Higher Speed / Unlimited Speed
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Alot of players find SE1 unplayable without a speed mod. In SE2, the distances feel even larger, even with 300m/s.
Higher, or unlimited speed also adds lots of depth to gameplay. Ships with most thrust in the same direction will accelerate faster, at the cost of maneuverability. Smaller, more maneuverable ships will always be able to catch up to larger ships, instead of hitting a speed limit and being unable to reach them.
For balance, players could receive damage if G forces are too high for too long.
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I've played SE1 at 500m/s with a mod forever, 300 is slow and the boost mechanic needs to be an option, I'd rather have full speed all the time.
I've played SE1 at 500m/s with a mod forever, 300 is slow and the boost mechanic needs to be an option, I'd rather have full speed all the time.
Pretty sure this is engine limitation.
I mean, there are mods that bypass this, but the game will probably have difficulty loading / crashing when you move so fast.
Pretty sure this is engine limitation.
I mean, there are mods that bypass this, but the game will probably have difficulty loading / crashing when you move so fast.
Yeah, I totally understand to keep it capped at 300m/s to have a reliable collision system. But other games manage to cope with that problem, too, in their very own way. E.g. "Kerbal Space Program" had a very good concept without having a "senseable" speed limit (at least I never experienced one). However, Kerbal is about a somewhat realistic space physics, i.e. they pursuit a different goal than SE2 devs do. In Kerbal you can can speed up the time, which causes your vehicles to move in insane speeds (from a game engine perspective). Once obstacles come closer, the maximum "simulation speed" is decreased. E.g. when you reenter a planets atmosphere or get to close to a stellar object without atmosphere (e.g. the moons surface). In Kerbal this doesn't break immersion, as only the experienced or "clock" time is slowed; not the in-world-velocity. This cannot be applied to SE2 just like that due to numerous reasons (e.g. in multiplayer this would be very challenging to have different "clock" times between players). But maybe this could be used "under the hood" to e.g. allow a virtual much higher velocity, but let the physics engine play out any crash at 300m/s. Either this could just be capped (so each crash beyond 300m/s would yield the very same result no matter how much faster; which might not be too far away from a reasonable outcome) or extrapolated (e.g. speed of shrapnels are multiplied with a factor after collision was handled at 300m/s).
Maybe this isn't something for an alpha version, though.
Yeah, I totally understand to keep it capped at 300m/s to have a reliable collision system. But other games manage to cope with that problem, too, in their very own way. E.g. "Kerbal Space Program" had a very good concept without having a "senseable" speed limit (at least I never experienced one). However, Kerbal is about a somewhat realistic space physics, i.e. they pursuit a different goal than SE2 devs do. In Kerbal you can can speed up the time, which causes your vehicles to move in insane speeds (from a game engine perspective). Once obstacles come closer, the maximum "simulation speed" is decreased. E.g. when you reenter a planets atmosphere or get to close to a stellar object without atmosphere (e.g. the moons surface). In Kerbal this doesn't break immersion, as only the experienced or "clock" time is slowed; not the in-world-velocity. This cannot be applied to SE2 just like that due to numerous reasons (e.g. in multiplayer this would be very challenging to have different "clock" times between players). But maybe this could be used "under the hood" to e.g. allow a virtual much higher velocity, but let the physics engine play out any crash at 300m/s. Either this could just be capped (so each crash beyond 300m/s would yield the very same result no matter how much faster; which might not be too far away from a reasonable outcome) or extrapolated (e.g. speed of shrapnels are multiplied with a factor after collision was handled at 300m/s).
Maybe this isn't something for an alpha version, though.
As has been said, the speed limitation isn't just the devs being mean or anything but it has to do with physics calulcations, more specificly collision. The collision is calculated once every frame and if you were going too fast, you might have issues with small blocks glitching through thin obstacles like a 25cm wall because the fast-moving block would appear in front of the obstacle at one frame and behind it in the next one. Never registering any overlap. This also has to work with low framerates so even if the collision registers properly at 60 fps, it might not at 20 fps because things are only checked 1/3 of the time. Also add the fact that you also need to be able to collide two objects flying at max speed to 600m/s closure rate.
There are ways to improve this behaviour (which the game is most likely already using) like physics sub-stepping where you run the physics engine at higher framerate compared to rendering but that can only help so much before causing very high CPU requirements.
Kerbal Space Program doesn't really count because it's ships are physicsless during time warp. They just move at a calculated velocity on a pre-calculated line without any collision detection. The game also doesn't need to calculate collision so precisely because the objects you can hit are rather large compared to the mentioned minimum in SE2, which is 25cm blocks.
Lastly, I don't feel like the speed limit is any low. I could easily fly to the other side of Verdure without it feeling tedious and for real long-range travel, the devs give us fast-travel. Later to be turned into jump gates.
As has been said, the speed limitation isn't just the devs being mean or anything but it has to do with physics calulcations, more specificly collision. The collision is calculated once every frame and if you were going too fast, you might have issues with small blocks glitching through thin obstacles like a 25cm wall because the fast-moving block would appear in front of the obstacle at one frame and behind it in the next one. Never registering any overlap. This also has to work with low framerates so even if the collision registers properly at 60 fps, it might not at 20 fps because things are only checked 1/3 of the time. Also add the fact that you also need to be able to collide two objects flying at max speed to 600m/s closure rate.
There are ways to improve this behaviour (which the game is most likely already using) like physics sub-stepping where you run the physics engine at higher framerate compared to rendering but that can only help so much before causing very high CPU requirements.
Kerbal Space Program doesn't really count because it's ships are physicsless during time warp. They just move at a calculated velocity on a pre-calculated line without any collision detection. The game also doesn't need to calculate collision so precisely because the objects you can hit are rather large compared to the mentioned minimum in SE2, which is 25cm blocks.
Lastly, I don't feel like the speed limit is any low. I could easily fly to the other side of Verdure without it feeling tedious and for real long-range travel, the devs give us fast-travel. Later to be turned into jump gates.
There has to be a speed limit of some type due to technical and performance issues that arise at the higher speeds. Some of the problems your run into if a ship goes too fast is the issues of phasing, combat being impossible, and near world ending performance drops if they splat something, along with lag from rendering/de-rendering objects.
First up, the higher the speed limit, the less and less time the game has to actually render and calculate certain things. Doesn't necessarily mean you're going to have issues just because the game has to move faster, but you're increasing the likelihood of them if you keep pushing the limits. In SE1 generally you can speed mod to 200m/s without issues, but you've cut the time the game has to respond and do stuff in half. Generally 300m/s is considered safe for the most part but still there are risks.
When you start running into phasing this means the game isn't being given enough time to calculate collisions. If you don't completely make it through the object before it does actually manage to run collision data then you're screwed to put it bluntly because if you think the lag from a high speed boom is bad enough now at 300m/s, wait until you get a boom at say 1200 m/s or higher.
Another issue is that turrets and munitions depend on ships only going to a certain speed. You can get too fast to the point that you're outrunning the turrets and ammo making combat impossible.
Overall there are too many risks to do a super high speed limit assuming the system can keep up. It sucks but it exists for a reason. There are other ways to address concerns with travel and contracts without moving the speed limit.
There has to be a speed limit of some type due to technical and performance issues that arise at the higher speeds. Some of the problems your run into if a ship goes too fast is the issues of phasing, combat being impossible, and near world ending performance drops if they splat something, along with lag from rendering/de-rendering objects.
First up, the higher the speed limit, the less and less time the game has to actually render and calculate certain things. Doesn't necessarily mean you're going to have issues just because the game has to move faster, but you're increasing the likelihood of them if you keep pushing the limits. In SE1 generally you can speed mod to 200m/s without issues, but you've cut the time the game has to respond and do stuff in half. Generally 300m/s is considered safe for the most part but still there are risks.
When you start running into phasing this means the game isn't being given enough time to calculate collisions. If you don't completely make it through the object before it does actually manage to run collision data then you're screwed to put it bluntly because if you think the lag from a high speed boom is bad enough now at 300m/s, wait until you get a boom at say 1200 m/s or higher.
Another issue is that turrets and munitions depend on ships only going to a certain speed. You can get too fast to the point that you're outrunning the turrets and ammo making combat impossible.
Overall there are too many risks to do a super high speed limit assuming the system can keep up. It sucks but it exists for a reason. There are other ways to address concerns with travel and contracts without moving the speed limit.
Much that I like going fast, There are a few issues:
-The game has a harder time keeping up with collisions, environmental changes, and loading new stuff. It may seem fine in an empty area where everything other than you is some manner of pre-loaded asset, but if you get somewhere crowded then you'll start seeing what the game engine does when instead of colliding it lags and then suddenly finds two grids entirely occupying the same space (hint: if you go fast enough and there's enough stuff around this can happen after you land and get out of your ship, and the results are less than ideal if you ever intend to use the ship again).
-Perception time becomes an issue, as people tend to get rather annoyed and think the game is glitchy when they just explode in mid air because they hit something small so fast they never saw it was actually there.
-Perception range becomes an issue as speed indirectly increases combat ranges in building games like SE, and people tend to find the game less fun when combat is just them watching tracers from their turrets zip off toward a targeting reticule identifying something smaller than a single pixel on their 62" screen.
So, as much as I like to go fast, I suspect we'll just need to wait for ship-portable FTL (assuming the devs don't work out a way to solve the problems and throw a bit more to the cap in optimization).
Much that I like going fast, There are a few issues:
-The game has a harder time keeping up with collisions, environmental changes, and loading new stuff. It may seem fine in an empty area where everything other than you is some manner of pre-loaded asset, but if you get somewhere crowded then you'll start seeing what the game engine does when instead of colliding it lags and then suddenly finds two grids entirely occupying the same space (hint: if you go fast enough and there's enough stuff around this can happen after you land and get out of your ship, and the results are less than ideal if you ever intend to use the ship again).
-Perception time becomes an issue, as people tend to get rather annoyed and think the game is glitchy when they just explode in mid air because they hit something small so fast they never saw it was actually there.
-Perception range becomes an issue as speed indirectly increases combat ranges in building games like SE, and people tend to find the game less fun when combat is just them watching tracers from their turrets zip off toward a targeting reticule identifying something smaller than a single pixel on their 62" screen.
So, as much as I like to go fast, I suspect we'll just need to wait for ship-portable FTL (assuming the devs don't work out a way to solve the problems and throw a bit more to the cap in optimization).
Also add higher consumption of fuel for higher speeds
Also add higher consumption of fuel for higher speeds
there is no g force in space. g force is only on planets since it is a force exerted on the body or whatever as it fights gravity. last i checked gravity isnt in space.
there is no g force in space. g force is only on planets since it is a force exerted on the body or whatever as it fights gravity. last i checked gravity isnt in space.
I think they should just, add an advanced settings option to overwrite the default speed, and give a warning that altering that setting might cause issues in game, because regardless what happens, theres gonna be mods for it, we might aswell have it built in-game
I think they should just, add an advanced settings option to overwrite the default speed, and give a warning that altering that setting might cause issues in game, because regardless what happens, theres gonna be mods for it, we might aswell have it built in-game
Since this is one of the #1 defacto mods people always want to use in any SE1 game, it should be getting a lot of attention once the code is built up and smoothed out. Right now speed will hitch the game constantly and cause other things to break, but people are suggesting ways to make it work much better, without stripping out the core experience or skimping.
Since this is one of the #1 defacto mods people always want to use in any SE1 game, it should be getting a lot of attention once the code is built up and smoothed out. Right now speed will hitch the game constantly and cause other things to break, but people are suggesting ways to make it work much better, without stripping out the core experience or skimping.
I'm happy if we can mod it. A game slider with a "Warning" when you take it above a certain limit would be nice too.
I'd really like to be able to change the gravity falloff on planets though. Greater gravity range plus higher speed limit equals orbits and more interesting engineering challenges.
I'm happy if we can mod it. A game slider with a "Warning" when you take it above a certain limit would be nice too.
I'd really like to be able to change the gravity falloff on planets though. Greater gravity range plus higher speed limit equals orbits and more interesting engineering challenges.
It can never be unlimited. You'd be hard pressed to find a system than can smoothly handle the rendering on planets traveling too far above the speed limit.
My setup is on the higher end of mid-range setups and less than a year old and my frame rates drop big time when flying over 100 m/s below 1,000m altitude on High graphics with Performance Priority. Task manager doesn't even show my system maxing out so I think to some extent it's an engine limitation.
You can fly around right now with the Specatator camera at higher speeds. If you go 600m/s the rendering can't even remotely keep up. I'm sure this will get better with future performance improvements.
I do support a boost mechanic to go above the speed limit while applying thrust and burning extra fuel with an improved bonus for lighter ships, but even that mechanic still has to have a hard cap (350-400m/s). It can never be unlimited in vanilla or a lot of people won't be able to play the game.
There is a speed mod right now in SE2. You can test and fly around a planet and see how the game performs.
It can never be unlimited. You'd be hard pressed to find a system than can smoothly handle the rendering on planets traveling too far above the speed limit.
My setup is on the higher end of mid-range setups and less than a year old and my frame rates drop big time when flying over 100 m/s below 1,000m altitude on High graphics with Performance Priority. Task manager doesn't even show my system maxing out so I think to some extent it's an engine limitation.
You can fly around right now with the Specatator camera at higher speeds. If you go 600m/s the rendering can't even remotely keep up. I'm sure this will get better with future performance improvements.
I do support a boost mechanic to go above the speed limit while applying thrust and burning extra fuel with an improved bonus for lighter ships, but even that mechanic still has to have a hard cap (350-400m/s). It can never be unlimited in vanilla or a lot of people won't be able to play the game.
There is a speed mod right now in SE2. You can test and fly around a planet and see how the game performs.
Just limit speed based on nearby mass.
Close to station? Slows down.
Approaching planet? Slows down.
Flying by asteroid? Slows down.
In the void? WHEEEEE
Just limit speed based on nearby mass.
Close to station? Slows down.
Approaching planet? Slows down.
Flying by asteroid? Slows down.
In the void? WHEEEEE
It would be best if they slightly increased the speed in space and limited it in Earth’s atmosphere, since there is air resistance there. With the current speed, you can fly across planets in minutes, and this creates the feeling that they are small.
SE2 does not position itself as a super-scientific space simulator for long-distance flights, and the distances between planets there are small, so there is no need for high speeds. However, the same speed as in space cannot be achieved on planets, at least because there is an atmosphere and air resistance prevents it. Therefore, the best thing that can be done is to limit the speed on the planet and make the speed in space a bit higher.
It would be best if they slightly increased the speed in space and limited it in Earth’s atmosphere, since there is air resistance there. With the current speed, you can fly across planets in minutes, and this creates the feeling that they are small.
SE2 does not position itself as a super-scientific space simulator for long-distance flights, and the distances between planets there are small, so there is no need for high speeds. However, the same speed as in space cannot be achieved on planets, at least because there is an atmosphere and air resistance prevents it. Therefore, the best thing that can be done is to limit the speed on the planet and make the speed in space a bit higher.
A potential solution for rendering issues is to create a " warp bubble" from 301m/s +.
The buble is created around the ship, we stop rendering new features.
The ship moves.
Once we reach 300m/s or less the warp bubble starts dissipating and we start rendering again.
It's just the way SE2 was designed i feel like the 300m/s are 100% enough for our needs. The longest trip lasts 2-3 minutes max. Including going on the other side of the planet.
A potential solution for rendering issues is to create a " warp bubble" from 301m/s +.
The buble is created around the ship, we stop rendering new features.
The ship moves.
Once we reach 300m/s or less the warp bubble starts dissipating and we start rendering again.
It's just the way SE2 was designed i feel like the 300m/s are 100% enough for our needs. The longest trip lasts 2-3 minutes max. Including going on the other side of the planet.
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