Medical Room Improvement (Survival): Cost to Respawn

Burstar shared this feedback 6 years ago
Planned

As discussed by Xocliw, respawning in its state as of 187 rewards death. I propose we change this by:

- Switching the respawn timer to the Medical Room block instead of the Respawn Window

- Increasing the power drain of the Med Room while spawning a character (ie: Standby vs. Active)

- Having a consumable used by the Med Room required for respawning (ala parachutes and canvas)

- Alter respawning to provide only the resources available to the Med Room (ie: spawn without gases if none available)

Replies (33)

photo
4

This idea has been around for years but strangely has never been implemented. In my opinion the best way to handle it would to be require a certain component that is consumed for each respawn. An easy one could be Medical Components as they are already in the game.

photo
1

nonsense, a general rule cannot be applied, each style of sp and mp gameplay need to have the own rule

photo
4

In multiplayer and only on ships.

Requirement to be fueled by the oxygen generator and have medical components (1 for each respaw.

A medical room for small grid only for healing and refill would also be welcome.

photo
1

I would really like a small wall panel health administor like in Half Life, would look great on ships and stations

photo
photo
1

I mentioned this in one of Xocliw's recent streams, and he seemed to think it could work --> Respawning can give you a temporary movement and tool speed penalty. It wouldn't need any of this character stat nonsense I've seen being passed around, and it could still make people think twice if the percentage slowdown is harsh enough.

photo
2

The idea has been around a while. But I would make it a little more concise:

1. Create a new item called "medical supplies" that can be assembled.

2. Create inventory space in the Medical Room for medical supplies. Each medical room should pull up to 400 units if "use conveyor" is active. The med room should also be able to store any hand tools available to the player. Medical supplies should probably be in the hand tools category and then just open the category to the med room.

3. To heal one HP of damage require 1 medical supply unit. To respawn requires 200 medical supply units.

4. Balance the cost in materials of a medical supply unit (should contain silver and other other ingots).


Now there's a definitive cost to respawning or using med bays as the "poor man's transporter."

photo
1

I’m worried about early start becoming too difficult, if you jetpack off and die but don’t have materials to make new tools, are you screwed? There are some edge case situations where player may become unable to continue game.

photo
5

Hello, thank you for the suggestion. We do plan to solve death rewarding in some of following Majors.

photo
2

it would make sense to add a way to take off your space suit or to craft one atleast as a resource for your medbay,also if possible it requires time to clone and have some engineers at stock, so for a large ship or base you would require to have a few medbays as they would have 3 clones and would to recreate those once there is one used. must be a way of seeing on the medbay how much there are left. just think of it as charges that need to regenerate for 10 minutes or something like that.

photo
1

As long they buff up the Engineer and introduce medkits or something heal yourself with when exploring. I like the idea and all just the Engineer dies to anything too quickly. takes a interior turret a second to kill you,A gatling gun bullet impact will kill you instantly if your near anything solid and your jetpack can make you fly into the ground and kill you within seconds. I just want to be able to survive without getting killed instantly.

photo
photo
3

The idea of having to build and keep track of even more consumables makes me cringe to the very fabric of my core. Building and keeping track of ammunition is enough to soothe this fetish-like gameplay, and you aren't penalized by being revoked of your rights to spawn at your base or ship as a result of forgetting to dilly-dally with it 24/7.

The medical room could however drain more power, and work similarly to that of the jump drive, where it stores a finite amount of respawn charges. All this does is add to a feature that is already well-established in the game: Making sure your grid has power. And it shouldn't count if you disconnect from the server, alive. OR, perhaps it should, so that it will give the Cryo block an actual purpose.

photo
2

Although I've never played multiplayer, doesn't the cryo pod provide a save point where you don't loose everything you have in your backpack when you rejoin the game? If not, then I agree the cryo pod is just a redundant component.

photo
3

Yeah, the cryo saves the items you have on you for when you connect next time. It's just that I always put my items in the cargo, even before I enter the cryo. So, to me, the cryo is very much redundant. It would've served more of a purpose if it meant saving a respawn charge (large power drain).

photo
1

For you, the cryopod serves not to have screen respaw and faction members do not see your name (dead) in your medbay on their respaw screen.

photo
photo
1

Make the medical bay just that a refill point only for health&power o2 and h2 but large grid only, I would prefer to have all the functions split a suit locker for the wardrobe function, o2 and separate h2 fill point health and power recharge blocks and separate spawn tile which is just for spawning on possibly a cap on spawn tiles per player.

Yes keep the large med bay which could serve all functions bar spawning but also the separate blocks which could be used on large or small grids and the respawn tile which could be large or small grids.

This would be good if you are creating small scenarios if you want to restrict functions i.e spawn with no suit you have to find a suit locker to change to your suit and have to find charge point for o2 h2 health and power.


There is a suit locker/wardrobe armory by peter hammerman which unfortunately no longer works paired with sektans city suit where you have no EVA suit would be quite immersive if you have to change to go into a vacuum and enable the use of your jet pack.

photo
2

I used to have this comment on another post, this one, has lots more votes however.

I suggested requiring the medical components or a 'medkit' to be placed into the medical bay to allow respawn, This would for instance require engineers to be much more careful and not allow them to repeatedly spawn and 'drain' turrets by moving really fast until they are killed and then raiding an enemies base.


While it adds a single extra component, a medkit, the medkit could also be used to heal the engineer, however... to prevent abuse of the medkit, it would need a cooldown effect to prevent the medical kit from instantly healing players.

It should take a considerable amount of time for the medkit to heal a player (20-30 seconds or more).

photo
1

I'd give respawn function to cryo pods. Make each of them store one clone, in case you die. They could refill after use, but it takes a lot of time and some energy.

So build more of them, if you plan to die a lot. I.e. assault barge should be filled with them.

That sexy small grid cryopod we've seen would come in handy with this idea.

photo
3

I dislike that feature. Novice people like me die countless of times accidentally. I wouldn't like to spend a limited resource (medical components) to respawn, maybe just energy. Also, it should be an optional configuration in the world generation menu.

photo
3

This suggestion is pure survivalist cancer and needs to die in a hole. (make a mod if you want this on your server there are already some economy mods that make re spawn ships cost money something similar would be to your liking but don't try to force your hardcore BS on other innocent players)

This would render the game pretty damn near unplayable with the new survival mechanics as well as the constant clang deaths

photo
3

i you don't want to die in survival, then use space master to godmode.

photo
1

Are you saying you want there to be a resource for when you die that you need to have? I am confused on this topic.

photo
1

Or there can be a setting for it, like what they did with oxygen. We don't need to start hating each other over adding something if you can just turn it off when you don't want it.

photo
photo
1

I would really not like more costing affairs with the medical room because some people would not be able to understand that there are a cost and the power to be required increases or you need to make a cheap/rich item to be used for respawning or copied on to the land...

photo
1

It should be noted that the spawn was switched. and it's still terrible.

it's more for a 'hardcore' type server.

for more experienced players... but this punishes via keen's bugs for some players and causes accidental deaths. so likely will be ignored.

photo
2

I think a block-bound timer would be enough. The problem with requiring resources is that it punishes unintentional deaths in the early game much more than the later intentional deaths aimed at teleportation and raiding.

Maybe link the timeout to the cause of death? Make it short if the death wasn't in proximity of hostile grids and longer if killed by hostile means. This does not adress suicide teleporting but makes offline raiding bases in pvp harder and actually encourages smarter action than suiciding in with the grinder equipped until the base is out of ammo or all opposition ist grinded down.

photo
10

The last thing newcomers or casual players need is something like this. If it's implemented, PLEASE make it an optional "Hardcore Mode" setting.

photo
2

>Alter respawning to provide only the resources available to the Med Room (ie: spawn without gases if none available)

Starting 'empty' is probably a bad idea, howhever starting with minimal health (if no healing related materials) and 25% of everything sounds about right) Empyrion works like that (or worked...) and it was reasonable, since there was no chance to become completely stranded yet low health/food/O2 was cripling in regards to combat capabilities.

Also distance based respawn timer might be reasonable: the further you died from medbay, the longer it will take to respawn at this specific medbay, that should somewhat discorage teleportation.


Other suggestions:

1. Medbay should provide tools from inventory, not default one

2. It should be possible to set medbay to spawn without tools (per medbay, not global)

photo
2

What about accidental death due to glitchea/bugs/klang?

photo
1

i suggest an alternate idea:

instead of some sort of consumable or increase in cost....

introduce some sort of timer, which increases as you get closer to an enemy grid, with 0:00 being if you are outside of 3km radius, and upwards of an hour if you are within 5m of the grid/player

photo
1

I like the original idea, except for the use of consumables, and the bit about the gas. Taking away those two bullet points would make this a great idea. If you want to incur some sort of cost, perhaps the medbay incurs damage each time it respawns a player. That would leverage existing game mechanics to implement the same idea of "cost."

Regardless, the idea is great even without the "cost" concept (and the gas limit).

photo
2

back to this topic, i have a feeling that the gas limit would almost entirely remove "hydromanning" as it is, because then you have to have an established point of spawning that has all of the supplies, and not just the bare minimum to drop onto the point, and spawn endlessly

photo
2

if you are on a planet, you dont NEED jetpacks, as they can also be somewhat costly, and if you are in space, you already have the supplies to circumvent these restrictions, unless provided before, that you only have a spawn kit and battery or something similarly restricted

and you could have it so that theres a dynamic or setting for how much it takes each spawn, like making it so that you can only retrieve gasses from it, but not spawn with them, or use a lot of gasses to spawn with (and it could be on an "efficiency" scale like the welder speeds and such) along with the fact that you could have it so that you could disable one gas or the other, or make it so that you dont have to worry about it for planetary but do have to for space

photo
photo
3

I also have been thinking about biomass consumption for growing a new clone when respawning.

Add a limit amount of biomass to starter pod/ship then add biomass to the loot drop pods and NPC ships and make it more of a hunt between players to find them.

Add a big stationary block for growing biomass that requires dirt, ice, sunlight and warm climate. That will create a trade gods that will more efficient to produce on planets and make planetside bases more interesting.

Add the ability to open up the Medbays for everyone to spawn at a SC coast. Then factions that operates a space stations can make a profit from people spawning at their station.

If you can't spawn because your out of biomass you can start with a new starter pod/ship but it will cost you SC from your account. (if u have negative credit then your reputation will decrease).

photo
3

The problem with all these suggestions is that they presuppose an established player. A brand new player would be unable to use the spawn points. Further, by requiring payments in SC, or the consumption of biomass, or the loss of reputation etc, you create a game loop of players "playing in order to be able to play." In other words, players will become focused on the biomass generation and supply in order to ensure they can respawn, which takes away from game time spent playing the actual game. Or it puts new players in a position where, by the time they are able to venture out and visit trading stations, they may have incurred such a penalty to reputation that they may not be able to actually enter the station.

A much simpler solution would be to leverage existing game mechanics and simply say that medical bays incur some slight amount of damage each time they are used. This removes the penalty from being assessed directly against the player, and shifts it to the spawn point provider (who is presumably more established). This is newbie-friendly and in general player-friendly. This also opens engineering challenges such as building self-repairing medical stations with welders. Additionally, as a balancing measure, Survival Kits might be immune from this damage. In this way, starting players don't suffer the penalty, and it gives a benefit to the survival kit, since after players become more resource rich, they generally only build medical stations. This will now provide incentives to build survival kits as well.

photo
3

In the good old days you need to hunt for green magic mushrooms to get more the 3 lives.

You give new players plenty of biomass in their survival kit to start with so they have time time learn the game. But just like the ice in you starer ship in space you have a limited amount before you run out.

New players always hunt for the the drop-pods for new skins and free components, just add biomass to the loot and I don't think you have any problem for new players.


The idea is to give death more consequences so people don't just respawn over and over when trying to raid someone's base and to give new players a trade commodity that they can trade with the more experienced space fairing warlords. The block for creating biomass on planes should bulky but low tech so new players easily can create biomass. A ship or space version of the block should me more expansive and power hungry.

photo
photo
4

I think the biggest problem with the no-cost respawn system is how it gives you the possibility to teleport-by-suicide hundreds or even thousands of km without any cost. Overall, I would agree that respawn needs some sort of cost in any case, but the issue with the ability to instantly get yourself away from your current position to another place far far away is just something that takes a lot away from gameplay. I'm not even thinking about PvP here, I prefer to play SE as co-op/PvE with friends and the idea that if you find yourself in an unfavourable place far away from your base with no easy way of getting back, this creates a scenario for you to fight against. If you have friends that can help you, it gets them involved as well. Maybe you'll need to build something up over there, think or, engineer, your way out of the situation. But right now you can instead just hit the respawn button and it won't matter if you're sitting on some moon 1000 km away from your mega-base, you'll be teleported to your comfort-zone instantly. I feel like this is a real missed opportunity for the game with exploration mechanics (not just survival).


So the solution I propose is something I think that could actually avoid the issue with over-punishing players during the early-game stage. I think implementing an energy-based cost that also takes into account the distance between your position of death and the survival kit/medical room you're trying to spawn at could make a huge difference. So the further you are from your respawn device, the more energy the device will want to consume to "resurrect" you. When people talk about using the respawn system for teleportation, there are always the ones who support exploiting it and the ones who are trying to find ways to block it from happening. What I suggest is to have a formula like the one in use for the laser antenna. So maybe up to about 50 km of distance, your respawn cost would be calculated based on a linear formula and it would not cost anything substantial. This would make sure the system isn't punishing during early-game since it's unlikely that someone at that point would be that far away from his base. However, above 50 km the formula could change to a non-linear function where the energy requirement could increase exponentially based on distance. This would technically make it not impossible for you to respawn on that outpost you built 2000 km away, but maybe it will tell you your medical room there will draw 1 GW of power for 2 minutes to charge up. Or it could be instant without a timer, but it would still draw the same amount of energy. But you would basically need that amount of energy stored and have enough max power output as well to support something like this, or the system would just warn you it can't spawn you there.


This would make teleportation not technically impossible, but instead it would stop it from being an "exploit" but rather a more legitimate game mechanic that just requires you to have the necessary infrastructure for it. It would stop suiciding at will and improve cooperation between players, as you would need to work together if you're actually stranded somewhere, which gives you challenges to overcome during late-game. It would still make it possible and feasible to have respawn points on your nearby ships, so you could respawn there if you actually got killed without suiciding. But if you just wanted to teleport back to your base hundreds/thousands of km away instead of spawning at your nearest respawn point on your ship, that would incur a huge cost and discourage you from possibly even thinking about it in the first place.

photo
1

Teleport by respawn is a bit cheesy. On the other hand, how else can you manage things spread all over the game world? It's a gamism with no great solution.


If you are playing a co-op quasi realistic game, then it's literally no effort to simply declare the scenario rules include "you can't respawn to teleport" or however you want to phrase it. However, for players that are playing a different type of game, where they have ships and bases all over the map, they shouldn't be penalized.

photo
2

I think all this could be made easy just by parameterising what I described, so the server owner would be able to determine how it all works. You could for example have a base energy cost setting that sets the minimum energy to respawn, and another setting that controls how much the requirement increases by distance. If you were able to set both to zero, you can override this whole mechanic and have the game work as it is now. I agree any such thing should be both optional and customisable.


And honestly, setting rules for your server to say "don't do this" just never works in my experience. A lot of people will choose to cheese when given the opportunity, even if they know they would have more variety in their gameplay if they had chosen not to :)

photo
photo
2

Another way to add a cost to prevent its use for teleporting is adding a time to respawn based on distance to medbay.

For short ranges, like a few kilometers this could be seconds or less, but increase respawn time with distance, or possibly, the extra distance from your closest med bay.


That way, if you have a base but die in a crash that destroys your ship you can respawn instantly, but if your ship still exists with a working med bay and you choose to respawn at another one you incure a penalty based on the extra distance.

New players will not be affected at all, but established players will have to weight the time to respawn to the time to jump or travel some other way.

This might be circumvented using timers to turn of your local med bay to force a respawn at another one, but that requires a bit of extra work.


You could also add an extra penalty if you spawn back to an area you recently left (like, when you spawn far away you leave a quarantine zone of a few kilometers around all med bays that where closer than the one you went to and spawning back into the quarantine zone also adds a significant penalty.


That way the penalty is limited to the most obvious abuses.

photo
4

Also, adding a delay is a terrible idea. The last thing you want to do as a game designer, is to make ways to keep your player from playing the game. So you die and have to respawn across the map. And the game decides you need to wait 5 minutes before spawning. Are you gonna wait? Or will you go do something else? Or maybe you turn on Netflix while you wait. Or play something else. Will you return to the game? Maybe, maybe not. This is a glorified appointment mechanic like farmville and it's truly terrible game design. Stop and ask, what's really happening? Anything useful? A respawn delay literally adds nothing to the game, actually reduces the amount of time you spend playing.

photo
photo
3

Mind, the frequency with which SE kills players unexpectedly and unjustifiedly simply from SE being SE would make a respawn cost a significantly and unproductively frustrating feature. As in, rather than "I like the challenge because it forces me be more creative and to work less recklessly", it's "WHY DID I JUST DIE KEEN FIX YOUR DAMN GAME".

photo
3

That's why my suggestion includes distance since if you get frequently killed your likely using a close by med bay, in which case there would be no cost, or very very little.

Enforcing the cost only when large distances is involved will target only those that tries to use it for instant teleport.

photo
2

Maybe it will encourage people to use smallships or remote controlled drones for different purposes more, not just running/flying with jetpack and tools. In real life, human body is fragile, so you can't act like the Iron man without real Iron man suit.

photo
2

More than likely it'll motivate someone to make a mod that completely negates the penalty (and it'll be up in less than 12 hours after the update that includes this "feature"). Most people will use that instead of changing their playstyle.

photo
3

The function of respawning to teleport for base management could be added to cryopods.

Climb into a cryopod and have options to either respawn (leaving your current body alive and stored in that cryopod) or transfer your POV into a body stored in another cryopod if the grids the pods are on have a radio connection (again leaving the current body alive and stored in that cryopod).


Each body should have its own inventory, of course, so you can't teleport tools and materials. And transferring consciousness from one body to another should be much cheaper than respawning. Stored bodies should continue to consume oxygen just like a player logged out on a multiplayer server.

Man, I would have so much fun with this.

It would even provide a lore explanation for why you never find anyone on ships. People don't need to travel to places they have a body stored. They can just pay rent for a cryopod on another planet or station. The basic AI is good enough to follow a series of waypoints to haul materials from place to place, only requiring a pilot to shuttle out from/to them on each end like harbor pilots for irl marine ships.

photo
1

Spawn jumping is necessary to deal with a real problem in the game. When you don't respawn where you should, i.e. the closest respawn point to where you died. Or when the server crashes and rolls back and you end up spawning somewhere far away from your ship or grid you were last at. Fix that first and they we really wont need spawn jumping.

photo
1

Embarking on a medical room improvement journey is a vital aspect of enhancing survival rates in various settings, whether it be hospitals, clinics, or emergency response units. One crucial factor in this survival equation is understanding the cost to respawn, both in terms of financial investments and the efficiency of medical equipment. Upgrading and optimizing medical facilities require strategic planning to ensure that the right tools are readily available for timely interventions. Collaborating with medical equipment distributors becomes paramount in sourcing state-of-the-art devices that can significantly impact patient outcomes. From advanced monitoring systems to life-saving devices, the seamless integration of cutting-edge technology not only improves the quality of care but also bolsters the overall resilience of medical facilities. In navigating the intricate landscape of medical room improvement, a strategic alliance with reputable medical equipment distributors is key to achieving a cost-effective and life-saving transformation.

photo
photo
1

mhmm ... consumables and clone setting EVE Online style should be a good improvement

photo
1

What if you can’t afford to pay the respawn costs? Save file deleted/ permanent server ban?

photo
1

Make a separate block for revival that only faction leaders can build, no more than one. Make NPC corporations accessible and make starting points with them. Limit the number of corporations on the server. Medical units are for treatment only. Significantly cut down the jetpack so that it can only be used for rescue.

photo
1

Make starting ships free at stations, with a limit on the number of purchases.

photo
1

How can I collect a consumable item used by the Health Department to fnaf revive?

photo
2

Why not have a consumable container of primordial bio goo that would be required to rebuild an engineer. Could be a byproduct of the oxygen farm, just add ice and trees!

photo
1

That is a terrible idea...

  • Because at the start of the game you don't have oxygen farms built.
  • Because at the start of the game, when using progression, oxygen farms may not be unlocked.
  • Because at the start of the game, you might not be on a planet, in an area with trees.
  • Because at the start of the game, you might not be on a planet, in an area with ice.
  • Because at the start of the game, novice players tend to die a lot and can quickly exhaust whatever starting quantity of "goo" is provided. (And if you give them so much that they can't run out, then it's not really a "cost.")
  • Because it's not intuitive.
  • Because there are often times when a death is due to a bug or quirk of the game and not because the player made a mistake or a bad decision (like getting killed by a closing door). That's not a fun player experience to be penalized for something that wasn't your fault.
  • Because you ignored the case of what happens when you don't have any goo made? If the answer is anything other than "game over" then why not just use *that* as the cost of respawning?
  • Because players that have an established industry can keep a massive supply of "goo" around and will be able to respawn freely anyway, so this is really only a penalty for starting players or players new to a server.
  • Because adding an entirely new resource that has an extremely narrow utility within the game is shoddy game design.

photo
1

I had not realised that I had stepped into such a minefield! It is good to read all the pitfalls that could result from a respawn cost system. There appears to be many an issue around exploits and novice players.

How could you make a respawn cost work?

How can you add another difficultly factor for long term players?

The scenario system requires restrictions to create variations in achievements.


Could a respawn cost be an optional game setting, defaulted to off?

Does survival mode have meaning?

Do you need two survival modes : beginner and advanced?

Carbon as a resource, is it really such a bad idea? (It does not have to come just from trees.)

Limiting 'Goo' :- 'goo' could be difficult to store, maybe a limited supply of a specialist refillable bottle. Possibly a similar container to the oxygen and hydrogen bottles, but much harder to obtain additional bottle.

It is good to know the problems with an idea. The ideas that players come up with are inspired by the game. It is good to preserve game elements that have made the game successful. It is also good to add new elements that open up more gameplay to the player. Currently the limits of survival gameplay have not inspired enough use of the scenario creation system.

I hope that my comments will keep the conversation going. Let us continue to offer ways to make ideas work.

photo
1

Any experienced game designer can tell you that having a "cost" to respawn in a game like this is a bad mechanic because it is rife with issues, so there's really no way to make it "work."

The problem is this discussion is focusing on a single [bad] solution instead of considering the actual problem that it is supposed to solve. Why do people propose a "respawn cost?" Most answers amount to "because people can just respawn at-will in order to teleport between distant locations as long as there is a spawn point there, and that's bad."

First, is that actually a problem? I can agree that it seems a bit cheesy. I can see how some people might not like that you can do that. However, there is some balance. Using this method of transport, you can't take more than you can carry. So it's not like you can move massive amounts of resources, or vessels like this.

It also doesn't really happen that often, does it? This issue occurs almost entirely in the following conditions: on servers, in large factions, with extensive industry all over the star system. That is actually a tiny fraction of players. So the discussion is about imposing a bad solution on all players to address an aspect of the game that only a very small population of players actually encounter. That's already a few red flags from a game-design perspective.

There is also the issue that it is necessary. You can't have multiple bases across vast distances without the ability to quickly get to and manage each one.

Given these conditions, a solution that penalizes all players because a very tiny population of players doesn't like something, is a really poor choice in game design.

The ideal solution is not to penalize players for using the game systems the way they are designed, but rather to incentivize players to choose not to cheese the mechanics. How can you do that? Give the player a benefit for not respawning, which is lost when the player does respawn. This encourages players to find ways to avoid respawning if they can, but doesn't penalize players for respawning when they need to.

For example, grind and weld speeds might improve over time, as the player stays alive. Respawn and you are reset back to the default values that you start with. Perhaps mining speed increases and is reset if you respawn (not yield, though, that would introduce new problems).

The key is to find something that,

  • Can grow over time
  • Can be reset to original values after a respawn
  • Is clearly beneficial
  • Is desirable in early, mid, and late-game
  • Is not unbalancing such that late-game players benefit more than early game players.

photo
1

Instead of having a 'straight' cost, it can be something flexible. Like respawning at a set home point or at a temporary respawning ship is always free, but otherwise takes resources. I Imagine something like this would be invaluable for scenarios.

Howhever in scope of "reward death" discusdion instead of having a respawning cost which quickly becomes redundant it might be better to improve protections. The biggest cheat in my opinion is a medical station+timer combo. The simplest way to adress it might be to make a startup and shutdown delays, like an internal power buffer or some 'connect/disconects mechanics that forced device to stay on longer (about a minutes?) and turn on with a delays.

photo
1

And if by magic a space engineer appeared.

Gameplay, engineering, single player, multiplayer, exploits, immersion, creative, survival, scenarios, game mechanics, problem solving, tiered challenges, game longevity. Please add to the list.

What is important to me may not be for you.

Having some biological building material to clone an engineer seemed to make sense to me.


How can we all be satisfied? Some desire change or enhancement, some do not.

For many, SE has done a good job of accommodating players needs


The 'advanced world settings' screen options have solved many issues for players.

Could the permanent death option be 'improved' to make different types of respawn gameplay suit the playing styles players want?


I like the idea of a free respawn point if the other resourced respawns fail.

Could you have a faction-less free respawn or a free respawn in an engineers prison or an enemies brig?

photo
1

Quote: Using this method of transport, you can't take more than you can carry.

Set the amount a character can carry to zero. That would make abusing the system less attractive. Beyond that, harsher disadvantages could go into the advanced options.

Perhaps some of the existing ones could go to keep the menu from getting too cluttered (Supergridding? Unsupported stations?). But that is another discussion.

photo
1

I was mistaken, using the respawn-teleport method, you can't carry anything with you :D I have no idea what I was thinking of when I said that.

Regardless, the suggestion to set the amount a character can carry to zero fails to address the root cause of the "problem" and also causes issues everywhere else in the game (you can no longer hold tools or weapons, you can no longer hand mine, you cannot build anything because you can't hold components).

Levying "harsher disadvantages" carries all the same problems as the original suggestion to consume some sort of resource in order to respawn. (See my previous comments).

photo
1

> What is important to me may not be for you.

Yes, but game designers cannot adopt that attitude, as changes made to the game will affect all players. When suggesting changes to how a system works, you have assumed the role of a game designer. So you have to consider how changes affect other people that play the game differently.

> Having some biological building material to clone an engineer seemed to make sense to me.

Of course. It's a very obvious answer to the problem. Many people have suggested similar because without deeper analyses it sounds like a good idea. The problem is that it isn't a good solution because of all the problems it creates, which I described.

> How can we all be satisfied? Some desire change or enhancement, some do not.

You've misunderstood. This discussion isn't about whether to "make a change or not;" the discussion is about what change to make to solve the problem. (And I have raised the question as to what the specific problem is and whether or not it is actually a problem or just an extreme edge-case encountered by a very small number of players.)

> Could the permanent death option be 'improved' to make different types of respawn gameplay suit the playing styles players want?

Sure, there are plenty of changes that could be made. (I'll point out that your mention of perma-death respawning was never mentioned in the original context of the problem and this is the first time you've mentioned it, so you have changed the problem context.)

However, again, the question isn't whether it is possible to make a change. The question is about what change to make and whether the secondary consequences of that change are acceptable.

> I like the idea of a free respawn point if the other resourced respawns fail.

The game already provides this via the respawn screen.

> Could you have a faction-less free respawn or a free respawn in an engineers prison or an enemies brig?

It's software. It can be made to do anything the developers want. The question is what are the implications of making that decision? If a decision is made to create a specific behavior, then you have to examine both what is required for that to work, as well as the implications for both new and established players, e.g., is there always a brig to spawn in, and how do players escape the brig? These questions can be answered, of course. But when your answers lead you down a path of "we can do X, but that creates problem Y, so we'll do Z, but that creates problem P, so we'll do R..." and so on, that's a strong red-flag that the desired behavior is a poor choice.

You seem to be a bit frustrated with my responses. I assure you, I am not "arguing" with you. I am raising valid concerns and issues that must be considered when changing core systems in a game. Game Design is an entire career with a lot of science behind it (behavior economics, systems engineering, etc). Don't be frustrated when an off-the-cuff idea isn't a good solution to a problem that's been around a long time. If it were that easy, it would have been done already.

photo
1

Long, long ago, there was a game where hearts were all the rage. If you lost all of your hearts you would loose one of your three lives. Only a save point would prevent you from starting from the beginning. Through struggle and achievement you could gain more hearts and greatly resist the perils ahead. If you lost all of your lives, the game was over. That was the way it was, less you had found a fairy and put it in a jar or even two or three fairies in jars. Oh what a silly game taking far too many hours to play.

That was then and this is now, make rules and break them. Make better things and make them fun. Use 'The Goo' or just have space fairies in jars, don't care! at least in both worlds there is a reason for the engineers reappearance. OK, just add some lore about Goo being extracted from universe essence at no cost if you think that there is no other option.

Have you played 'Hardspace Shipbreaker', here is a game with a cost for re-cloning, a simple credit debt, though a comparatively huge debt.

I am not trying to cross game dev lore, but would encourage creativity to overcome a problem.

For myself, the problem is for the game to make sense.

photo
Leave a Comment
 
Attach a file