different names, icons and stats.
There is a lot more already (after just few months of solo development) for example reverse engineering through salvaged unique components etc. but I don't want to go really deep into details here just outline the general concept.
For example we have "scrapyard" location on the server where all wrecks are transported by cleanup instead of being simply despawned. Wrecks are depowered, assigned to Nobody and everyone can go there and grind what they need.
If they happen to find unique "cheating" blocks from MES NPCs (for example "Proprietary Ion Thrusters" which can fly in atmosphere) they can grind them for non-working "Salvaged Proprietary Ion Thrusters" items (so players can't build NPC thrusters), but this can be used in "Sample Analyzer" block to gain access to some unique research materials leading to development of own Ion Thrusters which can work in atmosphere. Players who prefer to fight PVE can go to MES sector and kill NPCs for same result - access to these unique technologies.
The development of new content is really fast because framework is stable and all is needed is to create more and more SBC definitions of components and blueprints. It is easy to include components in recipes of blocks from other mods so on my server non-essentials they are like "DLC" and their schematics need to be bought from admin faction to create money sink.
But then players can transfer that schematics between them, steal, fight, trade whatever they like.
Core new blocks used by my technology progression?
- Research Lab (modded assembler which looks like lab equipment)
- Basic Modification Station (basic assembler for slow production of enhanced components from documentation),
- Modification Station (regular assembler for mass production of enhanced components from schematics)
- Sample Analyzer (modded refinery which looks like lab equipment) which can take any unknown item and convert to something useful
Core items:
- Documentation Datapad (physical item - datapad)
- Schematics Chip (component)
- Research Material (ingot used for crafting Documentation)
- Salvaged Component (ingot - so it can be mass processed by refinery for just materials or Sample Analyzer for careful examination)
Replies have been locked on this page!