A way to find other players or grids in the vastness of Space
Hello!
Now that multiplayer is finally working as intended I think there will be a lot of need for some way of finding and "interacting" (in a PVP way in most cases) with other players.
As the game world is very large, being together with other people in a server won't matter if you don't have a way to know where they are and the whole experience will reduce itself to a single player or small group of friends experience (which can be achieved without a dedicated server) with the addition of being able to chat with other guys you'll never meet. That's pretty reductive for the game SE is starting to become.
Right now on mp tests and since mp launch, people who want some pvp have to join other factions in some sneaky way, grab base coordinates and then plan an attack, or maybe look on discord or forums for any screenshot or pasted coordinate that could hint to where other players are building. That's kinda lame and also very "unimmersive" imho.
So I would like, if possible, some balanced (as in VEEERY expensive and limited in its use) way to be able to detect other characters or grids whereabouts.
It would also be nice for it to work better in space than on planets (lots of "interference" on the ground compared to space) as it would push people towards planets even after leaving one just to have a lower chance of being detected.
Hope Keen considers this.
Thanks and feel free to add any reasonable detail you think could help this idea!
I like this feedback
I find this is a very common occurrence during server play! Digging through enemy faction discords, playing spies and accessing other medical rooms. Not only is it unintuitive but it is something that greatly affects gameplay. The solution proposed by the author of this thread (a device limited in use and extraordinarily expensive to locate enemy grids) would provide a means to co-ordinated attacks and more developed gameplay. I would like to see some attention on this issue and more possible solutions though!
I find this is a very common occurrence during server play! Digging through enemy faction discords, playing spies and accessing other medical rooms. Not only is it unintuitive but it is something that greatly affects gameplay. The solution proposed by the author of this thread (a device limited in use and extraordinarily expensive to locate enemy grids) would provide a means to co-ordinated attacks and more developed gameplay. I would like to see some attention on this issue and more possible solutions though!
with the new hardware specs i would suggest looking at the holographic radar mod by shao
with the new hardware specs i would suggest looking at the holographic radar mod by shao
What about some sort of radar that was based on the collison anticipation code, or perhaps a raycast. The player can detect grids in the immediate area based on their size (ie the smaller the grid the closer you need to get). Mabe heavy armor has a greater detectability and encourage players to build squishy stealth ships.
What about some sort of radar that was based on the collison anticipation code, or perhaps a raycast. The player can detect grids in the immediate area based on their size (ie the smaller the grid the closer you need to get). Mabe heavy armor has a greater detectability and encourage players to build squishy stealth ships.
I love the idea of active radar and scanning -- and I run Midspace's exploration ship scan and tyrsis's Active Radar on my PVE server.
Unfortunately, effective radar doesn't really work well for PVP servers because of the asynchronous nature of persistent universe gaming.
Imagine this very common scenario -- you've spent the better part of the last 4 weeks mining and refining ores into ingots and further into components and you've finally put together into an awesome ship that is ready to take off from the planet you've been stuck on for the better part of a month. But it is 3am and you have to sleep some time.
Then while you are asleep, someone in another timezone scans down your station (and hot new ship) -- and even if you've got lots of guns all around your station, if we are assuming that the hostile player is even mildly persistent, you are going to lose your ship and base along with 4 weeks worth of your efforts.
Even old standards like Eve Online don't have a good answer for how you allow PVP combat so that both parties are properly represented by equally balanced live players during the PVP. Any type of effective Radar mechanic is going to require someone to design a smart and fair PVP into the persistent universe game loop.
What are your thoughts on how to set up PVP to be fair for all players involved?
I love the idea of active radar and scanning -- and I run Midspace's exploration ship scan and tyrsis's Active Radar on my PVE server.
Unfortunately, effective radar doesn't really work well for PVP servers because of the asynchronous nature of persistent universe gaming.
Imagine this very common scenario -- you've spent the better part of the last 4 weeks mining and refining ores into ingots and further into components and you've finally put together into an awesome ship that is ready to take off from the planet you've been stuck on for the better part of a month. But it is 3am and you have to sleep some time.
Then while you are asleep, someone in another timezone scans down your station (and hot new ship) -- and even if you've got lots of guns all around your station, if we are assuming that the hostile player is even mildly persistent, you are going to lose your ship and base along with 4 weeks worth of your efforts.
Even old standards like Eve Online don't have a good answer for how you allow PVP combat so that both parties are properly represented by equally balanced live players during the PVP. Any type of effective Radar mechanic is going to require someone to design a smart and fair PVP into the persistent universe game loop.
What are your thoughts on how to set up PVP to be fair for all players involved?
perhaps have it that only large factions fight pvp, so that they always have like 3 players on at same time. so defences would not be unmanned.
perhaps have it that only large factions fight pvp, so that they always have like 3 players on at same time. so defences would not be unmanned.
Mhm..not sure why this doesn't appear on the list of ideas anymore, anyone got a clue? If I go to the home page (https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/), click on all ideas and then order them by popularity (https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topics/idea/status/all/category/all/sort/popular/page/1), my topic doesn't appear where it should be (having 15 votes).
Is this a bug? Did I forget to check something when posting?
Mhm..not sure why this doesn't appear on the list of ideas anymore, anyone got a clue? If I go to the home page (https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/), click on all ideas and then order them by popularity (https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topics/idea/status/all/category/all/sort/popular/page/1), my topic doesn't appear where it should be (having 15 votes).
Is this a bug? Did I forget to check something when posting?
I think problem is in 'world' design.
Most servers use vanilla 'star system' world, some use modded but there are not many of them. Game currently is about getting resources and these are avaiable literally everywhere. So people are scattered everywhere and can access all resources everywhere. (only platinum being locked to space)
If world had particular interesting locations that attract people, PvP (and trading) would emerge naturally.
'Scarce resources' mod does great job by making planets uniqe with resources they hold. I'd go even deeper and make planets have regions/bioms which have some resources much more common, or even exclusive.
Just for example in 'Scarce resources' mod Earth contains Iron, Nickel, Cobalt, Silicon, Ice, Magnesium ONLY. If we make some of these resources limited to desert/high mountains/pole caps we will get some narrower areas to search trough for other players bases, mining outposts, landed ships.
As for radars I like Idea but as few stated there's issue with balance and 'offline raiding'.
One of ways to avoid 'night scanning' could be to make radar detect players instead of grids. Players would also have to be online to be able to get detected and they should get appropriate message about that. Radar should point in direction where enemy player is with randomized (and based on distance) deviation from true position. This would disallow to pinpoint someone's location in seconds but could give a clue where to look for enemy (closer you get more precise it becomes).
I think problem is in 'world' design.
Most servers use vanilla 'star system' world, some use modded but there are not many of them. Game currently is about getting resources and these are avaiable literally everywhere. So people are scattered everywhere and can access all resources everywhere. (only platinum being locked to space)
If world had particular interesting locations that attract people, PvP (and trading) would emerge naturally.
'Scarce resources' mod does great job by making planets uniqe with resources they hold. I'd go even deeper and make planets have regions/bioms which have some resources much more common, or even exclusive.
Just for example in 'Scarce resources' mod Earth contains Iron, Nickel, Cobalt, Silicon, Ice, Magnesium ONLY. If we make some of these resources limited to desert/high mountains/pole caps we will get some narrower areas to search trough for other players bases, mining outposts, landed ships.
As for radars I like Idea but as few stated there's issue with balance and 'offline raiding'.
One of ways to avoid 'night scanning' could be to make radar detect players instead of grids. Players would also have to be online to be able to get detected and they should get appropriate message about that. Radar should point in direction where enemy player is with randomized (and based on distance) deviation from true position. This would disallow to pinpoint someone's location in seconds but could give a clue where to look for enemy (closer you get more precise it becomes).
Wouldnt a better way than having a Radar or something would be more customization of the worlds you can generate . I read somewhere the other day of a server removing all the roids and having a beacon roid field where players had to mine to get resources .
Something like this would create a risk v reward and also keep people asleep somewhat safe as they are
Wouldnt a better way than having a Radar or something would be more customization of the worlds you can generate . I read somewhere the other day of a server removing all the roids and having a beacon roid field where players had to mine to get resources .
Something like this would create a risk v reward and also keep people asleep somewhat safe as they are
I want to find other players to interact with them. Trade resources with them. But not grief them when they're offline.
I want to find other players to interact with them. Trade resources with them. But not grief them when they're offline.
Hello, unfortunatelly there is no plan for radar to SE1. We leave all options to server admins now, we have added safe zones which increases usable possibilities.
Hello, unfortunatelly there is no plan for radar to SE1. We leave all options to server admins now, we have added safe zones which increases usable possibilities.
Maybe some sort of wormhole that can teleport you to a random encounter (player grid). You can disable this feature and weither or not you want the consequences to remain or not. If not then you won't be rewarded from the scrap left behind. If you lose youll engineer will wake in whatever entered the wormhole as if he dreamed it up. If the defender loses then there may be an escape worm hole so the defender can run at anytime. If defender escapes they too can wake up in their med bay as if nothing happened. Depending on what enters the hole it will match up to some random gird similar in size or equipment. A grid that is willing to defend and allow attacks or a grid that seeks to find random worm holes for attacks will require some sort of block as a sort of lore behind the worms holes "without this block you wouldn't be able to travel through wormholes safely, severe damage can occur inside one due to rabdom derby, lack of oxygen, etc. WARNING: THIS BLOCK IS KNOW TO CAUSE HALLUCINATIONS OF PASSED TRAMA."
Maybe some sort of wormhole that can teleport you to a random encounter (player grid). You can disable this feature and weither or not you want the consequences to remain or not. If not then you won't be rewarded from the scrap left behind. If you lose youll engineer will wake in whatever entered the wormhole as if he dreamed it up. If the defender loses then there may be an escape worm hole so the defender can run at anytime. If defender escapes they too can wake up in their med bay as if nothing happened. Depending on what enters the hole it will match up to some random gird similar in size or equipment. A grid that is willing to defend and allow attacks or a grid that seeks to find random worm holes for attacks will require some sort of block as a sort of lore behind the worms holes "without this block you wouldn't be able to travel through wormholes safely, severe damage can occur inside one due to rabdom derby, lack of oxygen, etc. WARNING: THIS BLOCK IS KNOW TO CAUSE HALLUCINATIONS OF PASSED TRAMA."
I've discussed this with others and my suggestions here are:
1: Trade stations - a single place where players have to go eventually to get rare materials or trade. I made the Frontier Economy mod for this very purpose. Make multiple stations and you have trade routes to pirate..
2: An "investigate unknown signal" type of system that randomly directs players to nearby abandoned ships or stations from players that have not logged in for several months, in addition to the usual "player skin" unknown signals - i wanted to make a mission system in economy something like this as one of the "random missions" (however ive not been able to work out how to do this just yet)
3: Jump drive malfunctions could conveniently throw you out near other players perhaps..
Beyond that I cant see any safe ways to do this other than adding addictional plot elements or roleplay structures to the game. (eg the need to be near another player to complete missions or something - eg strong signals might need players to press two buttons to get the bonus etc)
I've discussed this with others and my suggestions here are:
1: Trade stations - a single place where players have to go eventually to get rare materials or trade. I made the Frontier Economy mod for this very purpose. Make multiple stations and you have trade routes to pirate..
2: An "investigate unknown signal" type of system that randomly directs players to nearby abandoned ships or stations from players that have not logged in for several months, in addition to the usual "player skin" unknown signals - i wanted to make a mission system in economy something like this as one of the "random missions" (however ive not been able to work out how to do this just yet)
3: Jump drive malfunctions could conveniently throw you out near other players perhaps..
Beyond that I cant see any safe ways to do this other than adding addictional plot elements or roleplay structures to the game. (eg the need to be near another player to complete missions or something - eg strong signals might need players to press two buttons to get the bonus etc)
I think that some intelligent design of the text communication in a vanilla server not just being global and requiring antennas and the like i s how this should work. All in game mechanics and you could 'Hail' as you'd expect when you do find someone. I doubt they'll do anything with that.
I think that some intelligent design of the text communication in a vanilla server not just being global and requiring antennas and the like i s how this should work. All in game mechanics and you could 'Hail' as you'd expect when you do find someone. I doubt they'll do anything with that.
Feature added! You will be found. Good work Keen! Happy trolling...
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/v1-189-spawn-near-players-system
Feature added! You will be found. Good work Keen! Happy trolling...
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/v1-189-spawn-near-players-system
this is a feature that has been needed for a VERY long time, the way it should be implemented though is similar to the way that the archaeology skill works in WOW, where you press a button (pressing this button could drain a ton of power out of batteries for instance similar to how a jump drive consumes power), when you press this button it then gives you a flat number representing what we'll call "heat" and the value of the heat is something you could see on a three dimensional heat map of all the grids in the space, where lots of grids in a single area would cause lots of heat and slowly dissipate with distance but never reach 0
this is a feature that has been needed for a VERY long time, the way it should be implemented though is similar to the way that the archaeology skill works in WOW, where you press a button (pressing this button could drain a ton of power out of batteries for instance similar to how a jump drive consumes power), when you press this button it then gives you a flat number representing what we'll call "heat" and the value of the heat is something you could see on a three dimensional heat map of all the grids in the space, where lots of grids in a single area would cause lots of heat and slowly dissipate with distance but never reach 0
As it stands RIght now there is a way to find other players while they are online, The Strong Signals for loot drops will randomly spawn near other players that are actively online. You can use these to get an Idea of where someone is at (general Location), save the gps location and try to search for them.
In all honesty if you give players a tool to find grids without an active player it will make it much easier to grief players that are not online.
As it stands RIght now there is a way to find other players while they are online, The Strong Signals for loot drops will randomly spawn near other players that are actively online. You can use these to get an Idea of where someone is at (general Location), save the gps location and try to search for them.
In all honesty if you give players a tool to find grids without an active player it will make it much easier to grief players that are not online.
so basically a radar?
so basically a radar?
A deep space scanner would be a great mod / addition to the game, something that takes time to 'scan' an area, then gives you a heatmap or something that hints at where there might be grids or ores (but doesnt tell you directly)
A deep space scanner would be a great mod / addition to the game, something that takes time to 'scan' an area, then gives you a heatmap or something that hints at where there might be grids or ores (but doesnt tell you directly)
Depends a little bit how this is being implemented.
> If there is a scanning mechanic - Good
> If there are ways to "hide" - Better
> If there is a system where player one can share their location with player 2 - Good
> A list of all entities and players with location - horrible
I would vote/pay a lot for a complete scanning DLC/overhaul. Where heat, Electronic waves etc are considered.
Depends a little bit how this is being implemented.
> If there is a scanning mechanic - Good
> If there are ways to "hide" - Better
> If there is a system where player one can share their location with player 2 - Good
> A list of all entities and players with location - horrible
I would vote/pay a lot for a complete scanning DLC/overhaul. Where heat, Electronic waves etc are considered.
Well they did ultimately implement trade stations in keen economy - which make for choke points and can be found using the datapad gps points.
But the bounty system also facilitates this too - maybe tweak that more so enemy players attract bounties, loose rank if they attack your owned grids(that is another issue actually player vs player faction reputation changes +/- are missing), or pirate player trade stations can also give out bounties on good players who attack pirates grids too much.
The strong signals missions also allow this. Perhaps require two buttons to be pressed on those, that forces players to meet each other to open strong signals. At the moment strong signals only appear if more than one player is online, but it's a first come first served type thing.
Or add a simple mechanic that /requires/ a player to go to a trade station occaisionally for something (perhaps a resource or function that is only availble at stations) it has to be something important enough to motivate a player, but minor enough players trapped on planets or in deep space will be able to progress if they have not found a station yet. (perhaps a licence or unlock for some high tier objects/blocks/tools that a player can struggle on without if needed)
Well they did ultimately implement trade stations in keen economy - which make for choke points and can be found using the datapad gps points.
But the bounty system also facilitates this too - maybe tweak that more so enemy players attract bounties, loose rank if they attack your owned grids(that is another issue actually player vs player faction reputation changes +/- are missing), or pirate player trade stations can also give out bounties on good players who attack pirates grids too much.
The strong signals missions also allow this. Perhaps require two buttons to be pressed on those, that forces players to meet each other to open strong signals. At the moment strong signals only appear if more than one player is online, but it's a first come first served type thing.
Or add a simple mechanic that /requires/ a player to go to a trade station occaisionally for something (perhaps a resource or function that is only availble at stations) it has to be something important enough to motivate a player, but minor enough players trapped on planets or in deep space will be able to progress if they have not found a station yet. (perhaps a licence or unlock for some high tier objects/blocks/tools that a player can struggle on without if needed)
How do I down vote this. This is basically asking for help to force interaction with someone who does not want to interact with you. Set up a pvp event and invite participation.
How do I down vote this. This is basically asking for help to force interaction with someone who does not want to interact with you. Set up a pvp event and invite participation.
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