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Default Hydrogen Tanks are just too big

SpaceEngineers_Love_CZ shared this feedback 19 months ago
Completed

Hey, it's me again...


So let's say i have a small car... This car runs on the hydrogen engine, which has internal 100l capacity. But that is not enough, my car travelled like 100m, and stopped. So it would be very pleasant to have smaller hydrogen tanks, 1x1 or 1x3 for this purpose. It would also allow building other compact hydrogen powered contraptions. Also, i'm not sure how much can a hydrogen bottle hold, but it would be awesome if the engine could be refueled with hydrogen bottles.


So that's all from me, thank you guys for this awesome work, keep it up! :)

Comments (21)

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6

Enable both tanks to function as either storage type, or just use their models for an opposite type version, will also work if they don't want to spend more time on models.

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make a hydrogen tank that is like te oxygen tank (2x1) it is easy to implant

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We really need smaller tanks. I build a lot of trucks and rovers. Would really like a 3x3x3 tank, just like the small grid oxygen tank.

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2x2x3 would be a good size for me on a small grid.

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For large-grid I'd ask for a 1x1x2 tank to help balance the use of Hydrogen Engines and for ships that only use a small number of Hydrogen Thrusters.

For small-grid I'd ask for a 3x3x3 tank to match with all the other 3x3x3 blocks, so the conveyor network doesn't have to be built around an odd-sized block.

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I'd really like at least a smaller version of some sort for small grids. I tried making some kind of small grid car with the hydrogen engine, fitting an hydrogen tank to give more autonomy simply blew up the whole design and made it bulky and hugly as hell, it's way too large it's ridiculous :')

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Yep we need a much smaller hydrogen tank, especially for small grids.


The current ones are just stupidly big.

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Easy... Just use a reworked Battery model with small ports on each side, stackable, and call them Fuel (storage) Cells... LOL

Same size as a battery and you can stack em in smaller, odd shaped areas.

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Yeah, a smaller hydrogen tank was something that I missed during the test. The current ones are fine, but too big to use them at the early stages.

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Hello, Engineers.


We have decided to increase Hydrogen Engine internal capacity, so the new block is no longer needed.


Cheers!

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5

Hi there,

This really is not what this feedback was about at all, neither does it adress it.

Please, haven't you paid attention to what was mentionned, here and in some other topics?


The problem is not that it's not containing enough gas. The problem is the physical oversize of it and the lack of alternatives, especially for small grids. It's one of the most common feedback I have seen so far over here, over your forums and over steam's forums... just increasing capacity does nothing about it.


The original post states(and this is also what I found during playtest), that the hydrogen engine's default 100L capacity was not quite enough, allowing to drive only for very short distances. The only alternative, to add some autonomy is... Adding an overkill 16000L tank... That is enough gas to drive around for hours but it looks ugly as hell to have a gigantic gas tank strapped to what was intended to look like say... a sports car of small size... You know, the kind that is almost on scale compared to the character and doesn't look like a giant toy replica of a car or a gas truck.


In another topic, pretty much everyone agreed that at least for small grids and for the sake of having at least one alternative, a 1X1X2 block or something around that size would be perfect. It would only contain a fraction of what the current one does anyway. For the large grids, something the size of the Oxygen tank (also 1X1X2) would be perfect as an alternative too, as stated by Ventus.

We don't need more capacity for the current tank really, a small grid can already reach space with only one tank.

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Hydrogen engine will be engine + tank in one in the next version. It will be enough to drive for several minutes with small car. So there will be not a need to use another tank for hydrogen => smaller car.

Please, test it out in the next public test and let us know if it's enough (of hydrogen in the engine) or not.

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Nice, thanks! Will do :)

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You could multiply the internal tank of the engine by 100, and it STILL wouldn't be the solution we are looking for. The new hydrogen engine only emphasised an issue that has been present forever - the tank is simply too big for a MYRIAD of uses and constructions, both on small and large grids.

Modern aircraft, especially fighter craft, squeeze in any number of tanks into often VERY tiny nooks and crannies, because liquid is almost infinitely flexible in where it can go as long as you can provide piping and weight and balance. What ISN'T flexible is solid cargo - a single large cargo hold is far more valuable and flexible than distributed small holds, boxes, bags and crates. Yet for some reason in Space Engineers we have small and large or even medium cargo containers for all sorts of uses, but the minute we want the same flexibility for fuel storage... Nah, sorry. Oversized tanks only. It doesn't fit your build? Tough luck!

Nearly all of my ships using hydrogen would benefit from more flexibility in tank sizes; be it that I could carry more fuel, convenience because I could replace my small cargo containers with a large one and use the freed up space for small fuel tanks, allowing my small grids to carry a bit of emergency hydrogen beyond clunky hydrogen bottles, or actually building the compact utility craft Keen intended to exist without resorting to Ion/Atmo only because the tank alone would make size explode.

A hydrogen engine with a large tank is the solution for a very specific subset of the problem. I don't need hydrogen engines however. I just need fuel tanks.

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That isn't the solution that is needed. The hydrogen engine just happened to highlight the problem further.


The only option we have for current hydrogen tanks are massive, larger as single blocks than some peoples ships. On fighters where hydrogen could be most useful, this is crippling.


What people are asking for is a small hydrogen tank which can fit inside their ships.

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So I tested the hydrogen engine with new capacity on a small rover again, since I love to drive around on the various planets and I expect alot of players will make rovers in the early stages of survival.


The engine now has 16000L, which is the same as a tank on a small grid.

I guess this number will be tweaked in the future and is intended as a test since it obviously makes the hydrogen tank obsolete.


The test was fairly simple, I've put a rudimentary buggy in the desert on the earthlike planet and drove it non-stop until out of gas. It lasted about 11min and went 25km away. In my personal opinion, 11min felt a bit short but I noticed hydrogen being consumed more slowly if nothing needs power so it would have lasted longer with less power to the wheels or if I had made stops. 25km is still a good distance considering the size of the planets and moons. It appeared reasonable overall, except it's weird to have a gastankengine in some ways.


To add autonomy, putting additional gastankengines is now better. So instead of gastruck looking cars, we can now build drag racers able to drive all the way around the earthlike planet on the gas of +-16 engines while such a world roaming monster should probably look like a gastruck itself :')

As a solution it definetely feels like fudge.


I once read in SE that you never have too much fuel, except when you're on fire. This is the exact reason real engineers try to put reservoirs of various sizes anywhere they can.

An alternative smaller hydrogen tank would allow more flexibility and feel more natural.


Vorg's idea sounds the best so far.


Now this whole test, when it was over and I wanted to refuel the car... also highlighted to me that the connector for small grids is still as big as a cockpit and the same size as the O2/H2 generator so it was downright better to put a generator...


Maybe the core of the issue here is just alot of small grid blocks being oversized to the point of inconvenience over their intended purpose while also inflating designs in an unaesthetic way. The connector is a good example because a small connector the size of the ejector, that would be used just for gas like hydrogen and oxygen, would feel more natural, make more sense and would be way more convenient than having no other option than a mansized cargo port.


It's probably the kind of stuff players will request alot in the future regarding small grids unless something is made about it, especialy as survival is being revamped, small grids being cheaper and easier to build.


Thanks if you took the time to read all this! ^^

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Someone post the suggestion again, but in Ukranian this time. Maybe then they'll be able to understand it.

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Real simple question for you Keen, I have absolute faith you won't answer it. If 1 hydrogen engine meets my power demand, why should we be forced to choose between, A: more power than necessary (which also = more weight and space) B: WAY more hydrogen then necessary (which takes uses alot of space.) This is a futuristic sci-fi game and we can't even build anything close to the scale and performance of a modern car with the games closest analog of an ICE engine. We are requesting one simple concept that would provide for an array of creative possibility but your stubborn narrow-minded "design philosophies" are allowing you to reduce that down to something it isn't. You're putting a band-aid over a pothole of missing potential.

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False, Keen- we aren't talking about the Hydrogen engine! What we NEED is a smaller hydrogen tank so that we can build more compact rovers and small grid ships- the vanilla tank is HUGE- 5x5x5! Why? No reason for it to be that large, it could easily be 3x3x3 and still connect to the small grid large conveyor ports ( only needs to connect to small ones but hey, whatever ).


Your arrogance and total failure to understand the very simple reason for wanting smaller hydrogen tanks is astounding- reconsider, or get someone with some actual ship-building experience to think look at the issue instead, they might actually have a clue...

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That is not the solution we are looking for !

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We'll see how it is in the next public test.

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not bad idea hey if someone read this put a oxygen sized hydrogen tank in the next public test and lets see what pepole like more

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5

we want a tank that is 2/27 of the capacity of the big hydrogen tank just make the oxygen tank tahat can contain hydrogen (change the text on a oxygen tank to hydrogen put it back small hydrogen tank)

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I don't understand the reasoning behind having hydrogen engines have a internal hydrogen storage tank. It could come in handy for redundancy if a tank or conveyor is damaged but i think that should be part of the design/armor/layout of the ship and not something that is baked in to one block.

Are we expected to make multiple hydrogen engines as storage tanks for compact designs? I almost feel that Keen is teasing us and has a solution up their sleeve that will be announced later.

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Seems to me, the best thing would be to change both the O2 tank and the H2 tank to just "Gas" tank. Then when you build it, there would be another option: O2 or H2. Would need to empty the tank before switching gas type. Replace the gas type label with a display that shows which gas it has.

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i agree with your other post Vorg. You make a point that easy for both sides. Its very minimal coding.

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That would be perfect!

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Solution is to increase Tank Capacity without reducing size!

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The anwser is no.


And clearly you haven't read or understood any of the above or the core of the problem itself if you think this is the proper solution.

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I'd like if they treated it like cargo containers. By what I mean we'd have three size options for Oxygen and Hydrogen. The large which I think we have already, a medium and a small.

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Yes, Definitly, Absolutely!

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You only have large and small for large grids. But yea, smaller tanks are needed. I would like to be able to build a small minner/craft using H2 fuel since it requires simpler resources. Could be built before finding everything neded for Ion engines. Planet side, you can just make small atmo engines.

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Oh look, this is why I made my mod for compact tanks :D

1x1,1x2,1x3 w/ 6 ports and 1x3 w/o ports on the side for performance reasons.

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Yea,totally slap a complete on this Keen... I go fully stock hydrogen generators and they do nothing. At least when I put this MASSIVE tank on it works...

Can't we just squish the model down to 3x3x3 and call it a day?

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Just add smaller hydro tanks, it's all about it. We need more options without using mods.

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I quess there is a misunderstanding here, Keen. OP was talking about hydrogen tank as a block not about internal hydrogen tank of hydrogen engine block.