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Don't add EMPs, nothing but griefing tool

captainbladej52 shared this feedback ago

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As the title suggests, EMPs are a terrible thing to add to this game. While I like to think Keen are well intentioned and don't mean any harm, what Keen intends and what people do aren't always the same thing. I'm granting that right now as I type this on the Sept 11th we have limited info on their implementation, however based on available info I stand by the statement they will be nothing but a griefing tool, especially if they can bypass safe zones. Because at that point safe zones may as well not even exist.

EMPs will not be used the way Keen thinks they will and will just be another tool for griefers to harass people. By nature of what they are, it becomes an instant "I win" button that harms another person's grid with little to no counter. First to get an EMP off gets an automatic win. There is no counter, there is no fighting back. It's just poof your grid is offline. Missiles at least can be dodged, fooled, or shot down. Armor and energy shields can be overwhelmed by constantly peppering them, and warheads have to be carried by something else or built on site. There are tangible ways to get around things like this. An EMP is just show up, push a button and poof.

EMPs fall into the same category as Jump Inhibitors that allow an instant "I win" purely by their nature and their existence. It's just instant uncounterable win-con. Press a button, you get your "I win" effect and will be used to troll people just like Jump Inhibitors would be. No person should have that kind of power in a game like this and it just encourages toxic behavior among the playerbase.

"But it's a Factorum weapon meaning it will be rare.": So what, it's still an instant "I win" and a grifer's wet dream tool. I don't trust anyone with that kind of power.

"But EMPs are a real weapon.": Simply because it's a real world thing doesn't automatically mean it needs to be added to the game. There's plenty of real world forces and things that could be added to game, but they don't make for fun or engaging game mechanics. Ammo racking can happen in reality, but it's a crap mechanic in a video game. G-lock is a real world thing that can cause a pilot to pass out and crash, but it's a crap mechanic to have in a video game. Games should be fun first, realism second. If folks want a hyper-realistic game, SE has never been the game for that.

"real warfare isn't supposed to be fair.": Except this isn't a real life war we're talking about, but a video game combat system. If I wanted an unbalanced nightmare I would go play CoD or some similar game. IRL yes, you don't want it to be fair and you want it to be as unbalanced in possible in favor of your team because people can actually get killed. Except again, we're not dealing with that here. This is fictional combat in a fictional game meant to be fun. If folks want hyper-realistic stuff there are better games than SE for that.

If they are hell-bent on adding EMPs, they need to be off by default though it would be better if they just didn't add them at all. Again an energy shield can be overwhelmed just like stronger armor, missiles can be dodged or shot down or confused, and similar. Even Jump Detection doesn't give you an automatic "I win" on its own. You still need to plan your next moves and how to best use that info. EMPs require no planning, you just press a button and poof.

The only possible saving grace is if they were like Ion Turrets from Star Wars where you could see them coming, dodge the bolts, and similar. Even then for a game like SE I still maintain they would be OP but at least in that form there's SOME measure of counterplay there.

I'm willing to hear Keen out on their implementation ONLY because it's Keen. However based off what we have now at the time of drafting this, It's a big fat nope from me and something I will find a way to nullify on day one just like with ammo racking.

I like this feedback

Replies (4)

captainbladej52 ●

Should've added this at the time but, another thing for folks to consider. If you think the railgun meta is toxic, EMPs open the door for an even more toxic meta. All you will see is EMP drones rolling in disabling everything, then your opponents roll in and steamroll you and you don't even get to fight back. That is not balanced at all. Do folks really want to replace one toxic meta with another? because that's what you will get with EMPs.

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error 404 ●

Do it, implement the EPM so this whiny snowflakes have something to cry about.

I hope it can turn off people's safezones.

I hope it can fry players hiding in a safe zone.

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captainbladej52 ●

And there's the no skill shills right on schedule that can't win without magic cheat blocks

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error 404 ●

No magic, legitimate features.

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captainbladej52 ●

No, it's a straight up cheat block for the unskilled who need a handicap in order to win a fight and nothing but a griefing tool. Your initial post proved my point for me as did this latest response.

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Matt ●

it is looking like to activate the EMP you need to be within a certain distance if you are wanting to avoid getting EMP'ed just dont let someone get close to you are have your own to fire before the enemy fires its EMP. also in my opinion i think the EMP charge time after use will be a lengthy charge which would be longer than the effects of the EMP otherwise yes you would get trapped in a EMP loop and it would be a straight up win. however from listening to the information we have so far on the EMPs it could be possible it may have 2 different settings 1 for ships and 1 for anti suits so if your ship gets disabled then it would be a case of suiting to the enemy ship and attempt to board it.

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error 404 ●

I said legitimate feature as in not a hack, exploit or a plugin. You whiners even complain about bounties being an exploit, and they are not.

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_ _ _ ●

As I said many times earlier, an EMP should affect its own grid (stronger, because it is closer), just like real life. It should not depower the grid, but rather turn specific blocks off (or on if they were previously off). The number of blocks affected should depend on distance and grid size

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error 404 ●

You are assuming it is a EMP from a nuclear blast, if it is a special weapon it can have a focused beam and not affect whole area around it. and itself. Same as directional antennas.

What example did you have in mind when you stated "just like real life"?

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captainbladej52 ●

@Matt: Which just means the "meta" will go from railgun spam to EMP drone spam. I'm well aware of what they said but based off what we have now it doesn't change my stance at all that EMPs don't need to be a thing at all. Especially since they've been talking like it can disable entire grids. I would love to see my concerns and those of everyone be overblown because this is Keen. And it's only because it's Keen I'm willing to hear them out. At the very least I'm getting my concerns out there now while there is still potentially some time for them to address it. If they can somehow pull off a miracle and thread the needle to where it's not a busted OP monstrosity then I will give credit where it's due. That said I'm not a fan of any block type where people can just press one button and cause instant nigh uncounterable harm to another's grid purely by that block existing. Which is why I will never support Jump Inhibitors either because certain blocks are just troll blocks in my book that exist purely for folks to grief. EMPs fall into that category in my book as well of things that shouldn't exist in game.

Like I said to the other guy, weapons can be destroyed, dodged, or confused, armor and energy shields (if they ever became a thing) can be overwhelmed and overcame, and even the jump tracking doesn't grant an automatic win as folks still have to actually chase the other person down and not get rolled.

@error 404: I don't give a crap about bounties as folks can either use them or not use them. Read what's being said to you before shooting your mouth off. The issue is the ability of the EMP to harm another's grid with little to no counter purely by existing and pressing a button. Bounties don't do that purely by existing, heck even warheads still have to be delivered in some way typically through a missile or someone sneaking onto a person's base and building it on site. You're forgetting as well that even though it's factorum that the factorum assmembler and refinery still exist meaning people can go back and make their own factorum blocks once they have those. Only thing they can't readily manufacture is frames, but those can be acquired easily enough. After that you're off to the races. I'm opposed to ANY block that can automatically harm another's grid by button push simply by existing. It's unskilled cheaty gameplay for people who can't win without handicaps. If the EMP couldn't harm another's grid purely by existing and just pressing one button, I wouldn't be here now.

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error 404 ●

lol,any weapon can "automatically harm another's grid" that function is not limited to EMP.

I would encourage you to wait and see in what form they release it and complain with useless walls of text after, not before.

Also the reality of PVP servers is this is a game with weapons and people will attack each other, if that is something you dont like you should consider PVE servers or single player. Dont get angry with players who are just playing the game.

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captainbladej52 ●

@error 404: read what's being said to you instead of just trying to cherry pick and mince words. Because I plainly said "harm another's grid purely by existing". Even a warhead cannot harm a grid purely by existing. They must be delivered to the perfect location or they're not going to be nearly as effective and require far more thought than an EMP ever will. The more you keep making excuses the more you prove my point that some people will just use them to troll and grief.

When one single block on its own can change the entire balance of power for a server, you've got an issue. Warheads, jump drives, and so on do not have this ability. EMPs remove the engineering aspect from an engineering game and it's purely whoever has the most EMPs. You can hide behind "walls of text" as an excuse but you just prove my point for me the more you do.

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error 404 ●

Duh obviously we will troll land grief, its part of the fun.

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captainbladej52 ●

@error 404: thanks for proving why it shouldn't be added and admitting you just want to troll. add that trolly crap on your own server and leave the rest of us out of it.

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error 404 ●

Its a multiplayer game with weapons, friendo, if you cant take it got to a PVE server or single player.

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captainbladej52 ●

@error 404: OR in a game about ENGINEERING that has pvp as a possibility you could try a case of "git good" and actually learn how to engineer your ships better instead of demanding what amounts to a cheat block because you're not good enough to win otherwise.

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error 404 ●

Its an in game official block, no cheating in it. How about you "git good" and learn to engineer good defences against EMP strikes :D

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captainbladej52 ●

@error 404: so you can't win without a magic button to bypass all engineering in an engineering game, thanks for confirming.

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4Peace ●

If the idea behind EMP is to trap an enemy from escaping with a jump drive, then yeah, I don't like it either. A much better approach would be "nerfing" it in a way that it requires you not accelerate in order to jump.

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Unknown Entity ●

The “I win button” is a good idea actually. I really hope we can disable safe zones and stop players from jumping as I’m shooting them. They can’t get away and they lose the ship. Or I follow their jump, EMP blast, disable their ship, safe zone and blow up everything they own ☠🔥🤞.

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captainbladej52 ●

Or you could just get good instead of demanding what amounts to a cheat block because you're not good enough to beat that other person in an engineering vs engineering challenge. The more you trolls show up the more you prove why EMPs are a bad idea. If you can't win without magic cheat blocks like EMPs, the problem isn't the game, the problem is you.

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error 404 ●

hey captainbladej52, what server do you play on? I cant wait to use the new EMP to attack players with.

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