Bring back stone - Here's how (+Wood)
Please bring back stone!
As it currently stands, stone is just too abundant to be ignored and currently leaves the planet feeling mostly useless, with the exception of small ore deposits. Having stone be useful could make the whole planet feel useable, and would offer additional options for engineering and resource collection.
--Intro--
Stone should be implemented as a less efficient ore for gathering small amounts of basic resources such as iron, nickel, and silicon (similar to SE1). This would open up more in-depth mining opportunities such as large stone quarries for mass (but less efficient) gathering of resources without having to hop between a million small ore deposit mines, which usually end up being an eye-sore on the planet surface. Currently there is no justifiable reason to spend the time or resources to build infrastructure on a small fixed ore deposit mine, so having a larger stone mining operation could present fun engineering goals and challenges as we build infrastructure to make it feasible to mine at a larger scale.
The main challenge with how stone was implemented in SE1 was an issue of what to do with all of it once you have progressed past early-game reliance on it. The rate at which stone is gathered could be altered from how it is in SE1, where often it feels like you have way too much of it. Changing the drop rate in combination with having more uses for it, would prevent it from needlessly filling our inventories.
I will now propose 2 primary ways in which stone could be usefully implemented into SE2, to allow it to be helpful and to also avoid the pitfalls of it's SE1 implementation.
-- Concrete Blocks--
Once gathered, stone should be able to be broken down into small amounts of basic resources as well as "concrete", just like in SE1 -- This would work well with an ingot system which I also think should be reimplemented from SE1.
The recipe for these blocks would be simple. Concrete (a stone by-product) + a small amount of iron (obtainable from refining stone, to represent rebar) = Concrete blocks
Using concrete as a building material would be great for large planetary structures, as well as reducing player dependency on iron when first building infrastructure. They could also find use anywhere you need extra mass without using metal, such as the ballast of a watercraft. Of course the tradeoff is that it would be less durable than armour blocks, but they would be crafted from more abundant resources.
It would be great (though not as important) to see these mechanics incorporated into other things such as wood. I can imagine harvesting wood from trees for use in wood flooring etc. Wood blocks would also have different weight/durability stats. Due to the relative rarity of wood compared to other resources in the solar system, it could be an influential commodity in the SE2 economy once multiplayer arrives. I would prefer this system of separate material blocks compared to re-skinning the armour blocks (like in SE1) when it comes to these materials (concrete and wood).
-- Terraforming --
Beyond use in concrete blocks, stone could also be implemented into some sort of survival-friendly voxel hand tool for the purposes of filling in unsightly voxel damage and doing light terraforming (leveling an area, building roads etc.) This would allow us to better incorporate our environment into the gameplay, and would also increase our ability to influence the aesthetics of the world around us.
--Conclusion--
I think there is so much potential for stone to act as the cornerstone of the crafting system, filling the role of a dependable way to gather resources without having to have multiple mines. Especially if implemented into the game as I described in this post, I believe it would create additional engineering opportunities as well as make the world more interactive and usable.
I hope to see this game become all that it could be with the support of a great community and the fantastic dev team at KSH!
Thank You!!
I like this feedback
agreed! having to mange waste rock can be a good early game challange if done right and being rewared with some resouses for doing it right can be good. I would go make it if possable stone had diffrence trace resoseses depedning on the planet or not planet it is on.
agreed! having to mange waste rock can be a good early game challange if done right and being rewared with some resouses for doing it right can be good. I would go make it if possable stone had diffrence trace resoseses depedning on the planet or not planet it is on.
I finally took some time to put together my own comprehensive feedback on mining and production.
It’s a long read, but I tried to incorporate many of the great ideas from this and other similar suggestions.
Here it is:
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/51461-mining-and-production-current-issues-and-potential
I finally took some time to put together my own comprehensive feedback on mining and production.
It’s a long read, but I tried to incorporate many of the great ideas from this and other similar suggestions.
Here it is:
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/51461-mining-and-production-current-issues-and-potential
Yeah, I definitely agree that not including stone as something at least somewhat useful is not great.
Yeah, I definitely agree that not including stone as something at least somewhat useful is not great.
Infinite stone equals infinite trace ores which equals crashed economies? Maybe -only- gravel for concrete?
Infinite stone equals infinite trace ores which equals crashed economies? Maybe -only- gravel for concrete?
As just a vote. I'm happy not to have stone and have to set up a Sorter to a connector to dump stone on all my mining rigs. Stone makes waste in the form of gravel. I'm happy not to have it in SE2... It's highly unnecessary. There's a concrete skin in SE1 that likely could come to SE2. Done. Then I don't have to deal with a cement mixer setup and a pour spout or figuring out how a welder can weld concrete.
As a mod? could be fun to have to build forms and pour it like water but it hardens after a set amt of time. Could be a fun gameplay but that's just play...
Just my 2 cents. 100% sincere in saying "thanks for sharing." Keep building fun stuff, Engineers!
As just a vote. I'm happy not to have stone and have to set up a Sorter to a connector to dump stone on all my mining rigs. Stone makes waste in the form of gravel. I'm happy not to have it in SE2... It's highly unnecessary. There's a concrete skin in SE1 that likely could come to SE2. Done. Then I don't have to deal with a cement mixer setup and a pour spout or figuring out how a welder can weld concrete.
As a mod? could be fun to have to build forms and pour it like water but it hardens after a set amt of time. Could be a fun gameplay but that's just play...
Just my 2 cents. 100% sincere in saying "thanks for sharing." Keep building fun stuff, Engineers!
There's already a pretty robust request for stone, surprised this hasn't been merged with it yet. My opinions on it though:
Stone with the new backpack building would make the game elementary-level easy. You could dig stone anywhere with your character and immediately start building like it was Fortnite. If stone exists it should have to run through a refinery and provide even less ore than it does in SE1. Otherwise I think it will ruin the balance with backpack building.
Ore is everywhere and seemingly in more abundance than SE1, it's just the veins need to be a little bigger than what they are now. There's also tons of unknown signals now which are larger and have many salvageable materials making mining for the basics even less necessary. We also seem to need way less components to build things in SE2 so ore goes a lot farther.
Other than the tutorial I think I've only mined for iron once and uranium once. Otherwise I've built everything I need with just salvaged components from objectives and unknown signals.
Aside from the inclusion of concrete (only useful on planets) and terraforming (which would be way too exploitable and server intensive with players terraforming around people's grids to mess with them)... stone is only useful super early game and after that just becomes a hassle to deal with.
Mining ore is directly is way more efficient and you have to eject mass amounts of stone when you inevitably don't want it anymore, which has server performance implications. Not to mention the server impacts of people setting up stone drilling rigs to mine HUGE holes non-stop which also impacts sim speed as it does in SE1.
I want them to cook more with no stone before we go back. It's just too imbalanced with backpack building to have stone and clogs up production systems. It's not that hard to go fine ore and mine it, plus it's unreasonable that all stone everywhere has so much ore within it.
Most importantly, existing player behavior with stone impacts server performance which is something we can't sacrifice an inch on in SE2 as it already feels like we're near limit on performance.
There's already a pretty robust request for stone, surprised this hasn't been merged with it yet. My opinions on it though:
Stone with the new backpack building would make the game elementary-level easy. You could dig stone anywhere with your character and immediately start building like it was Fortnite. If stone exists it should have to run through a refinery and provide even less ore than it does in SE1. Otherwise I think it will ruin the balance with backpack building.
Ore is everywhere and seemingly in more abundance than SE1, it's just the veins need to be a little bigger than what they are now. There's also tons of unknown signals now which are larger and have many salvageable materials making mining for the basics even less necessary. We also seem to need way less components to build things in SE2 so ore goes a lot farther.
Other than the tutorial I think I've only mined for iron once and uranium once. Otherwise I've built everything I need with just salvaged components from objectives and unknown signals.
Aside from the inclusion of concrete (only useful on planets) and terraforming (which would be way too exploitable and server intensive with players terraforming around people's grids to mess with them)... stone is only useful super early game and after that just becomes a hassle to deal with.
Mining ore is directly is way more efficient and you have to eject mass amounts of stone when you inevitably don't want it anymore, which has server performance implications. Not to mention the server impacts of people setting up stone drilling rigs to mine HUGE holes non-stop which also impacts sim speed as it does in SE1.
I want them to cook more with no stone before we go back. It's just too imbalanced with backpack building to have stone and clogs up production systems. It's not that hard to go fine ore and mine it, plus it's unreasonable that all stone everywhere has so much ore within it.
Most importantly, existing player behavior with stone impacts server performance which is something we can't sacrifice an inch on in SE2 as it already feels like we're near limit on performance.
I liked the idea I read about calcite deposits existing for concrete specifically.
Therefore stone being mineable everywhere is not really needed as you would just need calcite ore deposits.I agree with the idea of wood being a resource in the game, perhaps one you could also get carbon from, and make carbon based armor blocks that are lightweight.
I liked the idea I read about calcite deposits existing for concrete specifically.
Therefore stone being mineable everywhere is not really needed as you would just need calcite ore deposits.I agree with the idea of wood being a resource in the game, perhaps one you could also get carbon from, and make carbon based armor blocks that are lightweight.
I really like the idea of houses made out of actual stone.
I really like the idea of houses made out of actual stone.
Mt thoughts on the stone being introduce into the game is just a firm Hell no!!!...why you ask...simply put its going to cause more issues then its worth...For someone that can clearly remember the days of putting a grav gen behind collectors and mining with a hand tool you come to the very clear and unmistakable impression that you will collect more stone then you will or ore...(example 5k in stone and 2.5 in iron ore...with that said once you have said stone/ore you need to get to a planet along with deciding on what it is your going to do with the stone and ore...you can eject it from your ship...but the admins are not going to like floating rocks floating around and no one is going to like a laggy server...now let say for giggles that don't eject it and keep it...now we have to worry about the weight that we have on a ship and if we have a planet base we are now not only going to be slow to get started going to the planet but we are no going to have to figure out a a way not to crash while hoping that the ice we have in the hydro thruster is enough keep us a float...
Can we compromise with the issue sure...i would like to propose several options since every one seems to like planets why not make it so that only hand drills can collect the stone as well as ore...this way some that would like to make concrete out of the stone may do so...but if you are in a ship or in space and in a ship you never have to deal with stone...
If not that then at lease make it so there a stone crusher or something that make stone useful...more then just concrete blocks...traces amount of ore in the stone for a new machine that dose this mid game...but also limit the type of ore that is in the stone so there is not race to said machine just do people are running around with ion cannons on the ship 15 mins after that get into the game...at lease have some sense of balance....
Had to have said my peace about the matter cause after 7k hr in SE1 and have had nightmare issues of where to put the stone Cause it taking up 3/4 of your ship's cargo...Or just trying to get the gravel out of the assembler cause your using a inventory manger...its just a hard NO for stone in the game... at lease cause i said my peace i might have a chance to have the issues that i had in SE 1 go into the past
Mt thoughts on the stone being introduce into the game is just a firm Hell no!!!...why you ask...simply put its going to cause more issues then its worth...For someone that can clearly remember the days of putting a grav gen behind collectors and mining with a hand tool you come to the very clear and unmistakable impression that you will collect more stone then you will or ore...(example 5k in stone and 2.5 in iron ore...with that said once you have said stone/ore you need to get to a planet along with deciding on what it is your going to do with the stone and ore...you can eject it from your ship...but the admins are not going to like floating rocks floating around and no one is going to like a laggy server...now let say for giggles that don't eject it and keep it...now we have to worry about the weight that we have on a ship and if we have a planet base we are now not only going to be slow to get started going to the planet but we are no going to have to figure out a a way not to crash while hoping that the ice we have in the hydro thruster is enough keep us a float...
Can we compromise with the issue sure...i would like to propose several options since every one seems to like planets why not make it so that only hand drills can collect the stone as well as ore...this way some that would like to make concrete out of the stone may do so...but if you are in a ship or in space and in a ship you never have to deal with stone...
If not that then at lease make it so there a stone crusher or something that make stone useful...more then just concrete blocks...traces amount of ore in the stone for a new machine that dose this mid game...but also limit the type of ore that is in the stone so there is not race to said machine just do people are running around with ion cannons on the ship 15 mins after that get into the game...at lease have some sense of balance....
Had to have said my peace about the matter cause after 7k hr in SE1 and have had nightmare issues of where to put the stone Cause it taking up 3/4 of your ship's cargo...Or just trying to get the gravel out of the assembler cause your using a inventory manger...its just a hard NO for stone in the game... at lease cause i said my peace i might have a chance to have the issues that i had in SE 1 go into the past
something I would like to add. It would be nice to properly Carve voxel stone and use as blocks.
something I would like to add. It would be nice to properly Carve voxel stone and use as blocks.
Agreed. PLEASE bring back stone! There's no incentive to even mine when the resource deposits are too small to use. I tend to just disassemble the random bases that populate to build my stations.
Agreed. PLEASE bring back stone! There's no incentive to even mine when the resource deposits are too small to use. I tend to just disassemble the random bases that populate to build my stations.
I genually hope if this is brought back, that it will be a togable option.
Compared to SE1, in SE2 start I got to use the already created ships and finding a new station was a blessing. I was walking around wondering what I will be able to grind out of it this time.
Meanwhile the whole " stone" processing just takes away all of that. We end up in a situation where almost no ressources or structures bring excitment , as you can get as many as you want from just under your feet.
Using stone for concrete sounds cool, but there would need to be a reason for this to not be used on flying ships I think.
I genually hope if this is brought back, that it will be a togable option.
Compared to SE1, in SE2 start I got to use the already created ships and finding a new station was a blessing. I was walking around wondering what I will be able to grind out of it this time.
Meanwhile the whole " stone" processing just takes away all of that. We end up in a situation where almost no ressources or structures bring excitment , as you can get as many as you want from just under your feet.
Using stone for concrete sounds cool, but there would need to be a reason for this to not be used on flying ships I think.
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