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Regarding the new respawn system

Kuroshi shared this feedback 2 years ago
Completed

For those who did not play the playtest: The new respawn system does not have a respawn screen anymore when you have an available medbay or survival kit. You will instead respawn at the nearest medbay or SKIT available to you.


The new respawn system is, in my mind highly flawed and should at least be made optional, like the Progression system. This is currently not the case. Those of you who read the blog post of Marek might think it is, but it is not. My major suggestion is: Make it a toggle. However I also have additional ideas

It is also very exploitable, I will list the ideas I got in the first few minutes


1. Place active welders around an enemy medbay and kill said enemy, he will respawn and die in an endless loop until he logs of.

2. Use timers or scripts to turn medbays off and on again to teleport. This makes the system useless entirely and is very easy to do.


I currently run a very populated server in which we partially rely on the fact that people can spawn at public medbays at any given time, and I know of other server who rely on this too. The update would break the whole design of those servers and make some server design impossible, which is why I think there should be a toggle or the new respawn system should be scrapped for a respawn system that introduces costs. This has already been suggested: https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/medical-room-improvement-survival-cost-to-respawn

But I would like to add some ideas to this, especially to prevent respawn abuse to raid bases

As said in the other feedback, medbays should have a power cost and a component cost. This cost is based on how many blocks you have total and reduces with the time you've been alive without dying, increases with medbay distance from point of death and multiplies if it's a medbay near the one you respawned last at. This cost should be able to be 0 if:You have less than a certain threshold of total blocks in the world, I think 500 would be a good number or if you died very close to your medbay (200-400m maybe).

Additionally, I would have an idea how to integrate teleporting into the new system, although this does not solve either of the exploits mentioned above: Give cryopods a teleporting function to connected grids with cryopods, meaning antenna or laser antenna connection.

Comments (12)

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6

I don't necessarily agree with the recommended tweaks to the respawn system suggested by Kuroshi, but I would say it doesn't make sense at all for the new system to be enforced and not an optional world setting as was promised by Marek in his blog post.


Quote...


Spawn options will now appear for each planet in the world. New spawn ships have been made to add new challenges and players will now respawn at their last used or nearest medical room or survival kit. A world option has been added for those who prefer the old respawn system.


I understand the purpose behind the new system and it seems pretty cool, sure. It's a bit of a blow for those of us who run servers where a system of neutral shared spawns are used heavily though. We set up our servers for our communities to play a certain way. Why mess around with that? Options are great, enforced changes are not... Especially when we're told ahead of time they won't be enforced.

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I agree with Kothe, the simplest solution is to embrace a fast travel mechanic (seriously, sci-fi is the perfect setting for it!) with one added suggestion: Only players can fast travel, any items in their inventory are dumped into the grid they're departing from. If there is a "problem" with the community abusing the respawn mechanic to fast travel, it's because they want a fast travel mechanic. Also a world option toggle would be great for both, if the new respawn is really that important.

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I can only agree with this post. Marek is the CEO, but for a weird reason, CEO's word is not respected...

I hope KSH will hear us and give us OPTIONS.


Thank you

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There should be option to respawn at closest survival kit or at a chosen Med Bay. Survival Kit and new system introduced in public test made Med Bay obsolete. I don't like idea of component cost for respawn. Old system with spawn cooldown was good.

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I am not a fan of a pay to spawn system that could be flawed in the same way simple solution is add an option to spawn In suit near by or start over In a new lander then if remove ship is on it removes old ship and you start over

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Hi Kuroshi, if I may add my comment as a link:

I created this ticket when I realized that the respawn system is in general "not improved"..

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I think that the idea of utilizing laser antenna or antenna would create an interesting new respawn system. In order to transfer from one Medical Bay (MB) to another, the two MBs must be within antenna range. This give a purpose for laser antenna to establish a long range teleport network.

When a player die, they will be respawned at the previous used MB. If the player wish to transfer to another MB within antenna range, they need to step inside the current MB and initiate transfer. If the player's current MB is destroyed, they will be respawning at the closest friendly MB or have the option to start over.

Another problem that this help is about finding players in multiplayer. If a large fleet want to be able to have their players moved from one ship in the fleet to another, all ships must be within antenna range, which make them more visible to a scout for example.

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Due to the heavy community created components of this game, why not just make everything configurable. Locking in settings restricts player freedom of expression and will push away disgruntled players.

I'm all for the heavy survival aspect that Keen is pushing for Space Engineers and I feel it has its place in the community, but it should not be the only option of play.

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while i do like the new respawn system, it is still nice to have options :)

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Online multiplayer has been around long enough that *every game* has adapted a set of rules to overcome the obvious exploits that KSH will permit under the new system. Why dial the clock back to 1995?

If you force this system on us, you will force some of the community coders to mod it back. its that simple. Frankly this is what happens when it takes five years to "finish" a game.


Xen_Zer0

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I think energy cost on the grid to respawn player is a great idea to prevent far away respawn/teleport. Maybe something like distance^2 of a very small energy cost would make it harder and harder to respawn in a far away distance unless the grid there have enormous amount of available energy either in battery or reactor. This would "force" player to stay closer from their med bay and be way more careful when they move far away. Actually player can die over and over all the time and there is no real cost to that, there is no big incentive to stay alive other than don't drop my stuff on ground.

This would still permit long distance respawn teleport, but at cost of some major energy. Player could still work around with it by having multiple respawn point between 2 points that are far away to have a lower overall energy cost, which would value more space station between planets and create some "delay" to teleport around.

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Here's an idea. Add teleportation. Scientist dont even now understand how gravity works and ingame we have gravity generators.

So if you add a couple blocks as a teleportation device , lets say it requires to be within an antena range and draws 1 kilo of uranium per use?

That was players wouldnt respawn teleport but rather just travel to another location do do your work or visit a friend or what not.

I think its worth looking into Keen team.

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Whatever happened to the good old days when you climbed into your Cryopod and enjoyed the nap on your auto-pilot cruise back to base? Now everyone wants the instant gratification of being able to be slung clear across the universe in an instant. No wonder people are losing their minds and slamming into asteroids at alarming rates! It causes brain rot!

Solution: Player capped at possessing one survival block. Medbay no longer spawns. Add new block called "Transporter" for a buildable spawn point. Must be point to point. (need two). Make it cost huge amounts to build. Make it similar to a Jump drive but actually look, sound, and act like a Transporter. Power is pulled from the sending location. Receiving unit just has to be online/powered. Throw in a random % chance that it will fail with no effect but all the same power drain... another % chance it will send you to a random location or one near your target. Throw in a random chance it will generate a feature enhancement request to the forums that will never come.

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Hi, Engineers!


We have changed these things here:


1) Fixed the bug where player can spawn on the Survival Kit/Medical Bay with shared with all settings.


2) We have added an option to the world to use the old respawn system.


3) The weapon and ammo are not given to everyone on spawn, but they are inside the Cargo Container of the respawn pod.


Cheers!


The Space Engineers Team

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"It is also very exploitable, I will list the ideas I got in the first few minutes


1. Place active welders around an enemy medbay and kill said enemy, he will respawn and die in an endless loop until he logs of.


2. Use timers or scripts to turn medbays off and on again to teleport. This makes the system useless entirely and is very easy to do.


"


These issues are still present.