Neutral grids attack without provocation, no different from Hostile grids

Patrick Heney shared this feedback 21 days ago
Under Consideration

Today, I also experienced a Neutral grid opening fire on me. It was quite a surprise. I did not attack it; I merely flew near it.

I don't have a problem with dynamic NPCs that do things like that. But, there is a problem in that my weapons, which are normally set not to shoot Neutrals, would not fire back because my assailant was Neutral to me. Toggling the weapons to shoot Neutrals on made the weapons work, of course, but this is a weird scenario to be in.

What's the point of a HUD signal indicating a grid is Neutral, if I cannot believe that it's neutral? What is the difference between Neutral and Hostile if both will attack me?

Don't get me wrong, I really do like that the NPCs have personalities and can do things like this. However, the relationship system is really showing its limitations here.

Neutral facilities used to be a place where you could determine your own destiny. Interact nicely, maybe buy / sell things, whatever. Build your relationship. Or, pirate them, lose rep with the faction, and have them go hostile after a few times.

But now, there's no difference at all between Hostile and Neutral is there? As I can reasonably expect any Neutral grid to attack me.

Possible solutions,

  • Introduce a grid-specific relation system. When a grid attacks me, my relationship to that grid becomes Hostile. Weapons set to shoot Hostiles will engage correctly.
  • When a neutral grid decides to attack, temporarily change its faction relationship to Hostile. This status remains until 1 hour after the last shot the grid fires at the player. Have the faction relationship revert back to Neutral (and the original relationship points it had before the grid attacked the player).
  • When a neutral grid decides to attack, move that grid to a hostile faction (move it to SPRT or something)
  • Introduce a new AI setting for weapons and CTC like "shoot attacking grid" or "enable self-defense," which would allow the weapons to shoot any grid that has shot at the player recently (say within the past hour).

There may be other solutions. There may be better solutions. But those are some suggestions that might address this weirdness.

Replies (7)

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https://youtu.be/18Se-ME8D5M?t=13550 example of what I'm talking about

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This has been a really annoying "feature" so far. I've also made a bug report about it, cause let's be honest, getting shot at by neutrals (when they fired first) feels like it should've been a bug. I don't know about you, but being shot at feels pretty hostile.


https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/pc/topic/49501-neutral-npcs-are-attacking-my-grids-i-dont-know-about-you-but-being-shot-at-feels-pretty-hostile

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looks like they moved yours from bug to feedback :/

this being "intended behaviour" is honestly a bad decision and unneccessarily confusing.

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I couldn't agree more about it being unnecessarily confusing, or why anyone would've thought that neutral signals should be hostile (as in their the ones shooting first).


Like don't get me wrong having neutral npc base defend themselves is a good idea, but having it also spawn drones that are also considered neutral signals wasn't. (Or in my case a random npc cargo ship deciding I'm in it's way and shooting me). Having to use target neutrals in a defensive manner is a great way to piss off every other faction on the server (player and npc) or just shoot your own base and salvage. Heck, most pve servers (at least the ones I've played on) disallow target neutrals as a general rule because of this.

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Hi A_N1ne,

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write such a clear and detailed post. We really appreciate the effort you put into outlining your experience and the reasoning behind your feedback.

What you’re describing is indeed intended behavior, not a bug. Because of that, we’ll be moving your report into the Feedback section so the team can track it there alongside other feature and balance suggestions.

Thanks again for helping us improve Space Engineers with thoughtful input!


Kind Regards,

Ludmila Danilchenko

Head of Space Engineers QA Department

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Thanks for taking the time to read it, and moving it to the correct place within the forms.

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Yeah, it may be "by design," but this design is problematic. Grids that are shooting you need to be recognizable as "Hostile" by the HUD signal and, more importantly, by weapons. It's just causing problems. It's cool the NPCs are dynamic and stuff. But once they become hostile to the player, they need to be hostile so weapons will target them.


This ticket here provides a few suggestions on how to handle the scenario. Worded differently, but same issue.

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/pc/topic/49555-neutral-grids-attack-without-provocation-no-different-from-hostile-grids

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The fact that neutral NPCs will now shoot first was a bad design decision. Since the ownership system was added, the only NPCs that shot you first were marked as hostile. Us haveing to use attack neutrals as a defensive tool is a dumb idea. Attacking neutral is for people who want to attack first, not defend themselves (unless you're playing on a PvP server, but that's not what this is about). Setting turrets to attack neutrals is a great way to accidentally piss off all other factions around you (NPC or player), to the point where most, if not every, PVE server I've ever played on have rules about not being allowed to have attacking neutrals on, for this very reason. It's also just a good way to shoot your own base and legitimate salvage, cause a grid made of only armour blocks is counted as a neutral grid, no matter who built it.

Anyways, I've got a few suggestions about this in my own post on this topic. (I don't know about you, but being shot at feels pretty hostile). https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/pc/topic/49501-neutral-npcs-are-attacking-my-grids-i-dont-know-about-you-but-being-shot-at-feels-pretty-hostile

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its already the third feedback I see like that, maybe vote all for one instead of create duplicate

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Or vote for them all to send a stronger message. Or link the third duplicate so others can vote on it. Duplicates can't always be avoided, so maybe find ways to contribute to a solution instead of criticizing those who are trying to raise the issue.

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Me linking mine wasn't a call for people to vote for mine over this one. It was more of, I'm lazy and didn't want to add any of the suggestions I have in my post here. But I would prefer for people to vote for all 3 (or however many there will be), it would indeed send the message that this wasn't a good change

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This caused me to accidentally shoot my own ship. I got some gyros mounted on warheads (missiles) from a friend who was neutral, but my ship guns were set to target neutral grids with weapons due to an earlier NPC encounter.


This is counterintuitive behaviour and prone to causing player error.

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