Simple Rail System (Rail Block/Train Block)

DIO_SVK shared this feedback 3 years ago
Submitted

Simple linear moving block within straight line.

Like in Source engine func_tracktrain that follow path_track entity.

In SE the Blast block (the pointy one) can act as Rail block (path_track) and the block that is inverted to that pointy blast block (not in SE) can act as TrainBlock (func_tracktrain).

All that pointy blast block in straight line can represent "rail" and first and last will be "start keyframe" and "end keyframe".

Then this line can act and tell the train block, how long it is. Count how many of the Rail blocks (pointy blast block) are there, so the train block can move within that line.

As Piston is already doing his but in limited distance, i do not get why this it is not in SE already.


With this Rail Block/Train Block you can do easy elevators/hangar_doors just by telling the distance to the TrainBlock and it will go there like piston head do.

Comments (2)

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If "rail" (Pointy blast block in straight line) is damaged or cut half, the Trainblock (or elevator/lift block) ask at current position how long is the rail to again determinate the Start keyframe and End Keyframe. It will act like piston that is configurable by length of rail

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Why not just have a winch system or such?Since most survival games for people who wish for a "True survival" experience start on a planet this would allow for less expensive and more compact solutions for early and possible late game transport and storage. They could even be used in space for things such as attaching to wreckage and winching it into a grinder bay or to partially tow an asteroid using two ships for mild impulse to get it to a station or planet with them using it to control the descent of the asteroid. In some cases where people want to drop a smallish rover on the planet to find a place to make a base it would be simpler to use this to lower the rover rather than a complex rotor/piston contraption. We could even implement a basic algorithm that determines whether or not it breaks from someone flying into it or it being over loaded, such as it being an A to B connection that detects if a block is in the way and if there is one then it does a small query for the speed of that blocks grid and if its over lets say 20 m/s (72 km/h) it disconnects from the subgrid. And if the cargo attached by ropes is spinning or something (I assume that you are going to be transporting a grid of 5 blocks at a minimum cause who wants to transport a single armor block? It seems silly.) you can add more ropes and if that fails make a wider carrier arm.

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Winch and rope will not work in zero gravity as i say in Winch Block idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXoNMYDvPHM&feature=youtu.be&t=40s

Winch Block idea: https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/winch-block#comment-2923


Why i forcibly complicate my build with all that thrusters and energy spend to stabilize that stupid cargo ball on rope to forbid the loosing the tension on it? hmm.... It is simpler and less expensive (performance friendly) when i directly glue it to the ship with the magnetic landing gear or some huge pliers. Actually "havok physics" used in SE is not suitable for the any kind of pliers idea.

If you want realistic rope simulation (with all that physical bending altering the shape) == Forget it

None of today HW or CPU out there is able to handle this kind of realistic rope simulation.

And if you do not know, SE game engine is having problems with simple tasks already!


Keen will not add something that will just make it worse. Really SE needs more nails to the coffin...

The de-sync issue in the Multiplayer of this thing will be nightmare..

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Wow impressive, It looks like you read the first sentence of my comment and copy pasted what you had commented on the other page. Try reading this fully first please. It almost seems like you still use the I'm right, you’re wrong and if you don't agree with me I will insult your intelligence approach. Hilariously enough we actually still use rope in space, there is in fact was a special compartment used on the space shuttle for snatch blocks which where used to anchor astronauts to cables and to create pulleys to move large items such as satellites and the Hubble space telescope when precision greater than the CanadaArm could provide was needed. Also at .no point did I say you couldn’t use the landing gear for solid transport as in fact that is what would be the smartest choice to prevent accidental loss of cargo however, in most cases ships are not big enough to contain an asteroid or meteor inside of a cargo bay and in most cases would lack the raw power needed in which case two smaller and subsequently cheaper ships could be used to create a mild impulse to accelerate an asteroid to a jolly 5m/s and slow it down after as unless your inertia dampeners are on if you stop applying thrust you will coast along at the same speed and as such the rock will as well. This is also an advantage for if you have a planetary base as they can slow the boulder down to place in your mining pit. On top of which as I had previously go over before in my comment you evidently did not read and in several comments in the other forum I noticed. You dont need some overly complex system to control your cargo ball as all you need is a carrier bar or cross carrier bar which is used in some construction sites. To further rehash my ignored statements, since most of us are smart and start on planets where we can at least immediately start a basic base rather than with nothing in space, some of us would need a system that is cheaper and more compact that rotor and piston cranes and piston and rotor elevators. To even further rehash myself a basic algorithm to sever the “psuedorope or psuedocable” could be used, it is basically a rod that is pivotable only at point A and point B with it ignoring blocks of the same grid or sub-grid within the 180 degree view of its face and “breaking” if another independent grid obstructs it at sufficient speed (basically the laser antenna but using a physical connection between grids). This method is used in many games and miraculously its capable of being run by all but the most basic of computers.

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Space Engineers Is Space Sim NOT Planet sim.

Planets was NOT planed and was added as modders mess with game and cry on forums.


For your useless wall of text == Your mind is thinking with Gravity in game that was made purposely without it.


If you want ropes so badly

One player make proof of concept with MOD == Conveyor Hinges made by Digi.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1815824812


As he states "Yes it eats SE simulation performance a lot. :P"


Witch means that game engine is NOT suitable for rope physics and even i know that using multiple rotor heads (havoc attachment point) is big performance hit.


Rotors are just Static model with havoc attachment point for another grid that follows this point.

You can attach even small ship to big rotor if you want and know how.


That Game engine have many problems that are still not fixed and people like YOU want MORE BUGS!!!

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BTW as i see Winch block was Declined by game devs.

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/winch-block#comment-2923


So Stop Trolling other people Ideas!

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"Space Engineers Is Space Sim NOT Planet sim.

Planets was NOT planed and was added as modders mess with game and cry on forums."

Despite as you saying planets not being "planned" (They might have been but where put on the back burner while bugs were fixed) They are here now and most people start on them for survival.

"For your useless wall of text == Your mind is thinking with Gravity in game that was made purposely without it."

I see you failed to read my comment again. Astonishingly you can use ropes and cables in a vacuum with no gravity by using something called "thrust" and "inertia" Also there is a block in-game called a gravity generator.


"If you want ropes so badly

One player make proof of concept with MOD == Conveyor Hinges made by Digi.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1815824812


As he states "Yes it eats SE simulation performance a lot. :P""This mod which I have did barely anything to affect my computers performance and is a rotor block which is being told to behave differently than normal,

"Witch means that game engine is NOT suitable for rope physics and even i know that using multiple rotor heads (havoc attachment point) is big performance hit."1. Its spelled "which"

2. I currently have a massive mobile drilling rig with a deployable mast and it uses pistons and rotors galore yet it: A. runs smoothly

B.doesn't cause clang

C. is probably the smoothest running machine I've built thus far


"Rotors are just Static model with havoc attachment point for another grid that follows this point.

You can attach even small ship to big rotor if you want and know how."

The correct term is "subgrid" and amazingly enough I am running a subgrid thats on several other subrids and each one is a rotor or piston yet everything is fine.


"That Game engine have many problems that are still not fixed and people like YOU want MORE BUGS!!!"

it is basically a rod that is pivotable only at point A and point B with it ignoring blocks of the same grid or sub-grid within the 180 degree view of its face and “breaking” if another independent grid obstructs it at sufficient speed


I dont see this as being hard to accomplish nor as a huge bug causer


BTW as i see Winch block was Declined by game devs.


Yes and the reason is people like you who see something get an idea in their head about said thing and think everyone else is wrong, If you where to read some of the comments others posted before attacking them with half baked theories and strawman methods you might have seen several solutions as we never asked for a "realistic" rope we just wanted a rigid point A to B connection that we could extend and contract

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I do not understand, why you need to push blindly your vision...

Ah... i see you are just troll that Joined: 4 days ago that cannot deal with Winch block was Declined by game devs so you are here to de-rail topic and provoke other people.


I will not argue with your text wall of nonsense as you repeatedly failed to understand other people opinion and pushing your idea instead.


Be a good kid and submit your own idea and then see if people really like that...

Or you are unable to do so? yes as you are just bored child that cry as Winch block was Declined.


Also Last warning, if you not stop i will report your profile to devs. Not first troll that will be banned even from here.

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I joined 5 days ago because I found this site 5 days ago.

I keep pushing because you refuse to even consider that others ideas may work and you shit all over people who are attempting to refine ideas to make them work, next time someone has an idea rather than trying to tear it down and go I'm right your wrong try and come up with a solution like me and several others have (You dont know about these apparently because you see that we commented and blindly reply)

Ironically enough I dont need to submit my own because any idea I've had has already been had by someone else so I instead support them.


"Or you are unable to do so? yes as you are just bored child that cry as Winch block was Declined.


Also Last warning, if you not stop i will report your profile to devs. Not first troll that will be banned even from here."

Or you are unable to do so? yes as you are just bored child that cry as Winch block was Declined.


1.I am not a troll I posted a honest opinion that you then blew into this massive all out war between us2.It would be amazing f there was a more evident way of suggesting something but as far as I can see there is nowhere I can suggest an Idea but I have the feeling if I were to post it you would look for it and then try and shut it down because you think I'm wrong, theoretically you could be considered a troll by that description.

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"I will not argue with your text wall of nonsense as you repeatedly failed to understand other people opinion and pushing your idea instead."


examples of you pushing your ideas on people


you are both (GrindyGears, domingo) pig-headed and blind. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km-vj6f3TPo

Game engine is unable to simulate "realistic rope simulation" like in video and it will just add more issues than one benefit.

No Keen will NOT add something like this... (it will just add 1000+ more bugs to the game).


Even having the rope just "simple two point connection that can change distance" (most of games use this technique). That technique is only used where gravity is involved, otherwise it will just broke immersion, as you can pass over the rope without bending it, just fly over it. Domingo please go educate your self, as i see, you have no idea about environment of zero gravity and void space.

Have nice day you two :D and keep dreaming about thing that has no point being added.

Ropes are uselles in space


Ropes and Cables are good only in the gravity field, where the gravity always "tension the connection". Sorry but in space, they will be kinda useless, as you have nothing that will do the tension of the rope/cable. From the compute side, ropes are too heavy for physic engine... (if you want to simulate bending of the rope by the other ship that accidentally cross the rope).

In Garry's mod you have ropes/cables but the physic simulation is only done for start point and end point of rope. Rope you see it is just illusion, as you can pass over the rope without being cut in half.

If you do not get it Space Engineers is SPACE exploration/build sim, not Planet sim. Planets are just "addition" and i now know why Keen hate that idea of adding them...

Man like having the knowledge of altering the gravity (gravity generators, artificial mass, space ball) and someone want to still use ropes... He will look like ancient ape compared to people of that era. I assume you still travel on horse to the work, not by the car don't ya?


Sorry to break your illusions, but keep dreaming about your "ropes". Keen will never add something that will potentially add thousands of issues than one benefit (bugs=1000/1=Benefit) to already over bugged game. Adding something like this will be like throwing napalm to already burning village...


You can handle stuff more effectively with ion based tow ships that have magnetic landing gears or build a forklift on "planets" You really do not need ropes, they are "obsolete" in that era.

Next time try considering someone slses perspective

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I do not see any problem with my explanation why rope will be never added, that you Copy Pasta here.


GrindyGears, domingo and YOU are that type: Thinking with gravity in game that was made purposely without it.

Keen will never add something that will potentially add thousands of issues than one benefit (bugs=1000/1=Benefit) to already over bugged game. Adding something like this will be like throwing napalm to already burning village...


If you cannot understand (even with copy-pasta my explanation from different idea) why rope will be NEVER added it is only your problem. :D


I will not feed the evident TROLL YOU ARE that just comment (OFF-TOPIC) only on my idea with 15 up-votes.

Go trolling someone else idea you poor child. :)

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This only prove you failed to read my comments as I have l;listed a great man things that rope can be used for without gravity,I have listed several ways this could be implemented and on top of all of this you seem to think that you are A. A game developer yourself. Or B: that you have some sort of direct tie to one of the devs of the game.

But since you OH so dearly wish to return to your topic lets do that.

You are suggesting a rail system yes? okay Lets start with what you list as havoc physics(subgrids) In order for your Idea to work It would require a subgrid to move independently of the main grid and this brings into account the 2 main sources of most piston and rotor issues that people say are bugs: Hitbox collisions and Friction.

Lets start with Hitboxes shall we? We already have piston and surprisingly rotor elevators and while yes your "rails" could make it easier to build this without doing a fairly simple task of designing some extra space below floor level for the pistons to retract to this would fail to fix the issue of hitbox collisions as unless you have some fashion of telling the "trainblock_Entitiy" to lock into position it will need consistent force to hold itself in position, however as most elevators or carts or any construct in space engineers will never be similar outside of copy pasting the amount of force will vary wildly and will usually result with the person attempting to figure out the correct amount through trail and error. This will usually result in the force being set to much higher than it needs to be and this results in a minute force being exerted the entire time and since as you keep saying like a broken record despite the fact it's happened (I will be more correct in my description) it is a realistic space simulation of the solar system. Thats where the realistic factor comes to a halt however. I should not need to go over this as I assume you've played and know about things like gravity generators. But as you consistently keep repeating we are in space (however we are also on planets alot. But as you say we are in SPACE where there is no GRAVITY so as a result the elevator will need force everted downwards as well to keep it in position (If you say that "Oh we can just put down gravity generators" suddenly winches are usable again) this will result in another force being exerted that is unnecessary. both of these can invoke what most players refer to as "Klang" the sudden bugging out of the physics engine due to something it cannot process properly and trying to correct it to disastrous and sometimes hilarious results. This is why pistons and rotors are feared, User error. But such is not all cases.

However we want to stay on topic right? Back to pulling this apart and explaining how it won't work.

(Gee this sounds familiar!)

Lets start on friction next this should be easy: You have a 5 meter cubed block of I am assuming solid steel, okay are you still following?

Now what happens when we try moving something that big against something the same size or bigger?

Depending on size, shape and/or pressure (weight) friction will either increase or decrease exponentially. But OH right we are in space! Okay then we will use the pressure of subgrid displacement instead this still results in friction which usually halts most contraptions in their tracks (Pun may have been intended) and as a result most players dont realize why their pistons or rotors suddenly stopped and think they may not have had a high enough torque/impulse force and so they increase this force until we meet our dear friend Klang. usually this is around a 40/60 chance with us meeting Klang being the 40 chance. But thats right its rails! so therefore we wont have someone who knows nothing about how they work making the stricture in an area too small for what is needed for the structure to work in.

Length: This is where pistons reign supreme all pistons extend 10 meters resulting in a total length of 15 meters so If I need a long extending or moving structure that goes beyond the boundaries of my vessel or base then I can use pistons for this however say I want a moving platform such as a moving access dock in a hangar. Oh wait that already been done! with rotors and pistons. Rails are good for a specific distance that never will need to change I can think of this being used in something like a weapons pylon on the underside of attack craft wings allowing them to be pulled into the craft for reloading and for docking if the wings move.

Now here is where you and I differ I actually attempt to find ways to fix the issues I put in: So I will give an example to counter the force you could add an extra bit of code that while forcing two "train_Entity" to be on each track will allow us to remove the persistent force by adding several strings of code that detect the direction of movement and designating the first (I will from this point refer to the first "train_Entity along the rail as "Train_Fore" and the second as "Train_Aft". I will also refer to the end rail block in front of the "car" (moving structure mounted on rails) as "Track_End" and the last rail block behind the "car" as "Track_Start" this code will detect the initial movement and assign the direction as "train_move" and it simply states the "Train_Entities are going in this direction relative to the main grid. the "car will continue movement along the rails until "Train_Fore" passes "Track_End" at which point the "car stops movement and acts like it is a separate grid entirely that has been locked in place by connectors.This will remain the case until the "car" is issued the reverse command and the "car searches for the first possible move that results in "Train_Aft" being on "Track_Start" This also determines "Train_Move".


One last thing in this comment you no doubts will not read but I'm sure the moderators will dont care if I am called a troll but I do however have a significant issue with people deciding that they are right no matter what and deciding that someone making a comment on a post not knowing that there was another post about that subject and then deciding to blow it out of proportion.


I lied there is one more thing "Do Not Ever Assume Anything About Anyone Online. Ever"

Do not assume my:

Race

Gender

Age

Religion

or any of the several hundred things people assume about others.

I am not a child, and from what I have gathered from this hilarious attempt to prove me wrong by using strawman methods and attacking unrelated subjects, is that I apparently know more about astrodynamics, the forces of inertia, gravity and thrust, and that you are a very very poor loser that resorts to personally attacking people when you start losing ground and seems to think that you know better than anyone else. Get your head out of that imaginary palace and look at the facts:

Yes space engineers is a space sim but space involves planets and asteroids and moons.

It is in fact possible to use cables in space in many ways (like using them to pull a large piece of wreckage into a hangar bay or grinder pit for people who run ion scavenger ships that dont use hydrogen and dont have enough power for small maneuvering ships to move the wreckage)

and despite being in this far fetched future where we can manipulate gravity we still use levers for heavy tasks which are old fashioned and as such using a winch and possibly pulley system to pull objects in without the need for a massive piston arm or to use as them in a crane would not be a bad thing it would be intelligent actually.

Also We dont need rails because We build our own using wheels and blast door edges and sometimes full armor blocks.

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Hmm by your childish ranting here, i assume you must cry a lot for ropes will be never added.

Yet still you are unable to understand, as you are always thinking with gravity involved.


Again and lastly using rope in space is useless, as this game is Space Engineers, NOT Planet Engineers == https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXoNMYDvPHM&feature=youtu.be&t=40s


That simulation will kill your CPU with that buggy game engine.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually My idea was done by game modders and is already in Workshop few times:

Maglev Rail

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=635163592


But more precisely is the HoverRail by Shaostoul and Draygo.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=792286153


Only thing is missing, the built-in version with airtight locking and not bulky models.


"We dont need rails because We build our own using wheels and blast door edges and sometimes full armor blocks." -DAT ENGINEER217


I see you are SE Noob that do not know how that game engine works.

Using wheels for simple doors is calling for "clang-lord" and CPU hang experience in SE.

I own that game before even connectors, pistons/rotors and wheels was there. By the game updates, long forum discussions and my knowledge of that engine (modding), soo i do know, that your Ropes will be never added.


If you were adult, you will know to deal with it.


Good bye (i don't care what you spam here, you may be banned for trolling this topic)

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The only issue that we have here is you not reading comments and understanding them.

"It is in fact possible to use cables in space in many ways (like using them to pull a large piece of wreckage into a hangar bay or grinder pit for people who run ion scavenger ships that dont use hydrogen and dont have enough power for small maneuvering ships to move the wreckage)"

That is in space with no gravity, I built this scavenger ship myself and it has a grinder pit. And I am sick of having to rebuild my maneuvering craft because they get caught in the grinder pit while pushing in the wreackage.


Also those are Trains I know exactly what your were talking about with yours and funnily enough I have a wheel based door. Guess what? Its in space. surprising right? It turns out that when people play this game they use more than just space and I have landing craft for my massive scavenger to send down cargo for a permanent base on a planet Because I want there to be.I am running this ship with no gravity, yet I have several things that I want to use cables for for efficiency


I will also re explain why air tight rails wont work:

Hit-boxes and friction.


Second off:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=910061513


all I need is something like this but with the capacity to lower something slowly and I would be happy as many of us have stated that we dont want "realistic" ropes.

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