The change to the trigger point of the warning causes the game to inaccurately report that I'm running out of fuel when this is not the case. I find myself ignoring the alarm and dying to the assumption that I have a bottle left more often than I ever died to the short warning in the previous version.
This is a pretty significant UX regression and it has me turning off the audible alerts entirely. Activities like building vehicles in a gravity well now cause this alarm to incorrectly trigger frequently, causing alarm fatigue.
edit: I see a similar report was moved to feedback, with comments that suggest the moderator does not fully understand the issue. This is a user experience regression that renders the LOW FUEL warning even less useful than it was before when playing with hydrogen bottles. It is so blatantly a regression that I assumed it was a broken mod interaction and started troubleshooting it as such before realizing that it was present in vanilla.
That this change was part of "efforts to IMPROVE the user experience" is itself a strong argument that this is indeed a bug. The issue is not in the changed behavior, but how it interacts with another system; a classic bug.
I like this feedback
Hello Chris,
Thank you for reaching out to us on our Support Forum.
We would like to let you know that this is not a bug, but rather the result of a fuel warning fix that was implemented as part of the Prosperity Update.
We understand that this change may cause some inconvenience. However, it was introduced as part of our ongoing efforts to improve the overall user experience and is currently working as intended.
To ensure your feedback on this experience is properly reviewed by the team, we will be moving this thread to the Feedback section of the forum, where all suggestions and feedback are collected and considered for future improvements.
Thank you for your understanding and for helping us make Space Engineers better.
Kind Regards,
Keen Software House: QA Department
Hello Chris,
Thank you for reaching out to us on our Support Forum.
We would like to let you know that this is not a bug, but rather the result of a fuel warning fix that was implemented as part of the Prosperity Update.
We understand that this change may cause some inconvenience. However, it was introduced as part of our ongoing efforts to improve the overall user experience and is currently working as intended.
To ensure your feedback on this experience is properly reviewed by the team, we will be moving this thread to the Feedback section of the forum, where all suggestions and feedback are collected and considered for future improvements.
Thank you for your understanding and for helping us make Space Engineers better.
Kind Regards,
Keen Software House: QA Department
Hello Engineer,
Thank you for taking the time to explain your concerns in more detail.
We understand your point regarding the user experience, especially how the current "Low fuel" warning behaves when using hydrogen bottles. We have checked this internally, and we can confirm that the current behavior is working as intended.
With that in mind, we are going to move this thread to the Feedback section - merge it with the one that is already existing there. This does not mean that your concerns are being dismissed. On the contrary, the Feedback section is the appropriate place for discussions about design decisions and user experience, and it gives our designers and other teams the opportunity to review player suggestions and consider them for future improvements.
We appreciate you taking the time to explain why you believe the current behavior could be improved, and we will leave your feedback there for further consideration.
Thank you for helping us improve the game.
Kind Regards,
Keen Software House: QA Department
Hello Engineer,
Thank you for taking the time to explain your concerns in more detail.
We understand your point regarding the user experience, especially how the current "Low fuel" warning behaves when using hydrogen bottles. We have checked this internally, and we can confirm that the current behavior is working as intended.
With that in mind, we are going to move this thread to the Feedback section - merge it with the one that is already existing there. This does not mean that your concerns are being dismissed. On the contrary, the Feedback section is the appropriate place for discussions about design decisions and user experience, and it gives our designers and other teams the opportunity to review player suggestions and consider them for future improvements.
We appreciate you taking the time to explain why you believe the current behavior could be improved, and we will leave your feedback there for further consideration.
Thank you for helping us improve the game.
Kind Regards,
Keen Software House: QA Department
I'm very disappointed to read that this behaviour is 'working as intended'.
Creating a situation that's frustrating for players while trying to make something better shouldn't ever be the goal of an update and that's precisely what this change has done.
I think the optimal fix is to make the bottles refill the suit whenever it is below 50 or 60% meaning that the warning only triggers when it's actually useful and for an example of how well this works (and for players who end up coming to this post hoping for a solution) this mod solves it in precisely this manner:
"No Fuel Low" by Mincio https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3776977911
I'm very disappointed to read that this behaviour is 'working as intended'.
Creating a situation that's frustrating for players while trying to make something better shouldn't ever be the goal of an update and that's precisely what this change has done.
I think the optimal fix is to make the bottles refill the suit whenever it is below 50 or 60% meaning that the warning only triggers when it's actually useful and for an example of how well this works (and for players who end up coming to this post hoping for a solution) this mod solves it in precisely this manner:
"No Fuel Low" by Mincio https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3776977911
Alternatively, I think it would be nice if the HUD showed the combined oxygen and hydrogen of the suit plus the bottles in the player's inventory, and then base the low oxygen/hydrogen alerts on a percentage of the overall capacity. I assume that would be more work to implement though.
Alternatively, I think it would be nice if the HUD showed the combined oxygen and hydrogen of the suit plus the bottles in the player's inventory, and then base the low oxygen/hydrogen alerts on a percentage of the overall capacity. I assume that would be more work to implement though.
Echoing all the existing comments here. As someone who spends 95% of building time in jetpack mode (Armed with 6+ H2 bottles) - hearing fuel low over 30 times before I actually have low fuel is really annoying.
Please adjust the numbers so a mod isn't needed for this - the fact it's showing in the top mods list on the workshop page should be telling enough that this annoys more people than can/have voted on this feedback platform :-)
Echoing all the existing comments here. As someone who spends 95% of building time in jetpack mode (Armed with 6+ H2 bottles) - hearing fuel low over 30 times before I actually have low fuel is really annoying.
Please adjust the numbers so a mod isn't needed for this - the fact it's showing in the top mods list on the workshop page should be telling enough that this annoys more people than can/have voted on this feedback platform :-)
Without adding to the ‘Cracked record’ , Suit Low Lady has been broken for years. Now we have gone from ‘Fuel Critical’ to Dead in 2 seconds, to being warned continuously every 30 x seconds.
Thanks Splitsie for highlighting “ No Fuel Low” Mod which should be the base game approach IMHO
But what do I know as I only have 1,200 hours in SE
TdR
Without adding to the ‘Cracked record’ , Suit Low Lady has been broken for years. Now we have gone from ‘Fuel Critical’ to Dead in 2 seconds, to being warned continuously every 30 x seconds.
Thanks Splitsie for highlighting “ No Fuel Low” Mod which should be the base game approach IMHO
But what do I know as I only have 1,200 hours in SE
TdR
"Working as intended".. Then your intention is wrong. Imagine driving down the road and your car suddenly says "low fuel".. and you look down and you have 99% tank.. and then you drive along and you hear it again "low fuel".. you look down 98% fuel..
You go to your car dealer for the "bug" and they say "this is not a bug, every time you go down a percent, it warns you, it's working as intended".. You would flip your lid..
Imagine a flood warning going off every time it rains... "well, it COULD FLOOD if the rain continues for days".. "yeah, water means floor is possible... working as intended".. You have no way to know if there IS a flood or "a small amount of rain somewhere"..
You need to reevaluate your intentions..
"Working as intended".. Then your intention is wrong. Imagine driving down the road and your car suddenly says "low fuel".. and you look down and you have 99% tank.. and then you drive along and you hear it again "low fuel".. you look down 98% fuel..
You go to your car dealer for the "bug" and they say "this is not a bug, every time you go down a percent, it warns you, it's working as intended".. You would flip your lid..
Imagine a flood warning going off every time it rains... "well, it COULD FLOOD if the rain continues for days".. "yeah, water means floor is possible... working as intended".. You have no way to know if there IS a flood or "a small amount of rain somewhere"..
You need to reevaluate your intentions..
I'm not mad, just disappointed. Do better Keen.
I'm not mad, just disappointed. Do better Keen.
Chiming in to add another voice. Either's Splitsie's solution of refilling earlier or 2bithacker's solution of basing the fuel gauge and warnings on the combined capacity of suite + bottles would work, but pre-emptive "fuel low" when it's not really low is poorly thought out or a bug.
Chiming in to add another voice. Either's Splitsie's solution of refilling earlier or 2bithacker's solution of basing the fuel gauge and warnings on the combined capacity of suite + bottles would work, but pre-emptive "fuel low" when it's not really low is poorly thought out or a bug.
When I saw the last patch notes I hoped to see this annoying warning message that was not present before prosperity updated to be listed as fixed in the release notes. When I didn't I started searching if it was reported, but seen that this is working as intended I now need to know what is the intention here. As others pointed out this worked well until now and only warn us when the last bar was running low on fuel. Which to be honest, I agree it might be a little too late depending on the situation, but at least it was not misleading us every 30s.
When I saw the last patch notes I hoped to see this annoying warning message that was not present before prosperity updated to be listed as fixed in the release notes. When I didn't I started searching if it was reported, but seen that this is working as intended I now need to know what is the intention here. As others pointed out this worked well until now and only warn us when the last bar was running low on fuel. Which to be honest, I agree it might be a little too late depending on the situation, but at least it was not misleading us every 30s.
This should be changed so that "Fuel Low" is not said until your bottles have run out. The current situation creates a nuisance alarm where you are trained to ignore the "Fuel Low" warning. Currently, if you have h2 in your bottle, "Fuel Low" isn't true. When you see this, over and over, you learn to ignore it. Then, the final "Fuel Low" warning happens when you are actually out of h2, and you slam into the ground and die.
This is the same thing as people unplugging their fire alarms because they go off too frequently when they're cooking. I don't want people to die from a fire in their house, and I don't want people to die because the "Fuel Low" warning is now meaningless, and should be ignored.
(Thanks Splitsie for the excellent mod recommendation)
This should be changed so that "Fuel Low" is not said until your bottles have run out. The current situation creates a nuisance alarm where you are trained to ignore the "Fuel Low" warning. Currently, if you have h2 in your bottle, "Fuel Low" isn't true. When you see this, over and over, you learn to ignore it. Then, the final "Fuel Low" warning happens when you are actually out of h2, and you slam into the ground and die.
This is the same thing as people unplugging their fire alarms because they go off too frequently when they're cooking. I don't want people to die from a fire in their house, and I don't want people to die because the "Fuel Low" warning is now meaningless, and should be ignored.
(Thanks Splitsie for the excellent mod recommendation)
Look, I had to create an account for this, and could I have left it with a simple click of the "I like this feedback" Button, yes. But honestly this has been the most infuriating I have found SE in a while. As many have already pointed out, but I will continue to echo, continuous alarms of "Low Fuel" when I am still plenty full means I will eventually miss when my fuel is ACTUALLY low and either go hurtling into space somewhere or fall straight to my death. This bug (and yes, it is a bug) has made my playing of the game extremely irritating. I hear the Low fuel warning in my sleep.
Seriously this should be fixed. Like very quickly. This is quite possibly the dumbest thing you could've apparently intended to leave in the game. People should not have to rely on a mod to make a Base Game Mechanic bearable.
Look, I had to create an account for this, and could I have left it with a simple click of the "I like this feedback" Button, yes. But honestly this has been the most infuriating I have found SE in a while. As many have already pointed out, but I will continue to echo, continuous alarms of "Low Fuel" when I am still plenty full means I will eventually miss when my fuel is ACTUALLY low and either go hurtling into space somewhere or fall straight to my death. This bug (and yes, it is a bug) has made my playing of the game extremely irritating. I hear the Low fuel warning in my sleep.
Seriously this should be fixed. Like very quickly. This is quite possibly the dumbest thing you could've apparently intended to leave in the game. People should not have to rely on a mod to make a Base Game Mechanic bearable.
While I appreciate the earlier warning (the old warning came FAR too late and often didn't show up until I was already actively plummeting to my death), please make the warning dependent on whether or not there are bottles with fuel in the player inventory. Hell, if you insist on annoying the player with constant needless notifications like a smartphone with separation anxiety, at least change the notification to "fuel refilled" while I still have bottles leftover so I can distinguish between the different situations without having to keep my face glued to the HUD in stead of the actual game.
At the moment I am actively avoiding playing the game because of this annoyance.
PS: I know a mod exists to fix it but this should not be an issue that requires a mod to fix.
While I appreciate the earlier warning (the old warning came FAR too late and often didn't show up until I was already actively plummeting to my death), please make the warning dependent on whether or not there are bottles with fuel in the player inventory. Hell, if you insist on annoying the player with constant needless notifications like a smartphone with separation anxiety, at least change the notification to "fuel refilled" while I still have bottles leftover so I can distinguish between the different situations without having to keep my face glued to the HUD in stead of the actual game.
At the moment I am actively avoiding playing the game because of this annoyance.
PS: I know a mod exists to fix it but this should not be an issue that requires a mod to fix.
Ah yes, the "working as intended" annoying voice blaring in my ears every 30 seconds to "improve my experience".
Ah yes, the "working as intended" annoying voice blaring in my ears every 30 seconds to "improve my experience".
Hello Keen staff,
Thanks for explaining the systems are working as intended. With that context, I can see your rationale behind classifying this as "not a bug". Ultimately it matters far more to us how these interactions between intended behaviors worsen player experience than if systems are working as intended or not.
I'm sure some of the community wants to know how this wasn't caught in playtesting, or why this wasn't fixed in the two released hotfixes since the Prosperity update. I understand those may not be easy answers to give.
I'm more interested in hearing if and when Keen intends to fix this. It sounds like a simple fix, but what do I know.
Hello Keen staff,
Thanks for explaining the systems are working as intended. With that context, I can see your rationale behind classifying this as "not a bug". Ultimately it matters far more to us how these interactions between intended behaviors worsen player experience than if systems are working as intended or not.
I'm sure some of the community wants to know how this wasn't caught in playtesting, or why this wasn't fixed in the two released hotfixes since the Prosperity update. I understand those may not be easy answers to give.
I'm more interested in hearing if and when Keen intends to fix this. It sounds like a simple fix, but what do I know.
Well, Holy Clang this is a mess! How do you manage to go from a fuel low warning that activates as you are already plummeting to the ground, to a warning every 30 seconds and five fuel bottles? It's not even do you people know how to design a game, but rather how does this make any sense?!?
I was holding off installing the mod as I fully expected Keen to immediately patch this obvious QA oversight, but now it's declared a feature, I'll just mod it.
Well, Holy Clang this is a mess! How do you manage to go from a fuel low warning that activates as you are already plummeting to the ground, to a warning every 30 seconds and five fuel bottles? It's not even do you people know how to design a game, but rather how does this make any sense?!?
I was holding off installing the mod as I fully expected Keen to immediately patch this obvious QA oversight, but now it's declared a feature, I'll just mod it.
Somebody definitely should create a poll about this, since KSH seems to like looking incompetent about their games, or love being obnoxious...
Somebody definitely should create a poll about this, since KSH seems to like looking incompetent about their games, or love being obnoxious...
There is no way this could be considered "Working as intended" when it's not even working correctly. This is, by definition a bug and should be addressed ASAP.
There is no way this could be considered "Working as intended" when it's not even working correctly. This is, by definition a bug and should be addressed ASAP.
Just putting in my two pence but if a mod like the one linked here has been made and is the 6th most popular mod in the last month 2nd most popular in the last week or so. it's been out for all of week and change at this point you are look at a problem. I appreciate the change do not get me wrong at least I am not plummeting to my death most of the time however it seems like a glaring issue that should have been foreseen waaaaaay before it became part of the update.
Just putting in my two pence but if a mod like the one linked here has been made and is the 6th most popular mod in the last month 2nd most popular in the last week or so. it's been out for all of week and change at this point you are look at a problem. I appreciate the change do not get me wrong at least I am not plummeting to my death most of the time however it seems like a glaring issue that should have been foreseen waaaaaay before it became part of the update.
Just wondering. If this is actually working "AS INTENDED" are you then saying that you actually INTENDED to drive your user base insane? Before the prosperity update (which is a great update other than this issue) this NEVER happened! The sad part is you KNOW this never happened before, so why are you insisting that it's now "working as INTENDED?" Or, are you saying you did this on purpose?
After years of enjoying this game - even with it's odd bugs every now and then, this BUG is just more annoying then ones in the past because it's literally IN MY FACE EVERY FEW SECONDS when jet packing WITH FULL BOTTLES!
So, as a suggestion, instead of just replying that this "is working as intended" (which if true is a major change away from previous usage) how about you take the time to LISTEN to your INCOME (i.e., your user base) and make it work as your player base is used to it - AS INTENDED!
Thank you in advance for taking your player base into consideration when developing space engineers 1 further down the road and changing the "intended" annoying as poop message of "fuel low" that comes every 30 seconds when flying around in a jetpack even though we have several bottles full of fuel, back to what it was doing (correctly) BEFORE the prosperity update.
Perhaps you yourself could play the game with your favorite mods for a few hours and use the jetpack a bunch - and don't forget to have a few full bottles of hydrogen full on your person when doing so and see how long it takes for this "as intended" low fuel warning to get under your skin. Ya know, like the rest of your player base has/is done/doing.
Just wondering. If this is actually working "AS INTENDED" are you then saying that you actually INTENDED to drive your user base insane? Before the prosperity update (which is a great update other than this issue) this NEVER happened! The sad part is you KNOW this never happened before, so why are you insisting that it's now "working as INTENDED?" Or, are you saying you did this on purpose?
After years of enjoying this game - even with it's odd bugs every now and then, this BUG is just more annoying then ones in the past because it's literally IN MY FACE EVERY FEW SECONDS when jet packing WITH FULL BOTTLES!
So, as a suggestion, instead of just replying that this "is working as intended" (which if true is a major change away from previous usage) how about you take the time to LISTEN to your INCOME (i.e., your user base) and make it work as your player base is used to it - AS INTENDED!
Thank you in advance for taking your player base into consideration when developing space engineers 1 further down the road and changing the "intended" annoying as poop message of "fuel low" that comes every 30 seconds when flying around in a jetpack even though we have several bottles full of fuel, back to what it was doing (correctly) BEFORE the prosperity update.
Perhaps you yourself could play the game with your favorite mods for a few hours and use the jetpack a bunch - and don't forget to have a few full bottles of hydrogen full on your person when doing so and see how long it takes for this "as intended" low fuel warning to get under your skin. Ya know, like the rest of your player base has/is done/doing.
"Working as intended."
Do us a favour Keen. Start a game, go to a planet, and fly around with a hydrogen bottle and your jetpack and tell us how it's perfectly "working as intended" and not mindbendingly annoying to listen to the constant FUEL LOW warnings. Better yet, try not to get de-sensitised to the warnings and ignore them until you suddenly get FUEL CRITICAL and you fall to your death, which the FUEL LOW warning is SUPPOSED TO PREVENT!
Absolute tone-deaf insanity response Keen. Do better.
"Working as intended."
Do us a favour Keen. Start a game, go to a planet, and fly around with a hydrogen bottle and your jetpack and tell us how it's perfectly "working as intended" and not mindbendingly annoying to listen to the constant FUEL LOW warnings. Better yet, try not to get de-sensitised to the warnings and ignore them until you suddenly get FUEL CRITICAL and you fall to your death, which the FUEL LOW warning is SUPPOSED TO PREVENT!
Absolute tone-deaf insanity response Keen. Do better.
Ah, so it was a bug after all. 😉
Thanks for the fix.
Ah, so it was a bug after all. 😉
Thanks for the fix.
Hello Engineers,
Following your feedback, we have fixed the "Fuel low!" Jetpack voice message triggering before the bottles had a chance to refuel. This was addressed by allowing the bottles to start refueling sooner in our recent hotfix update (1.210.014).
If you still experience the issue after updating to the latest version, please create a new bug report on our Support Forum so we can investigate it further.
Happy Engineering!
Kind Regards,
Keen Software House: QA Department
Hello Engineers,
Following your feedback, we have fixed the "Fuel low!" Jetpack voice message triggering before the bottles had a chance to refuel. This was addressed by allowing the bottles to start refueling sooner in our recent hotfix update (1.210.014).
If you still experience the issue after updating to the latest version, please create a new bug report on our Support Forum so we can investigate it further.
Happy Engineering!
Kind Regards,
Keen Software House: QA Department
I appreciate the fix on this many thanks
I appreciate the fix on this many thanks
Thanks for fixing this BUG.
Clearly it was an oversight from your QA department to miss this BUG prior to deployment of Prosperity.
Thanks for fixing this BUG.
Clearly it was an oversight from your QA department to miss this BUG prior to deployment of Prosperity.
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