turret shooting neutral grids OFF by default

It's not a question of simply forgetting- you can't even build the damn turret as it will start shooting instantly if there is ammo available via conveyors, or place it in creative as it will start shooting instantly. You have to build or place the turret with your ships power turned off, that's the only way to stop it from attacking neutrals instantly- not exactly the most convenient way of doing things. It's only funny the first time- losing stuff YOU want to salvage or own in your own survival game stops being funny awfully quickly...

Also let's not forget the "turrets firing at blocks that are welded to owner 'nobody'" bug... which I just saw happen a few days ago for the first time in forever. Was in a DS, and think it was an outlier, but... just in case.

You can turn it of before building the turret or turn the conveyor off before welding it up and all so remembering to turn off your Nanties or build and reapair mods if you use them.

So yes you can build the Turrets with out it shooting 100% of the time.

You seem to have largely ignored what I said about creative mode building, and have also ignored the issue of multiple people building grids- it's impossible to co-ordinate multiple people or people + build & repair to make sure turrets won't attack neutral or friendly grids. You also ignored the issues of ownership and blocks becoming neutral or hostile due to ownership issues that have plagued SE since day 1.

I know you mean well, but your suggestions don't solve the issue; it NEEDS to be turned off by default, and the ownership system needs drastically simplifying to avoid owned and friendly blocks being identified as hostile or unowned.

Well untill they do or not do this use a script to Auto turn off weapon or you can even set the sub controlls.

*groan*

Yeah, we know you can use scripts or mods to alter turret behaviour- you're missing the entire point of this topic, still.

So, one last time, just for you:

TARGET NEUTRALS SHOULD BE TURNED OFF BY DEFAULT.

Understand now? Only enemies ( grids/stations/players ) should be targetted by default, and turret range should be set to maximum too- that's another issue ( range on turrets and ore detectors not being maxxed out by default ).

Keen consistently make very weird decisions that make no sense, or decisions that are hugely unpopular and ignore the thousands of players telling them as much. They don't need people making excuses for them or offering advice that we already know, they need to get their act together and start listening to the players ( the ones who have a clue what they're talking about at that ) who've been pointing out long standing issues for years and actually start fixing them.

/discussion

And i disagree with the Idea ,,, and we are talking about a Topic.

My reasoning is this i do not want everything done for me to make it easy.

Keen have given us a few ways around these "probems" Like scripts etc or power the grid down before placing a turret block in creative,, and so on..

Disagreeing dose not mean i do not get the Idea.

You're not listening, are you, still- you keep ignoring points, and don't think about the broader picture. What about servers where you can't use mods or scripts? What about multiple people building grids? What about ownership issues?

Simply saying 'turn off the grid' isn't an answer or solution in any of those situations, especially ones with ownership problems caused by an overly complicated ownership system. Just this evening I watched someone paste in friendly grids from blueprints, and the turrets on an existing friendly ship went mental and tore it to pieces- because SE decides some pasted grids are friendly, and some are hostile or neutral. Explain how someone in the same faction as you can paste in grids that become hostile or neutral? 'Turn off the turrets first' is not an answer.

Just give up now please, nothing you have said is a solution or helpful, and it isn't simply a case of 'making the game easier for you'- its called FIXING the game by fixing ownership and having sensible turret settings. Just as well you are in the vast, vast minority of people and most players understand the issue and want it properly addressed.

Well i leave you with this cos we just have to agree to disagree but the other reasons i want them left on targeting neutrals is all a player has to do is turn his grids to neutrals and drop it on a players base. and new players will not know about this. just to confirm i logged to a random server so i did not have admin etc and tested this.

This why its been that way or the reasoning behind i been told and seen on Keens live steams in the past.

So untill Keen stop players from doing this Turrets are best left as there are targeting neutrals and it up to the long term players to remember to set up there builds Correctly.

Have a nice day.

"it up to the long term players to remember to set up there builds Correctly."

I'm glad not a single word I've said has sunken in. GG

Anyway, as for making grids neutral to use them as a weapon against newbies- what exactly do you think they will learn from that experience? They will set turrets to target neutrals, but in the mean-time the grids they build without setting ownership, and grids they try to capture will get shot to pieces by their own turrets because target neutrals was turned on by default. Now, imagine target neutrals was turned off by default, their grids and captured ships are safe, and any neutral grid that does fire at them, they will rapidly learn to turn on target neutrals ( all this game needs is a proper single player tutorial, not a bunch of random, out dated and broken ones by keen that they don't keep up to date with patches ).

Easier to learn the easy way than the hard way- something you don't appreciate or understand, but yes, lets agree to disagree, even if you're the sole person that does.

OMG Deja Vu... @ Suicide Neil I had this entire argument with some a$$hat on the old forum that went with almost the exact same feel.

https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/guns-attacking-new-stations.7388843/

Wonder if it's the same guy... nah.

I have read you points but i still disagree my points are sound Logic and in the mean time untill keen stop players from turning over they grids to neutrals and pray on people who are new and may not know about this my View will stay the same. Also i Build/edit lots of NPC's for mods in Creative/Survile mode So i get its annoying when u forget to turn it off.

1 use a script to turn them off or turn target neutrals off

2 Make a blueprint of turrets in off or turn target neutrals "pain for mirror mode" i know

3 build of out range with People not in your factions or placing blueprints from workshop or older blueprints when that ownship bug was around.

4. update older blueprint as this will also fix the issue and other bugs that were around. as what you are talking about is a ownship issue bug.

5 this is a engineering game so in the spirt of Engineering i find ways around problems like this.

And to end this with a quote

With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? ... Zapp Brannigan.

You keep saying 'turn off the turrets', but that isn't the whole problem- the problem is the ownership system is broken, and that is only something Keen can fix. I'm done repeating myself, and indeed, you are about the only person who doesn't understand the larger issue which would indicate that discussing it further is a waste of our time. The solution lies with Keen- your opinions and ideas are entirely meaningless as a result.

To end on a quote:

“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”

― Leo Tolstoy

Then Post an idea for a better factions system and better ownships and i vote and support it.

IMO we are agreeing but from diffrant points of view,,, your logic seem to be i must agree with the Turrets neutral turned off by default idea they for i am not agreeing with the ownship bug ,,,,, ????????

Okay then- the system just needs to default to blocks being owned when they are or were owned to begin with ( re: damaged blocks being repaired and becoming neutral for example ) before they were damaged or repaired. Likewise, pasted-in grids need to default as being owned by a friendly faction member, rather than being neutral or hostile ( unless they were specifically set as hostile as part of a pirate faction for example ).

( There is also the issue of different owners within a faction causing problems with other owners not being able to use or access certain features or blocks- again, relating to an over-complicated ownership system, but that's another issue... )

There, is that good enough? We aren't agreeing at all though- you keep insisting that it is mainly user error, we keep insisting that neutral targets shouldn't be targeted by default, BECAUSE THEY ARE NEUTRAL. You know what neutral means, right? Neutral means not hostile or friendly, which is effectively friendly to all other factions- therefore, neutral factions should not be attacked ( just as you would expect in any kind of war- neutral countries don't attack or help allies and axis forces, they just abstain for fighting ).

This is not rocket science, neutral targets are not hostile, so by default 'target neutrals' should BE TURNED OFF.

If you want me to keep repeating myself, I will, but at this point I'm going to need colouring crayons and glove puppets to make it any easier for you to understand the issue.

What i would like is a better faction system and ownships of blocks to reflect that

Etc ,,,

Peace treaty means Limited Access to Blocks and be friendly to turrets

Neutral means no active Argeement or Seeking attacks but come in range of a base your get shoot. but if a Neutral starts a fight it will auto go to hostile.

hostile or war etc, means both we will hunt you and shoot if you come in range.

boys i'm getting spammed to no avail in my inbox about your feud, please consider talking this out and getting things sorted anywhere else, maybe Discord personal messages could work for you.

just, don't add any more here, it's just a circle-jerk at this point.

Rather than trying to change the actions of others or influence them to do as you wish them to do... wouldn't it just be easier to stop following the thread? Just a thought. Crazy.. I know, but so crazy it just might work. It's all moot anyway... we know that KSH isn't going to do anything about it. Maybe they'll release this QOL content in a DLC, or in their next game.

I join this topic and I have one more similar proposal.It would be good to set the turret's automatic movement to off by default. It annoys me very much when I do not manage to turn it off before the turret makes its first move.

https://forum.keenswh.com/...... is obsolete, use https://support.keenswh.com

[ PURGING INTENSIFIES ]

Please do the number of times I've had my neighbours visit with there brand new truck only for my base turrets to swivel and destroy him in 5 seconds (cause I might have built a new one) much quicker than I can turn them off to say my neighbours hate me would be an understatement

We are just investigating this issue, do you have some example (save file) where we can test our fix?

happened today, was working on a thing in creative and a refinery was neutral, blew up everything.

I'd contact W4sted Space again, get a copy of some of his worlds when he experienced the issues in his various survival series. Might wanna credit those who submit worlds for your testing though, always good to acknowledge people who help improve the game directly or indirectly.

Anyway, it seems like the main part of the issue as stated previously is blocks that are ground down partially and rebuilt show up as neutral- this is especially true when you have multiple team members/factions and someone other than the builder does the grinding & rebuilding.

In creative, I get this type of issue when pasting in a blueprint; the blueprint was made with all blocks owned by me, but when it pastes in the ownership magically becomes set to 'nobody' ( = neutral, as far as turrets are concerned ). if the blueprint doesn't get shot to pieces by other ships already in the world, then it decides to attack them instead since it has no owner and treats them as neutral or enemies essentially, despite everything being built by me...

I believe you have nothing to test. Simply turn off the standard neutral switch of these towers.Signs of drops are also being destroyed for this.

Otherwise known as "Commit War Crimes" as default behaviour.

You know, there is this conspiracy - Keen has it as default so in MP the neutral factions will be forced into action (read: all-out war) from time to time (because somebody will sometimes forget to disable "target neutrals"), so they don't have to add new content ;-)

New server setting: "War Crime Committing Turrets [On]".

They needed a good way to distinguish from enemies ( pirate faction and military ) and general cargo or exploration ships ( encounters? ), so neutral was the solution. Trouble is, neutral grids will happily shoot at you since 'target neutrals' is turned on by default, and as far as the neutral grids are concerned YOU are neutral too unless you 'declare war' or something in order to become an enemy ( so they shoot you regardless ), or try to 'propose peace' which probably won't work since the AI is non-existent on cargo ships and such it will never consider you as friendly.

That's the main issue though ( besides the target neutral one )- the AI on ships is total garbage, they really really really need to talk to Lucas about how he created his various mod packs for dangerous encounters, along with the various other modders that created multiple factions that actually have good AI; flying in a straight line and then despawning is not very entertaining or engaging when it comes to having an 'encounter'.

I hope Keen are paying attention to all these great mods that add life to the game and implement something in the Survival update, whenever that drops...

it also used to be that they would also shoot allied factions with neutrals on, they changed that in roughly august of 2017.

Does anyone know of a script that will set any turrets connected to a base to "Do not target neutrals"?

They already changed it as requested, you're a bit late to the party dude. It wasn't a bug though, you're right on that, but it was silly to have it turned on by default since 'not having turrets at your base' is a ridiculous solution- you need turrets to defend your base, lol. It was also silly because trying to recover neutral grids ( encounters and loot-pods ) resulted in them getting shot to pieces. Like I said though, all of this is old news and has been discussed to death already...

This looks like it was submitted to feedback and not bug reports anyway.

However, if Suicide Neil is correct in that they have fixed this, Keen should close this ticket.

They fixed/changed/implemented a load of stuff in the last update, but haven't updated the status on most of them- someone at KSH needs to be keeping a better eye on things and updating them quicker ( if at all ).

No one who knows what they are doing puts turrets on their base.

Lol, yeah, right- because hopes and dreams will keep away people looking to attack & loot your base- even if it is hidden. You're forgetting the LOD issue that makes hidden bases visible from a distance, so that means you HAVE to defend your base with turrets no matter where you build it. Stop trolling, it's not a good look.

Oh most of what i say is sarcasm, but no really, pvpers dont put turrets on their base, if you get found and you are offline you are already done. Anyone who says otherwise doesnt know what they are doing.

The only defense is hiding and redundancy.

Oh, I know, believe me- I think there are 2 or 3 threads asking for the ability to set target priority- a 'target only X blocks' option in the turret settings is desperately needed. We wont get it, but all the same...

It's worth a try, is there a post I can vote for?

Improved targeting options suggestions:

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/extra-targeting-options-for-turrets

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/specific-turret-target

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/imrove-turrets-targetting-logic

General improvements to the code and AI etc:

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/turret-api-additions

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/dynamic-turret-mgmt-aka-optimize-turrets-plz

Voted