Small Ship Jump Drives

they could still be short range the jump drive doesnt need to be the full 2k kilometers that the large one is, just make it smaller like 75 km max this would be a big enough distance for a miner to jump to a location mine for a bit and jump back so that you dont have to fly it the full 50 km to the astroid that has platinum... you know the one. you could also gif it some advantage over large ship jump drives like making them able to have limited use in atmo and have a shorter recharge so that you can jump into a grav well say to an altitude of 3 km then preform a precision strike on a target then jump out. with these limitation and advantages over a large jump drive it could have some advantages and more while lacking the long range of a large ship jump drive

Meh, I agree with Malware- there is a very good in-universe reason why small grids don't have jump drives, they are meant to be support craft. Giving them similar abilities to large grid ships means there is less of an incentive or reason for building a large ship; you may as well just build a station and jump back and forth with the small grid ship to gather resources.

There are bigger fish to fry when it comes to missing or lacking features when it comes to small and/vs large grids, though some of the ideas have already been shot down by the devs.

If you really want a small grid jump drive, just build a jump ring with large grid blocks and dock the small grid ship to it- there really is nothing to be gained from having a small grid, shorter range jump drive other than reducing the value and importance of building large ships...

Meh, I agree with Malware- there is a very good in-universe reason why small grids don't have jump drives, they are meant to be support craft. Giving them similar abilities to large grid ships means there is less of an incentive or reason for building a large ship; you may as well just build a station and jump back and forth with the small grid ship to gather resources.

There are bigger fish to fry when it comes to missing or lacking features when it comes to small and/vs large grids, though some of the ideas have already been shot down by the devs.

If you really want a small grid jump drive, just build a jump ring with large grid blocks and dock the small grid ship to it- there really is nothing to be gained from having a small grid, shorter range jump drive other than reducing the value and importance of building large ships...

If the small ship jump drive was limited to something in the range of 5-50 km, then it would fill a different role than the large ship jump drive, that does not take the place of the large ship drive, and cannot be achieved through a jump ring. Small ships would maintain a support sort of role, but it would remove the grind of say flying a miner between asteroids, and it would allow for more advanced combat maneuvers.

Large ship can also jump short distances, jump ring attached to small ship can also jump small distances; your argument is invalid, thanks for playing but you go home empty handed.

As for 'combat manoeuvres'- you ain't gonna be jumping 5km away in a small grid fighter, fighters are for dog fighting and strafing runs on slower moving large ships; large ships use jump drives to put distance between themselves and hostiles as they are far more valuable and need to be protected or given time to repair damage etc etc, not something that matters so much with relatively cheap fighters.

If flying between asteroids is a grind- use a jump ring or a large grid ship to jump between asteroids whilst carrying the small miners ( which is exactly the idea behind a mobile refinery and resource gathers in HomeWorld 2, which I replicated in SE ). You wouldn't send out a tiny little miner to jump around all over the place looking for resources, you use a large grid ship to find the resources with its better Ore Detector, then send out the small miner to collect the resources. Or, you just use a large grid miner with a jump drive because small grid miners are slow...

I can see that you have your reasons, but like I said, they aren't all that good and easily dismissed- Keen will never add this functionality as it doesn't fit the universe they've crafted. Heck, they refused to add windows for small grids you got no chance of jump drives.

A small ship jump drive would likely have a shorter minimum range than a large ship jump drive, along with a smaller minimum power input to charge. There are likely many other minor differences that could be made to differentiate them from large ship jump drives, as well.

I feel your ideas for the combat abilities of small ship jump drives are unimaginative, or at least low effort. There are plenty of practical combat applications for combat, and I'm sure there are plenty more that I haven't thought of.

The thing with large grid jump drives is they are very expensive, take a very large amount of power, and have a minimum jump distance. That's not a big problem if you're jumping a large ship between planets or bases, but if you're going for a short mining excursion a few kilometers from base, there's no reason large grids need to be involved. Even if one is using a large grid miner, a large jump drive is arguably ill suited.

You do realise that at 100m/s it only takes 50 seconds to travel the 5km minimum jump distance of a large jump drive; how impossibly impatient must you be, playing a survival game, that waiting 50 seconds to get from point A to point B is too long?

So yes, a small grid jump drive could in principle have an even shorter minimum jump distance; it would take you longer to set up the jump co-ordinates and wait for the count down than it would to just fly to the destination normally.

It's a ridiculous request; the whole point of jump drives being introduced was to make long-distance travel easier and less time consuming ( some of us have been here long enough to remember the game before jump drives )- using jump drives to hop literally a few kilometres out of shear impatience and laziness is comical, the searching around and finding stuff the hard way is what makes the experience- what you sound like you want is a different game to SE. The grind is the game, in survival mode- that's what makes it more rewarding.

As for the tactical aspect- again, it's silly. You can fly out of range at max speed faster than you could waiting for the jump drive to count down, jumping out of range and back in again isn't really gonna help you as chances are half your ship would have been blown off in the first exchange, and how likely are you to repair any kind of real damage, by hand, while being chased by an attacker? Remember, 50 seconds to travel 5km at max speed.

It's comical really- people plan out all these wonderful tactics in their minds, but in reality space battles in SE descend into chaos very quickly as I've seen countless time watching various streams and recordings. When they aren't carefully scripted, your tactics go out the window and you're lucky not to get one-shotted instantly- what good small grid jump drives if your cockpit is gone?

Keen won't give you small grid jumpdrives, give it up and get used to using mods for stuff that doesn't fit in with their vision for the game. The rest of us have- we're just left fighting to convince them that things need fixing at this point...

It may take 50 seconds to travel 5km at 100 m/s, but that's not the point. A miner, especially one loaded down by resources is likely to have pretty poor acceleration, especially when loaded down with resources. This significantly increases travel time, and can make stopping at the end tricky. Of course that could be worked around, but with a jump drive, the whole process can be made significantly easier and simpler, and easier and quicker to automate than merely using autopilot.

Your point about the jump drive animation taking a significant amount of time is a good one, but it could be shortened for the small ship jump drive if need be, to make it more practical.

And again, in the combat examples you mention, a small ship jump drive may not be useful, but there are still examples I can think of, especially in the areas of ambushes or stealth and reconnaissance.

It's almost as though having a large ship parked near by would be useful for when your small miner is full of ore, then you could off-load quickly & easily and get straight back to mining. In your scenario you would need to jump the small ship out to an asteroid ( after finding it first ), mine the ore until full, jump back, offload cargo, wait for jump drive to recharge, then jump back to the asteroid and start mining again- baring in mind you wouldn't have the defense of a large ship if you were surprise-attacked or suffered an accident and the ship became too damaged to fly.

There are plenty of 'you could' or what if' arguments to deal with the hassle of setting up a jump drive in a hurry and escaping before the attackers get in range, but ultimately small ships NEED a large ship and vice-versa, you can't just keep adding items from the small grid mega mod pack as vanilla to get around the way the game is intended to be played.

As for ambushes and stealth- the giant 'STREAMING' message on screen ruins any chances of that, trust me- you ain't gonna jump in and launch a surprise attack, nor are you gonna lie in wait and use the jump drive to escape after attacking. You can easily do both of those things with the aid of a large ship simply by turning off broadcasting so they have no idea you are approaching at sub-light speed unless they manage to spot you in the darkness. There is also the issue of minimum distance from other ships/asteroids etc when you do jump in- it's 1km roughly for large grids, even if they reduced it then there is just as much chance as you getting shot down as them shooting you down due to the streaming issue, and turrets ( defense turrets will nail you if you jump inside of their targeting range before you even get the chance to reorientate your fighter to aim at them ).

Just use the small grid mega mod pack and have fun with it- there are far more important features worth fighting for, this is just a waste of energy and every argument made for the inclusion is easily countered by understanding the way the devs want the game to be played.

It's a sandbox game, it's not designed to be played a certain way. I'm not saying this feuture should be added now, I agree that there are more important things to be worked on, but I still support that this idea has plenty of merit and would like to see it implemented at some point.

Most of the problems you mention can either easily be worked around (like just putting two jump drives on a ship so you don't have to waut for one to recharge), are fun and challenging to work around, or shouldn't be worked around for balance reasons.

They don't have small grid jump drives, hence they want you to use large ships to transport the small ones; ergo, they want to play the game in a certain way- you can circumvent this by using a mod.

Also, yes, they did it this way for balance reasons that shouldn't be worked around in the vanilla game.

Thank you for making my point for me, lol.

The balance reasons can be worked around easy enough, and just because it's not in the game already doesn't mean it shouldn't be in the future. Isn't that the whole point of taking suggestions for feutures to implement into the game?

They aren't gonna change a core game-play mechanic just because a few people can't be bothered to play the way they intended, and/or want a short cut to by-pass the need to build a large ship to carry small ones. Obvious and useful missing features might get added if the devs really want to, superfluous items that people want, won't.

Also, look at all the other ideas that have been declined already and tell me that they don't ignore or decline 'good suggestions'. Not happening, move along.

It's not a core mechanic, it's a supplementary one that enriches gameplay.

It would not bypass the need for large ships.

It is a sandbox game, the whole point is to not have a set way to play it.

I'm not trying to say it's likely that it will be added, or that it's better than other ideas which have not been added, but I will continue to support the possibility of its implementation.

You're really bad at this, you might wanna give up sooner rather than later:

It is a core mechanic, since without jump drives it would take days or weeks of real-time to travel between planets; that's why jump drives were added at the same time as planets.

It would 100% bypass the need for large ships since only large ships have jump drives- the only alternative is a large-grid jump ring as I've stated previously. You could have a fixed station to process collected ore if you had small grid jump drives ( instead of doing the processing on a mobile large ship ), but it still cancels out the need for large grid ships and their jump drives to transport the smaller ships to distant asteroids and such.

It is a sand box game, yes, but without mods you cannot have small grid jump drives- what you are asking is for a mod that fundamentally alters a core mechanic of the game to be made vanilla. It's not about having a set way of playing the game, but there are certain unavoidable obstacles that cannot be engineered around without using mods.

I feel you are missing the entire point of what I am suggesting. Small ship jump drives would play a vastly different role in gameplay than large ship ones would. It's not messing with or circumventing the uses of large ship jump drives.

If someone wanted to do the same things as a large ship jump drive, it would be far easier and more efficient to just use the rotor trick or a jump ring like you mention than a ton of small ship jump drives. The point of a small ship jump drive would not be to cut down on travel time over large distances like the large ship jump drive does, but to add more flexibility and usefulness to small ships over much shorter distances.

'Over much shorter distances' you don't need a jump drive, for reasons already explained; what if they did add small grid jump drives but they had the same limitations as large grid ones pretty much? Would you start another suggestion thread demanding more changes to shorten the recharge time/ minimum distance/ shape or size of the jumpdrive etc etc?

Deal with the problem you have by engineering around it ( just use a jump ring, for example ), or use mods and understand there are too many variables for the devs to keep everyone happy.

Again, you seem to be completely missing what I am saying.

Nope, you just can't accept the simple reason why certain blocks only exist for large grids. If you don't accept the way the game is intended to be played, use mods.

Again, you seem to have missed what I was saying. I do accept why certain blocks are only available for large grids, but I still feel a small ship jump drive would be a worthy edition to the game and fill a very different role than the large ship jump drive, perhaps to the point where it would warrant a different name.

Just because the only uses you can see for it is as a small scale jump drive doesn't mean that that is the role it would fill.

Lol. A jump drive is a jump drive- it's role is to take you from point A to point B instantaneously- there is no other role it serves, giving it a different name won't change that fact. What you do when you get to Point B or your reason for wanting to go there is irrelevant and besides the point- the Jump Drive is the tool that takes you there, that's it.

Good day sir.

Ah yes, just like just like how there's no difference between the roles of an airliner and a cessna or a semi truck and race car.

We're not talking about the vehicle as a whole, we're talking about a component, a component that Keen have deemed isn't required on small grids as they are intended for fairly short-range use, hence why the component is only available for large grids ( just like refineries, assemblers, control seats and such ).

Got any other easily defeated arguments you'd like to try using?

The lack of a component in the game does not mean it has been deemed unnecessary, just that it at least isn't high priority.

And my analogy holds true for just about any component of the vehicles I mentioned. For example, compare the engine of a racecar to that of a semi truck. They may do essentially the same thing, but they have fundamentally different roles.

No, they do the same thing and have exactly the same role- to move the vehicle from point A to point B, how they do it is the only difference ( one is designed to do it quickly at the expense of engine longevity, the other is designed to do it whilst hauling large loads which requires more torque and less speed ).

Give up, seriously.

It seems you missed the word "role." A racecar engine can not be used to fulfill a semitruck engine's role, and a semitruck engine cannot fill a racecar engines role.

They may do the same thing on the surface, but merely moving something from point a to point b is not the same thing. By that logic, the Saturn V rocket preforms the same role as a skateboard.

Agreed. I think it would ruin the balance if small ships could have jump drives. It would also remove the need for making "Carriers" for fleets of small ships.

That would only be the case is small ship jump drives were comparable to large ship ones. If small ship jump drives had a much much shorter range than large ship ones then it wouldn't defeat the need of carriers, or make large ships too powerful, just more flexible in their use.

Your analogies are TERRIBLE.

This is Space Engineers- there is only one thing you can do with a Jump drive and that is jump a ship from one place to another, in space. Trying to compare a skate board to a space rocket is utterly fallacious and not even remotely valid as a comparison. HOW YOU USE THE SHIP WHEN YOU GET TO POINT B is besides the point, HOW YOU GET THERE is what matters, and the devs want you to get there by using a large grid ship as a carrier, that's why they never gave us the option of a small grid jump drive to start with.

Likewise, I understand why they won't give us small grid glass ( or doors, or control seats etc ) because they never intended for people to build small ships with interiors, they want us to use cockpits in smaller craft, not 'small ships gone wild' as it were. It's a shame but we understand because that's not how they intended us to build small craft.

Get over it, and give up making the same argument over and over and over- I've destroyed your argument so many times I can only assume at this point you enjoy being ridiculed or something, it's getting weird now. You can't come up with anything better, and you can't since there is nothing else to argue for including them. Deal with it, use jump rings or mods.

GOOD DAY SIR.

I agree that comparing a space rocket to a skateboard is very fallacious, which was the entire point of the comparison. A skateboard gets you from point A to point B. A rocket gets you from point A to point B. But they both serve entirely different roles. How you can understand that, but not understand that just because a block gets you from point A to point B doesn't necessarily mean it serves the same role as a different block that transports you from point A to point B is beyond me.

I have tried to be cordial with you thus far, but frankly it seems your entire argument hinges on a lack of imagination, and a hopelessness in the devs.

They are the same block though, that's the point- you keep insisting they are somehow different just because one is large grid and one is small. You are utterly incapable of understanding why there isn't a small grid version and keep insisting it is somehow magically different. It does serve the same role, that is beyond contestation.

You claim I have a lack of imagination yet I've built the largest ships in the game and some with complex mechanisms; you are the one with the lack of imagination if all you want is a small grid jump drive to make playing the game easier and less challenging in terms of engineering around the issue at hand.

Don't get me wrong though, it would be a nice block / feature to have, just like lots of 'useful' blocks would be- I'm just smart enough to understand why they aren't included and never will be. I'm also mature enough to deal with it instead of arguing myself down to a single point that is then defeated instantly by explaining why the devs didn't include it ( about ten times ).

Yeah, sorry no. Neil you're wrong on this: There are many reasons why small grid craft should be able to fast travel.

Every sci-fi universe that has small craft capable of ftl travel ALSO has carriers.

Small grid craft with Jump drives will not destroy the utility of large grid ships.

Keens philosophy of this being a Sandbox game means they do not want to limit play but ensure it is as broad as possible.

The whole point of submitting ideas is to add/change something so appealing to how it currently is, is fallacious in this context.

Where I think you're right is that despite the merits of this idea, it requires doing small conversion math, so will be declined by KSH ala "We have no plans to implement this" (so why suggest ideas that they aren't already considering then?). In the end the argument is pointless for either side.

Guess what, SE isn't any of those franchises. I never said they shouldn't add them, I simply stated ( a dozen times ) that I understand why they aren't; there are just as many sci-fi franchises that have small ships that aren't ftl capable- your argument there is a bit:

That wasn't the argument Neil. Try again.

It was- it was exactly what you said; you claim there are lots of reasons for small ships to fast travel, then offered only one reason ( which is because some sci-fi franchises have that 'feature' ). If you'd like to actually offer some reasons besides 'tactics', 'stealth' and 'can't be bothered to build a carrier', I'm all ears.

I already destroyed the notion of tactics and stealth ( see: streaming message, also small grids being made of tissue paper ), the only real reason I can see is purely for fun or time saving, and that's something you can achieve with a jump ring made from a large grid jump drive.

No, you have completely failed to destroy the notion of tactics and stealth. You just admitted they would be fun, useful, and time saving, which is pretty much the point of adding a block to a game. A jump ring like you suggest can't even come close to what a small ship jump drive could be capable of if it was implemented well. Your entire argument seems to hinge on you seeing yourself as smart and having spent a lot of time in the game.

This isn't supposed to be some competition like you seem to make it out to be, it's supposed to be an exchange of ideas and suggestions, not "I don't agree so you must be wrong so give up."

Now, I will say this yet another time. Just because something does a very similar thing to something else does not necessarily mean they fill the same role, especially if they are done on vastly different scales. It's trivial to see examples of such in everyday life, like a flashlight bulb and indicator LED. Both emit light when you run electric current through them, but neither could serve the other's purpose.

Again, no. That wasn't a list of reasons. They were rebuttals to all the other arguments made against. If you need reasons, then try: all the reasons why large grids have a Jump Drive apply to Small Grids.

As to your jump ring concept, it is your idea and may not be a solution anyone else wants to use, and more importantly, shouldn't be forced to as:

a) it is way to expensive in materials for small grid applications

2) it would be a hassle to use as it would greatly hinder the crafts maneuverability if permanently attached, or would be too expensive a detachable part to just leave lying around otherwise

If by jump ring you mean something similar to Stargates then I'd be surprised considering that would be a total departure from in world design policy.

Burstar- you're out of your depth and jumping into a conversation without having bothered to read the previous posts thoroughly; come back when you have. You still haven't provided a valid reason for having small grid jump drives btw, all you've done is totally ignore why small grid jump drives don;t exist to start with, in the context of the SE 'universe'.

FireContrived- it's almost as though being smart and experienced in the game is somehow a bad thing in your view, it's very telling by your lack of experience that you want to fundamentally change how the game is designed in order to suit your lower skill level, hmm.

It's also amusing that you say "I don't agree so you must be wrong so give up"- that's exactly the same thing you've been doing all along; I point out the flaws in your rational, so you repeat those flaws again and insist they are valid reasons for wanting small jumpdrives.

Anyway, it's all entirely pointless arguing about it- I understand why we don't have them, the devs do too obviously, and whether we want X, Y & Z added depends on whether it will conflict with the narrative of the game; I think small jump drives will, you guys don't- it's the devs to decide.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go bash my head against a wall because the new blueprints menu is broken; maybe the devs will change that too if we argue enough... -_-

I never meant to imply being smart or experienced with the game is a bad thing, but alone it does nothing to validate your points.

For the last several replies, essentially all I have been stating is the painfully obvious fact that you seem to keep rejecting for seemingly no reason.

(Unrelated to the this conversation, but I also find the new blueprint screen to be far slower and inconvenient to use than before.)

Nice try Neil, but I've given you all the reasons why and specifically addressed the only issue really brought up: That they aren't large grids, already. You're, erm, unwillingness to acknowledge that is not my problem.

Bottom line: there's no reason to force someone who wants to fly small grids to take the long way other than 'that's how it's currently done', and that is insufficient in mine, and many others, opinion.

Have fun bashing your head against a wall. I hope it helps.

"For the last several replies, essentially all I have been stating is the painfully obvious fact that you seem to keep rejecting for seemingly no reason."

"I understand why we don't have them, the devs do too obviously, and whether we want X, Y & Z added depends on whether it will conflict with the narrative of the game; I think small jump drives will, you guys don't- it's the devs to decide."

See, if only you were capable of making this civil point 10 posts ago without resorting to verbal diarrhea. The problem is there is no 'narrative' of the game. It's a sandbox. That's what you fail to comprehend. SE is the tool to allow the player to make their own narrative, not the one you 'understand' as the right one, and being forced to take the long way until you have a crap ton of resources may not be part of that narrative for a lot of people.

You are forced to do it that way though, that's the limitation of vanilla ( = narrative, as such )- if you don't want to, use mods. The devs WANT to limit how you play the game in some aspects because it encourages creativity, not taking short cuts. If you don't like grinding for resources, then a survival game is maybe not your type of game...

Also, yes, jump drives are only large grids- I have no idea what you're trying to say but you've said nothing at all to explain why they should be made into small grids other than they aren't currently; firecontrived has tried but failed to make a convincing argument for me. You need to actually give some good reasons other than 'I want small versions, because some sci-fi franchises do it that way'- don't keep saying you have when you haven't at all. I'll reinforce that point thusly:

"Yeah, sorry no. Neil you're wrong on this: There are many reasons why small grid craft should be able to fast travel."

Ok, let's hear it.

"Every sci-fi universe that has small craft capable of ftl travel ALSO has carriers."

And? As I already said, there are just as many that don't use that mechanic as such- invalid argument.

"Small grid craft with Jump drives will not destroy the utility of large grid ships."

Not entirely, but it will allow you to bypass the need for building larger craft to transport the small ships that are intended to be support craft that need the protection of the larger ship.

"Keens philosophy of this being a Sandbox game means they do not want to limit play but ensure it is as broad as possible."

He says, while ignoring the reason why there are no small jump drives and demanding changes to how they intend the game to be played, uh-hu.

"The whole point of submitting ideas is to add/change something so appealing to how it currently is, is fallacious in this context."

It is not fallacious to understand the devs vision and accept it- the kind of changes we NEED are fixes to broken features and polish basically- there are a few missing armour blocks for example, there is a real need for better vanilla weapons given how large ships are being built and how cripplingly limited the default weapons are, a tiered approach to thrusters or simply increasing their power would give greater freedom to building- you know, sensible stuff. Polish first, pandering later :)

"firecontrived has tried but failed to make a convincing argument for me." Nice to see the presence of that 'for me.' It helps restore my faith that it might be possible to reason with you. So far, most of your comments have been about the use of jump drives in your playstyle. This is some of the first acknowledgment I've seen from you that a small ship jump drive may be more useful for different people's playstyles.

Neil, just think about what I've said instead of reading the words and saying "I don't see what you mean". That's how proper communication works. I'll try the Socratic method:

Neil, why should large grids have jump drives?

No FireContrived, that's not it at all- it's nothing to do with MY playstyle, it's nothing to do with reasoning with ME- you're appealing to the wrong person. You need to understand why the devs didn't include them, I've been explaining why but you don't want to listen, that's all it is.

Burstar- I've read what you wrote and you haven't said anything for me to understand, you just keep making one flawed argument and I keep on pointing out it's flawed; you need to understand why its flawed, I can't help you with that sorry.

Why should large grids have jump drives? I've already answered that; because it would take days or weeks of real-time to travel between planets otherwise. Small grid jump drives wouldn't be designed for doing that journey ( according to what firecontrived is saying, based on his desires for the new block ), hence all they woudl really be used for is very short range time saving while mining or speeding up the process of getting shot to pieces since small grids are made of tissue paper.

Any other flawed arguments you wish to make that I can destroy for you?

The devs haven't added them because they're are other things with higher priority. There may be other reasons, but I have yet to hear you say any that I haven't refuted. All your reasoning for why they haven't been added are all about them not being a worthy edition to the vanilla game the way YOU play it. You seem to have gone back to not acknowledging that this game is designed to encourage creativity and diverse playstyles, despite explicitly giving that as a reason to not add small ship jump drives.

Just because you are incapable of seeing the validity of an argument doesn't make it flawed. #mindblown

You keep relying on the 'that's how the dev's did it, so that's enough' and we've already stated, multiple times, this is an insufficient argument. The dev's also decided that pressurization wasn't worthy of vanilla implementation until they changed their minds. That's the whole point. We get they went one way. We're arguing to change it. How is this too difficult to grasp?

"And? As I already said, there are just as many that don't use that mechanic as such- invalid argument."

Wrong. The point was to show that a world with small jump drives does not negate the need for carriers.

"it will allow you to bypass the need for building larger craft"

'Allow', what a pleasant word. Something conducive to enjoyable gameplay for so many people. Hunh.

You say I'm 'ignoring the reason' when I've just shown a valid rebuttal to it. This is why I'm saying you're not listening.

"Why should large small grids have jump drives? I've already answered that; because it would take days or weeks of real-time to travel between planets otherwise"

Thanks for agreeing that I gave you the reason why small grids should have jump drives. Firecontrived's insecurities regarding small jump drive applications are not my concern here. I feel that the drive should scale with relative power, range vs. weight math. The game balance is solved by the small size of the ships. What you can do and carry with small grids is already much less, so we're arguing how much time should a player have to waste to do so much less than one could in a large grid. A gameplay issue, not a narrative one.

"It is not fallacious to understand the devs vision and accept it". Wrong. We've lived the 'Dev's vision' and by definition this idea shows we do not accept it, so to keep arguing to it is invalid reasoning.

I've clearly shown that Small JD's would not ruin the usefulness of large grid ships, and that having SJD's would improve gameplay by removing an unnecessary time sink. You have just said 'muh mods or because devs'.

That's how you destroy an, I'll be generous here, 'argument'.

That said, I think we both can agree that this idea should take a back seat to other more important ideas for the Dev's to decline.

You made two assumptions and ignored the fact I've already said it's plainly obvious why they didn't include them from the start, then you concluded my reasoning was due to how I play the game, ignoring that it's how the devs want to to play the game, hence THEIR DECISION TO NOT INCLUDE THEM. Then you insist the devs want us to use creativity, so long as that creativity aligns with your ideas and desires, while ignoring the obvious statement about engineering around the lack of small grid jump drives.

Well done, GG, amazing reasoning skills you have there. I'm done here, it's like talking to a brick wall- if I have to listen to a 12 year old try and use the same failed arguments for the hundredth time I'm gonna say something unkind and get myself banned, so you keep telling yourself you know best and ignore anyone who points out you don't know why the devs made the game the way they did.

Then entire point of this system is to suggest new feutures for the game. Do you realize how it sounds to say we shouldn't suggest new feutures because they aren't already in the game, hence the sandbox game which encourages creativity and diversity is not meant to be played like that? Sure having no small ship jump drives creates a problem to engineer around, but you could make that argument for every single block in the game, the fact is just because it makes certain things easier doesn't mean it doesn't add more depth and opportunity for creativity.

And what assumptions did I make?

Because you like how the Dev's do things and memes so much.

The BSG raptor is the reason i want this. Im a replica builder but my raptor has less use because of the lack of small ship jump drives

yes but this is actually something usefull it doesnt have to be big or powerfull just enough to have a small mining ship jump say 50 km to a nearby astroid with alot of one recource mine for a bit while it recharges then jump back, or have a fighter that can jump into a combat senario then quickly jump out, the jumpdrive can be powerfull enough to carry a small ship a decent distence say 50-150 km ( a far cry from the standard 2000 km on a regularly sized jumpdrive) but it could recharge quicker and use less power giving said ship a ability to get from point A to point B in a relitivly localized aria and giving you minor jump capability. you could also give it the advantage ov being able to jump somewhat inside a gravity well and jump out anywhere in a gravity well this way you can preform presicion fighter/bomber runs and get out of there quickly. upside it is a great tool for local travel and is cheap FTL, downside- it has a stupid low jump range that at best can only travel 100 km away and still needs room for all the stuff you would need to take with you which would lower the range.

So why not have a Small ship version . Its not like balance matters in this game when you can just do it anyway with a large ship one. The reason i want a small ship one is so i can fit it into my Raptor so it is realistic to the series. Just half the resource cost and half the range ( or even less) i dont care. i just want the ability to jump a small distance for cinematic purposes and recon ability.

This games a sandbox its not built around needing to be balanced because you are not being balanced against a end game since the game doesnt have one. i just want to have fun without needing to slap a jump drive bigger than my ship so i can make it true to the show.

Jump gates would be awesome, though they would need to be semi-modular in order to allow different sizes to be built ( straight sections and corner pieces ). When activated, they would have glowing elements and an opaque or mirror-like surface would appear ( something like in HomeWorld or The Expanse )- activation would be as simple as having a jump gate control block built on a ship- fly through the gate with the control block turned on and a distance or destination set.

Never gonna happen, but we can dream...