Hydrogen FIx

MechaDraco shared this feedback 5 years ago
Submitted

So, I was think a lot about all the blocks added in the new survival update, and one of the main things that seems to stand out above everything is of course the Hydrogen Engine. This being more because of it's usage (or lack there of) then anything.


The main thing that seemed to stand out as I read a lot of comments and made my own determinations on whats going on with this block, is that it brings a lot of attention to a problem that has existed since it's implementation. That being of course the many issues people seem to have with hydrogen as a whole, Tanks being to large, consumption of Hydrogen being to great, not enough usage for it, etc etc.


So I was thinking to myself, what could we possible really do to fix this problem. Obviously a lot of people have suggested smaller hydrogen tanks, which I am inclined to agree with, but that doesn't really fix a lot of the other issues. So what else could we possible do at this point to manage hydrogen better, so that it not only is more applicable, but also improve the overall usage as an alternative to other forms of power in the game.


However, first we need to find the real root of the problem, and that lies with...


Ice


Yes you heard me right, it's the ice that's actually the problem, not the engines, the tanks, or the usage of hydrogen.


Now hear me out on this, but isn't it a little strange that you don't really need all that much ice in the game to actually make all the oxygen and hydrogen you need? I mean honestly speaking from my own experiences, even if I am running a massive ship off hydrogen, I can do most of my ice mining by hand and still have plenty to go around. It just feels like it's too easy to make all that you need off of just a small handful of the stuff. Go mining once for ice with a mining ship, and you're basically set for life on the stuff.


What comes up from this, is in order to compensate for the small amount of ice you need to make the hydrogen, they increased the amount of hydrogen needed to actually run things properly. Which from what I can tell, most people aren't to keen on. It just ends up running your engines dry to quickly, forcing you to build tons of additional generators and tanks, all of which take to much space. Which in turn makes most ships using it, bulky, un-aesthetically pleasing, and honestly a huge waste of time and resources.


So here is where my fix comes in.


Increase the amount of ice you need, decrease the hydrogen usage


To fully explain what I mean. Lets take all of the other resources in the game, Iron, gold, Uranium, etc etc. What's the main thing they all have in common? You go to mine a lot of it, and making several trips if not more with a fully built mining ship is going to be required. So why not just do this for Ice as well? There are HUGE pockets of the stuff just about everywhere, it is probably the most plentiful resource other then rocks, so why not just make it so you have to use a tremendous amount of it in order to make it work.


I say, first thing we need to do, is of course worry about volume, clearly if you're using tons and tons of ice, you'd have to be concerned about having it on a ship and it becoming to overweight. Well for one that would be where tanks could come in handy even more so now, simply making you be required in more situations to actually build tanks filled with oxygen and hydrogen on ships, instead of just having a generator constantly making the stuff. You could also lower the total volume of ice a smigen to make it so you could still carry at least some ice with you, even in the greater amounts you're going to need.


Next of course we have to look at the hydrogen and oxygen consumptions, I'd argue that perhaps oxygen is fine where it is, several smaller tanks filled usually is more then enough to keep a ship good to go for several days if not weeks. (as long as you're not constantly venting half the ship every time you leave it.) So that seems fine, but what about the hydrogen? Well as it's been stated before, a different sized tank, would be a great step in the right direction. The current ones are just, so big, and so bulky, that trying to place one anywhere that isn't in the way, is just near impossible. Without pretty much building a dedicated room for them, there just aren't a lot of options for it.


So smaller tanks obviously would be nice, but even without those, we still have the issue of the massive consumption of hydrogen for even the smallest of usage. So with us now making it harder to make the stuff, we no longer have a reason to keep its drain so high. A tank that has several thousand liters of the stuff can actually last longer then a few minutes of use. Even the Hydrogen engine would benefit tremendously from this, with its own internal tank now actually having greater impact. I would still argue that perhaps the Engine could use a bit more power output, say somewhere around 800 kw for small grid instead of the 500?


However even if the power output didn't change, its usage would be far more appreciated since a tank that holds, several thousand gallons (16000 L) of fuel, can actually go farther then 25km's. As for the exact numbers, well I am not a programmer, nor do I know all the numbers in its current state. So I can't tell you guys what or how exactly it should all look once written down. What I can tell you is this.

No one complains about mining, the game is basically built around mining, so why don't we use that to our advantage so that we actually have to mine the one thing we barely if ever mine, Ice. Add a smaller tank, cut down on the hydrogen usage so like all resources, Ice becomes another one of those things we go out and mine a lot of, but we don't have to always be constantly mining it, just to make it work.


That's my suggestion and thoughts, I am sure it wont go over very well, but if you liked it maybe leave a comment and see if keen will have a look at it. Maybe if enough people like the idea, they'll think about it a little more.

Replies (1)

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I love the idea!


One of the things that really annoyed me with the hydrogen engine is that you cant use it as a kind of fastly recharging battery because it doesn't lastblong enough to keep a rover running.

What you propose would actually make gas stations a feasible engineering solution. Just build a base constantly converting massive amounts of ice into now previous hydrogen using solar or wind energy. Then you could use this hydrogen to power your extremely light rover for an extended amount of time befor you have ro refill again at the station.


I would combine this wirh the idea in some other post to make the internal tank of a hydrogen engine somehow contolable with it having the option to fill the tank even if the engine is off.

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This was kind of my goal all along. Even with larger ships you could have actual refueling stations that function as such. A large ship with several Large Hydrogen tanks may last quite some time with out refueling, but even they will need to get refueled eventually. They may still have on board o2/h2 generators, but they effectively will never carry enough ice to be able to fully refuel the tanks on their own unless you do mining missions from the ship itself.


I just picture large stations with like 20+ tanks all full and ready to go, and several ships coming and going from it to refuel. As of right now that's basically not an option, tanks burn down so quick you don't have a choice but to have o2/h2 generators, ships can't run on JUST tanks alone, and that's part of my problem. Especially with how large they are.

Hell it even brings in the possibility for refueling ships as well, large ships with tons of tanks that it can approach another ship with, drop off fuel, then return to home base so that those bigger ships can stay out longer.

I also agree, the engine should be able to be refueled even while off, it only makes sense. I just forgot to mention that part in the post XD.

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Tanks only coming in one size is a big issue for me as well. I just started playing again after a two year+ break and the first thing I encounter when trying to build a ship with a usable layout: Massive sizes for Tanks & Containers.

For example: (LARGE SHIPS)

1. Hydrogen tank only has one size and its pretty bulky so finding enough space for the massive amount of fuel to fly it is nigh impossible without making the ship MASSIVE requiring more armor blocks = more weight. So what do I do? I go to the Workshop to find a mod that has more options for sizes. This takes me out of the game to go waste time searching for things I think is clear that should be in the game already.

2. I had the same issue with containers. Large ships only have 2 options... 1x1 or MASSIVE 3x3! why is medium cargo container restricted to only small ships? Why not have a re-scaled large cargo container that is 2x2? Since 3x3 are so massive I could only find enough space for 2. I have decent chunk of un-used space but a 3x3 would block vital conveyor piping etc and putting a TON of 1x1 storage containers is redundant & effects performance! (performance being key) It sucks having to always go to the workshop even for simple things.

3. I love this game, this is why I always want to come back to play it. The game looks better than ever and I know the devs have put great work into this game, so lets continue to make SE GREAT!


*EDIT* My issue is NOT the size of the tanks, just that there is not enough size options.

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I'm inclined to agree with you, The size of them are not the problem, it's the fact that there is only one size. My other issue lies with the fact that even with these large tanks, we might as well not of even made them in the first place. When you need at least 4 of them on a large ship or 2 of them on a small just to allow it to function long enough to do anything with them, it's just not worth it.


I also don't know why cargo is basically the same way. It feels like it wouldn't be that hard to develop some smaller ones, and I don't even expect them like in the very next update. I get it takes time to make these sorts of things, but the teasers, and the secret way they release things sometimes just gets on my nerves. Instead of acknowledging the issue, letting us know they are going to maybe look into this. They say nothing and then maybe a year from now they tease it, and then in another year they release it.


My main issue still lies with the hydrogen system itself. I built a rover with the engine after the release, and it doesn't work any different from where it was at the last play test. I went ahead and built a tank, and a H2/O2 generator, and even with them I can't even get to my Iron deposit that's about 1 km away without using 10% of my fuel reserves. I'm not saying I can't use the thing, but with how quickly it burns through it all, I just don't see a point. I'd rather any day rip all that material out of the rover and just replace it with 1 battery.

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