Concrete blocks, not concrete voxels
I know this idea has been declined and this is sort of duplicate of https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/publictest/topic/a-use-for-all-that-gravel-concrete but please before declining this, consider it in it's most simple form. It would provide a lot of benefits with very little work.
I really fail to see the complexity in concrete blocks since they would basically be reskinned versions of armor blocks with a bit different stats, usable only in large grids, unless there are some underlaying issues. There are many great ideas how they could work, and I'm not claiming any of these ideas as my own.
A) Why concrete blocks would be great addition to the game:
1. They would encourage people to actually build beautiful bases as steel plates are always needed for everything and there are more important uses for steel plates than wasting them on enclosed buildings, but gravel just piles up.
2. Cool looking bases are a great way to showcase this game, much better than a platforms of steel frames everywhere.
3. Base building encourages creativity while freeing up resources for ships.
4. Players like to do something while waiting assembler to produce more components or refinery to refine more ore. Working on base can be very nice time sink, but with limited steel resources required for everything, people are just waiting next to assembler or refinery.
B) Implementation:
1. Large grid blocks only.
2. Make concrete blocks so heavy that they would be impractical on ships while less durable than normal armor blocks.
3. Armor blocks would be basically improvement over concrete blocks adding a bit more progression.
C) Construction & components:
1a. Refine X ammount of gravel into X ammount of concrete bags, fast process.
1b. Concrete blocks would need X ammount of girders (for example) and X ammount of concrete bags (As just an idea, 1 girder 10 concrete bags).
1c. Or concrete blocks could only need concrete bags.
2. Or to make it even more simple and easy to implement, concrete blocks would only need gravel to build.
3. Concrete blocks would be fast to weld (no need to nitpick about welding concrete blocks please, it's a game).
4. Three construction stages. Stage 1: Frame, Stage 2: Filled block, Stage 3: Complete block.
5. Grind down into gravel.
I like this feedback
It sounds simple and it is, but i guess not for them.
It would be nice to have concrete but its not going to happen since they admited a week ago that it is too complex for them to make it happen.
"Unfortunately, we are not going to implement this feature because of the complex nature of this suggested feature."
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/publictest/topic/a-use-for-all-that-gravel-concrete
It sounds simple and it is, but i guess not for them.
It would be nice to have concrete but its not going to happen since they admited a week ago that it is too complex for them to make it happen.
"Unfortunately, we are not going to implement this feature because of the complex nature of this suggested feature."
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/publictest/topic/a-use-for-all-that-gravel-concrete
I think that concrete blocks should be unbuilt using drills instead. But yeah, concrete blocks man! That's a (somehow) good idea!
I think that concrete blocks should be unbuilt using drills instead. But yeah, concrete blocks man! That's a (somehow) good idea!
Come on, it's a block that requires gravel or as OP said concrete bags. It's not that complex to implement. And all blocks should have the same shapes as the regular armor blocks. The texture and spacing and unification of these should be done like blast-door blocks. Texture can be actual concrete. Would need girders i agree. Sounds like an interesting idea and not to complex. Something that would be nice to add to these things would be terrain resistances, like there can be no sliding on this sort of blocks etc.
Come on, it's a block that requires gravel or as OP said concrete bags. It's not that complex to implement. And all blocks should have the same shapes as the regular armor blocks. The texture and spacing and unification of these should be done like blast-door blocks. Texture can be actual concrete. Would need girders i agree. Sounds like an interesting idea and not to complex. Something that would be nice to add to these things would be terrain resistances, like there can be no sliding on this sort of blocks etc.
they could also include the new mechanics of the survival kit, and have the kit produce ore, and a little stone dust. Low weight, but needed to craft with gravel to form concrete
they could also include the new mechanics of the survival kit, and have the kit produce ore, and a little stone dust. Low weight, but needed to craft with gravel to form concrete
**Be Keen**
**Make a whole-a$$ game**
**Claim textures are "complex"**
**Be Keen**
**Make a whole-a$$ game**
**Claim textures are "complex"**
It's still good to remember that SE is probably very close to release and they are mainly looking for very easy to implement ideas which would also have benefits for the gameplay. That's how I tried to present concrete, easy to implement (light armor with different stats and model with cheap build material) with benefits for gameplay (player can focus on both aesthetics and functionality as bases could be build by waste product during downtime, and it would add a bit more progression).
It's good to remember that ideas bloat very fast into point where they can actually be quite complex to implement, so I tried to keep everything as simple as possible in this feedback. Though it might be in a bit wrong section now that I think about it, since the features for this next update are probably already set in stone.
It's still good to remember that SE is probably very close to release and they are mainly looking for very easy to implement ideas which would also have benefits for the gameplay. That's how I tried to present concrete, easy to implement (light armor with different stats and model with cheap build material) with benefits for gameplay (player can focus on both aesthetics and functionality as bases could be build by waste product during downtime, and it would add a bit more progression).
It's good to remember that ideas bloat very fast into point where they can actually be quite complex to implement, so I tried to keep everything as simple as possible in this feedback. Though it might be in a bit wrong section now that I think about it, since the features for this next update are probably already set in stone.
Not that I'm opposed to Concrete Blocks but some of the issues with the idea is texturing you will have to program the structure, make sure that it not glossy like the other blocks are, concrete is not airtight. now to us this is a simple matter of changing numbers around and assigning a graphical it the frame of a block. the problem is that you have a basic frame that reskind every time you lode the game and people want it to lode faster, look cooler, be more stable. think about it, [one block+ one shape+ one skin+mass of block x the amount of blocks used on a ship=load time] now take that and multiply it by planit, asteroids, NPC, Player junk, Now you just want to add another 15 to 20 blocks to the equation and hopefully not have any glitches.
Not that I'm opposed to Concrete Blocks but some of the issues with the idea is texturing you will have to program the structure, make sure that it not glossy like the other blocks are, concrete is not airtight. now to us this is a simple matter of changing numbers around and assigning a graphical it the frame of a block. the problem is that you have a basic frame that reskind every time you lode the game and people want it to lode faster, look cooler, be more stable. think about it, [one block+ one shape+ one skin+mass of block x the amount of blocks used on a ship=load time] now take that and multiply it by planit, asteroids, NPC, Player junk, Now you just want to add another 15 to 20 blocks to the equation and hopefully not have any glitches.
how would laying concrete work in space???
how would laying concrete work in space???
I think concrete should be implemented to balance PvP and give a reason for stations (as opposed to ships). Currently, there is no way to park your ship without it being extremely vulnerable to spammy tactics. At least concrete could act as a cheap buffer against spawn ship ramming.
The texture could simply be the same as stone voxels, but for a block. I disagree slightly with OP: it should be stronger than heavy armor, and not deformable, but 100 times the weight. Heavy armor blocks are simply hollow boxes, and would not be as strong as a solid box of concrete.
I think concrete should be implemented to balance PvP and give a reason for stations (as opposed to ships). Currently, there is no way to park your ship without it being extremely vulnerable to spammy tactics. At least concrete could act as a cheap buffer against spawn ship ramming.
The texture could simply be the same as stone voxels, but for a block. I disagree slightly with OP: it should be stronger than heavy armor, and not deformable, but 100 times the weight. Heavy armor blocks are simply hollow boxes, and would not be as strong as a solid box of concrete.
yes...concrete blocks please
space engineers has many things....mechanical engineer, programming, electrical,....
yet....civil engineer ain't one of it
yes...concrete blocks please
space engineers has many things....mechanical engineer, programming, electrical,....
yet....civil engineer ain't one of it
if medieval engineers can use stone, why can't space engineers? Space age cannot beat medieval age? XD
if medieval engineers can use stone, why can't space engineers? Space age cannot beat medieval age? XD
Yeah, It would be a pretty beneficial way, to get rid of the insane amount of gravel that we usually gather, and also advance our base's progression faster.
I don't know about you guys, but usually I doesn't even bother welding up the armor blocks in my base, until I have so much Steel Plates that I run out of space. Steel Plates are relatively expensive, so it would just delay my progression.
If I could get rid of the Gravel and Advance my base at the same time, that would be awesome!
Only with the 4 basic variant(Block, Slope, Corner and Inverted Corner) it would be good enough!
Also, I could see that you shouldn't Grind down a Concrete Block, but you should use the Hand Drill to destroy it, and you wont get back any of the resources that you put in there. (Just like what usually happens in real life with concrete structures.)
I could also see, that this block should require 1-3 Steel Plates as well, as the formwork for the concrete.
Yeah, It would be a pretty beneficial way, to get rid of the insane amount of gravel that we usually gather, and also advance our base's progression faster.
I don't know about you guys, but usually I doesn't even bother welding up the armor blocks in my base, until I have so much Steel Plates that I run out of space. Steel Plates are relatively expensive, so it would just delay my progression.
If I could get rid of the Gravel and Advance my base at the same time, that would be awesome!
Only with the 4 basic variant(Block, Slope, Corner and Inverted Corner) it would be good enough!
Also, I could see that you shouldn't Grind down a Concrete Block, but you should use the Hand Drill to destroy it, and you wont get back any of the resources that you put in there. (Just like what usually happens in real life with concrete structures.)
I could also see, that this block should require 1-3 Steel Plates as well, as the formwork for the concrete.
People ... Obviously we are giving you a problem of obscure interests. Keen has already admitted to launching it as a DLC or in another game.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=303959338
The author of the mod mentioned has already given carte blanche to anyone who wants to proceed with his mod. For he himself has no time for that.
We could go on discussing the rebalancing to a definitive new mod or passing the parameters to it (not polluting the Steam workshop with repeated things).
Sorry google translator.
People ... Obviously we are giving you a problem of obscure interests. Keen has already admitted to launching it as a DLC or in another game.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=303959338
The author of the mod mentioned has already given carte blanche to anyone who wants to proceed with his mod. For he himself has no time for that.
We could go on discussing the rebalancing to a definitive new mod or passing the parameters to it (not polluting the Steam workshop with repeated things).
Sorry google translator.
What's wrong with blocks AND voxels? We are in desperate need of some way to fill craters as is.
What's wrong with blocks AND voxels? We are in desperate need of some way to fill craters as is.
Slight changes in my opinion:
"Refine" to concrete bag in assembler
Requirement of 1 or 2 steel plate to start making the block
Only placable in fixed grid (base/station only)
Definitely have them weaker than armour blocks though... Makes the progression better
Definitely a good use for the 100s of tons of gravel I invariably generate in early game
Slight changes in my opinion:
"Refine" to concrete bag in assembler
Requirement of 1 or 2 steel plate to start making the block
Only placable in fixed grid (base/station only)
Definitely have them weaker than armour blocks though... Makes the progression better
Definitely a good use for the 100s of tons of gravel I invariably generate in early game
I largely just want blocks for which a Grinder can't grind. Accidently destroying a key block because of an overzealous tool ...really grinds my gears.
Concrete and/or stone 'blocks' and/or carefully chiseled negative block drilling into voxels would fulfill this obscure need. Or a way of painting a No-Grind-Property onto my stuff.
I largely just want blocks for which a Grinder can't grind. Accidently destroying a key block because of an overzealous tool ...really grinds my gears.
Concrete and/or stone 'blocks' and/or carefully chiseled negative block drilling into voxels would fulfill this obscure need. Or a way of painting a No-Grind-Property onto my stuff.
I wanted to add a few interesting facts to this topic.
Lets start with our beloved heavy armor block. It weighs 3000 kg and has a volume of 15,625 m³ like all full large blocks. That gives us a density of 192 kg/m³
The lightest currently possible concrete is 350 kg/m³ which uses highly porous stones with as much as 85% porosity and adds Polystyrene balls on top of that. Its mostly used for insulation as it is, unsurprisingly, not that tough. This would give us 5468.75 per block already.
Less extreme types of lightweight concretes are between 800 kg/m³ and 2000 kg/m³ so a block would weigh between 12500 kg and 31250 kg or about 4 to 10 times heavier than our heavy armor block.
Normal concrete has around 2400 kg/m³ which means 37500 kg a block or 12.5 times heavier than a heavy armor block. Its decently tough but nowhere near steel.
Steel reinforced concrete is even heavier but much tougher. You really can’t give a density here since the steel content varies heavily depending on the static requirements. Its heavier because basic carbon steel has a density of 7874 kg/m³ which would mean 123031.25 kg per block. The entire space respawn pod weights 95394.59 kg with inventory. So our beloved heavy armor block is actually mostly empty space ;-).
On a more practical note I like this idea but I would suggest two tiers of concrete basic and steel reinforced. Basic concrete would be heavier than heavy armor but only a somewhere in between light and heavy armor in toughness. It’s a cheap alternative for building bases or ships if you want to go as cheap as possible (there is historic precedence after all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_ship)
Steel reinforced concrete needs steel girders in addition to loads of gravel. It would still be cheaper than heavy armor, but way tougher and heavier. Give us a 45000 kg block! I don't think people using it for ships is going to be a problem then.
Bases however need a boost. They are far to vulnerable to blasting from afar and can’t be relocated. Everybody’s favorite space catgirl regularly lectures how you should always use a ship instead of a base. So giving us a way to make it ridiculously tough to shoot it to bits on a reasonable budget should give them at least some purpose in multiplayer. It is also very realistic, after all meter thick steel reinforced concrete is ridiculously hard to blast through in real life. I mean just look at the shells the Germans thought they needed to defeat the Maginot line:
The gun that fired these babies had a 32.5 meter long barrel and had a weight of 1350 tons. Oh and before anyone suggest this gun for space engineers, I don't think those shells could be moved through a conveyor ;-).
I wanted to add a few interesting facts to this topic.
Lets start with our beloved heavy armor block. It weighs 3000 kg and has a volume of 15,625 m³ like all full large blocks. That gives us a density of 192 kg/m³
The lightest currently possible concrete is 350 kg/m³ which uses highly porous stones with as much as 85% porosity and adds Polystyrene balls on top of that. Its mostly used for insulation as it is, unsurprisingly, not that tough. This would give us 5468.75 per block already.
Less extreme types of lightweight concretes are between 800 kg/m³ and 2000 kg/m³ so a block would weigh between 12500 kg and 31250 kg or about 4 to 10 times heavier than our heavy armor block.
Normal concrete has around 2400 kg/m³ which means 37500 kg a block or 12.5 times heavier than a heavy armor block. Its decently tough but nowhere near steel.
Steel reinforced concrete is even heavier but much tougher. You really can’t give a density here since the steel content varies heavily depending on the static requirements. Its heavier because basic carbon steel has a density of 7874 kg/m³ which would mean 123031.25 kg per block. The entire space respawn pod weights 95394.59 kg with inventory. So our beloved heavy armor block is actually mostly empty space ;-).
On a more practical note I like this idea but I would suggest two tiers of concrete basic and steel reinforced. Basic concrete would be heavier than heavy armor but only a somewhere in between light and heavy armor in toughness. It’s a cheap alternative for building bases or ships if you want to go as cheap as possible (there is historic precedence after all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_ship)
Steel reinforced concrete needs steel girders in addition to loads of gravel. It would still be cheaper than heavy armor, but way tougher and heavier. Give us a 45000 kg block! I don't think people using it for ships is going to be a problem then.
Bases however need a boost. They are far to vulnerable to blasting from afar and can’t be relocated. Everybody’s favorite space catgirl regularly lectures how you should always use a ship instead of a base. So giving us a way to make it ridiculously tough to shoot it to bits on a reasonable budget should give them at least some purpose in multiplayer. It is also very realistic, after all meter thick steel reinforced concrete is ridiculously hard to blast through in real life. I mean just look at the shells the Germans thought they needed to defeat the Maginot line:
The gun that fired these babies had a 32.5 meter long barrel and had a weight of 1350 tons. Oh and before anyone suggest this gun for space engineers, I don't think those shells could be moved through a conveyor ;-).
Imo, concrete blocks SHOULD be voxel blocks. There must be a way for players to terraform voxel, and an artificial way would be concrete
Imo, concrete blocks SHOULD be voxel blocks. There must be a way for players to terraform voxel, and an artificial way would be concrete
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