Welded up a copy of the bullfrog SM-31 and attached it to top of the Sledge. Every time I thrust forward or backward, the ship pivots up or down respectively so I cannot keep a bearing. Side or up/down thrust seems ok. If I sustain thrust the ship spins up or down and my view moves to a strange place in the cockpit. if I 'tap' the forward thrust and steer down, I can almost maintain bearing.
Flight Characteristics With Connected Mass
Reported
The Flight Characteristics when using a connector or landing gear to carry another grid seem to be very wrong once the mass of either becomes slightly larger then the 1 container used in the Contract. These two ships are the same except one has the drills connected via a connector and the other is just attached normally.
There does not seem to be a logical reason that one works and the other doesn't seeing as the game does not allow for the Thrust axis though any point except centre of mass. leaving no way to make detachable tool heads without the ship becoming unflyable.
Dampeners also don't seem to take into account connected mass via landing gear or connectors either so in gravity the ship slowly drifts downwards.
I have the same bug 
I turned off the gyros and thrusters on the attached miner, no difference. I reversed the direction of the miner, same effect. I grabbing the miner with the sledge instead of the other way around, same effect. Maybe this is expected from the new physics, but it seems strange.
I turned off the gyros and thrusters on the attached miner, no difference. I reversed the direction of the miner, same effect. I grabbing the miner with the sledge instead of the other way around, same effect. Maybe this is expected from the new physics, but it seems strange.
Towed the miner direcly behind the sledge and the steering was a little sluggish but it worked closer to how I'd expect it to behave. So maybe this is just the new physics.
Towed the miner direcly behind the sledge and the steering was a little sluggish but it worked closer to how I'd expect it to behave. So maybe this is just the new physics.
Nope. When get to 500 km/h forward, then turn on intertial dampeners, the ship spins like crazy. That should not happen since now the mass is linear it should have slowed linerarly.
Nope. When get to 500 km/h forward, then turn on intertial dampeners, the ship spins like crazy. That should not happen since now the mass is linear it should have slowed linerarly.
Few clips of Subgrids inducing torque onto the main grid which seems either wrong or a very large change from SE1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxA0wEPWHHg
Few clips of Subgrids inducing torque onto the main grid which seems either wrong or a very large change from SE1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxA0wEPWHHg
This is the same issue i'm having and attaching to ships is how i first noticed it.
It applies to Any mass connected via landing gear or connectors.
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/51013-flight-characteristics-with-connected-mass
This is the same issue i'm having and attaching to ships is how i first noticed it.
It applies to Any mass connected via landing gear or connectors.
https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers2/pc/topic/51013-flight-characteristics-with-connected-mass
I have not tested with connector, but I experienced odd behaviour the same as this. Connecting one ship to another ship with landing gear caused this for me.
Shutting off all of the propulsion on the ship using the landing gears seems to reduce the effects slightly, but turning off gyros and propulsion on the ship being carried does not fix anything. Adding more gyros on the main ship seems to help, but I had to get to 9x 0.5m gyros to have the movement be slight which seems odd considering each ship only needs 2-3 on their own for stable flight. It only seems to affect trying to accelerate at that point. Strafing and accelerating backwards not noticeably affected with lots of gyros. Odd movement kicks in whenever forward thrusting kicks in, whether initiated by player or by dampening. By dampening I mean if I reverse thrust movement is normal, but as soon as I let off thrust and dampening kicks in the ship starts moving. That's all the testing I've done so far on it.
I have not tested with connector, but I experienced odd behaviour the same as this. Connecting one ship to another ship with landing gear caused this for me.
Shutting off all of the propulsion on the ship using the landing gears seems to reduce the effects slightly, but turning off gyros and propulsion on the ship being carried does not fix anything. Adding more gyros on the main ship seems to help, but I had to get to 9x 0.5m gyros to have the movement be slight which seems odd considering each ship only needs 2-3 on their own for stable flight. It only seems to affect trying to accelerate at that point. Strafing and accelerating backwards not noticeably affected with lots of gyros. Odd movement kicks in whenever forward thrusting kicks in, whether initiated by player or by dampening. By dampening I mean if I reverse thrust movement is normal, but as soon as I let off thrust and dampening kicks in the ship starts moving. That's all the testing I've done so far on it.
If you have a grid attached via connector the ship is pulling up / down on acceleration and breaking. Doesn't matter, if the gyro and dampeners of the connected craft are on or off. You can only move with short impulses and dampeners off, otherwise you loose control. In addition H2 seems to be used up quickly.
If a ship is connected via gear, this seems to apply only at breaking.
If you have a grid attached via connector the ship is pulling up / down on acceleration and breaking. Doesn't matter, if the gyro and dampeners of the connected craft are on or off. You can only move with short impulses and dampeners off, otherwise you loose control. In addition H2 seems to be used up quickly.
If a ship is connected via gear, this seems to apply only at breaking.
There also seems to be a slowing down of rotation even when a grid has no gyro built.
One of the tests I did was to power off the ship in the clip and it eventually stopped spinning.
None of the grids in the video have gyros yet they are still able to apply rotation.
I'm hopeful this is actually a bug and not a planned changed to the way flight works.
There also seems to be a slowing down of rotation even when a grid has no gyro built.
One of the tests I did was to power off the ship in the clip and it eventually stopped spinning.
None of the grids in the video have gyros yet they are still able to apply rotation.
I'm hopeful this is actually a bug and not a planned changed to the way flight works.
I have this problem even with one container in the Contract. With any subgrid attached, in gravity ship slowly drifts downwards.
The greater difference in mass between the grids, the faster they falls.
Same issue with dampers in SE1, but it appears randomly.
I have this problem even with one container in the Contract. With any subgrid attached, in gravity ship slowly drifts downwards.
The greater difference in mass between the grids, the faster they falls.
Same issue with dampers in SE1, but it appears randomly.
I think this is no bug, but a physically correct behavior. This is how mass with non centric thrust behaves in space. (it's about innertia). I remember, when SE1 had the same issue. It is correct, but not fun to play. We are not actual rocket scientists.
SE1 was fixed by combining the centers of mass of both connected grids. I hope the devs will fix this in the next update.
I think this is no bug, but a physically correct behavior. This is how mass with non centric thrust behaves in space. (it's about innertia). I remember, when SE1 had the same issue. It is correct, but not fun to play. We are not actual rocket scientists.
SE1 was fixed by combining the centers of mass of both connected grids. I hope the devs will fix this in the next update.
Hello Engineers,
This is a known issue that is already reported internally. I have added this thread to our internal ticket (SE2-29691).
Kind Regards,
Bartosz
Keen Software House
Hello Engineers,
This is a known issue that is already reported internally. I have added this thread to our internal ticket (SE2-29691).
Kind Regards,
Bartosz
Keen Software House
This happened to me aswell with 2 smaller ships but the "carrier" was at least double the size. But the carrier was Hydrogen Thrusters and the Miner was Ions.
It was worse if the carried ship had it's dampeners on.
A tiny difference if the carried ship was totally powered down, but just so you could tap up the speed and tap slow down.
This happened to me aswell with 2 smaller ships but the "carrier" was at least double the size. But the carrier was Hydrogen Thrusters and the Miner was Ions.
It was worse if the carried ship had it's dampeners on.
A tiny difference if the carried ship was totally powered down, but just so you could tap up the speed and tap slow down.
I find that acceleration kind of works, but as soon as you let go of W to start slowing down, you get a massive attitude shift - as in near immediate 90+ degrees in some direction.. doesn't matter if the piggy-backed ship is powered or unpowered either. This felt a little better pre VS2.2. Kind of guessing this is maybe connected to some physics changes to the docking behaviour, that also became more violently 'jerky' in VS2.2, and has no problems shoving rather large ships around like they had no mass.. The dampened flight mechanics in general are, well, in need of work, but I agree with the OP, this is problematic. It's still kind of flyable, but it's a massive pain.
I find that acceleration kind of works, but as soon as you let go of W to start slowing down, you get a massive attitude shift - as in near immediate 90+ degrees in some direction.. doesn't matter if the piggy-backed ship is powered or unpowered either. This felt a little better pre VS2.2. Kind of guessing this is maybe connected to some physics changes to the docking behaviour, that also became more violently 'jerky' in VS2.2, and has no problems shoving rather large ships around like they had no mass.. The dampened flight mechanics in general are, well, in need of work, but I agree with the OP, this is problematic. It's still kind of flyable, but it's a massive pain.
Hello Engineers,
I wanted to give you all a quick heads up. Since release of VS2.2. Rotors and Pistons are also affected by this issue causing instabilities in flight characteristics. We are still working on solution for this issue and I don't have any ETA at the moment unfortunately.
Kind Regards,
Bartosz
Keen Software House
Hello Engineers,
I wanted to give you all a quick heads up. Since release of VS2.2. Rotors and Pistons are also affected by this issue causing instabilities in flight characteristics. We are still working on solution for this issue and I don't have any ETA at the moment unfortunately.
Kind Regards,
Bartosz
Keen Software House
hhmm... a KSP command of 'control from here' would be helpful, it took all subgrids and grids connected and temporarily aligned their controls to the selected control block, based around a unified CG. Could align phantom forces/CG differences/dampers behavior, not sure for the SE2 landing gear logic, maybe could work for a temporary CG alignment.
hhmm... a KSP command of 'control from here' would be helpful, it took all subgrids and grids connected and temporarily aligned their controls to the selected control block, based around a unified CG. Could align phantom forces/CG differences/dampers behavior, not sure for the SE2 landing gear logic, maybe could work for a temporary CG alignment.
I’ve also had this weird affected flying behaviour affect me today. I have a grinder on the end of a piston on my ship. It’s virtually unflyable. Acts like it’s tipping forwards. Also my ship gets damaged under acceleration and deceleration. Loud crunching noises 😩
Anyway, just wanted to add my name to the list. Thanks for the update Bart. Hopefully it can be fixed soon 👍
I’ve also had this weird affected flying behaviour affect me today. I have a grinder on the end of a piston on my ship. It’s virtually unflyable. Acts like it’s tipping forwards. Also my ship gets damaged under acceleration and deceleration. Loud crunching noises 😩
Anyway, just wanted to add my name to the list. Thanks for the update Bart. Hopefully it can be fixed soon 👍
Have the same. While having a heavier 'tug' ship, with a lot of gyros and turning the towed ship off helps, it's still pretty bad. We are still unable to pickup an empty Grasshopper with an empty Sledge and move it between platforms without almost flipping the Sledge.
Have the same. While having a heavier 'tug' ship, with a lot of gyros and turning the towed ship off helps, it's still pretty bad. We are still unable to pickup an empty Grasshopper with an empty Sledge and move it between platforms without almost flipping the Sledge.
two ships the same size or a carrier and a miner(or whatever kind of small ship) docked should fly straight in space or atmosphere.
the ship wants to rotate the direction of the connector as if the connector is a giant mass pulling it down.
two ships the same size or a carrier and a miner(or whatever kind of small ship) docked should fly straight in space or atmosphere.
the ship wants to rotate the direction of the connector as if the connector is a giant mass pulling it down.
I encountered the same problem, and in addition the ship is very difficult to fly and is very unbalanced. The thrust seems to be applied to the center of mass of the ship only (without subgrids).
I encountered the same problem, and in addition the ship is very difficult to fly and is very unbalanced. The thrust seems to be applied to the center of mass of the ship only (without subgrids).
This is the same in space. It shouldn't matter how a subgrid is attached, as long as the thrust is applied evenly to a grid regardless of actual thruster placement. If you magnetically, landing gear or connector connect a subgrid to a ship, it's mass should accelerate and turn as though it's a part of the main grid. If they implement unbalanced thrust where you need to place thrust in the center of mass to accelerate in a straight line, then subgrids certainly should be calculated in that.
This is the same in space. It shouldn't matter how a subgrid is attached, as long as the thrust is applied evenly to a grid regardless of actual thruster placement. If you magnetically, landing gear or connector connect a subgrid to a ship, it's mass should accelerate and turn as though it's a part of the main grid. If they implement unbalanced thrust where you need to place thrust in the center of mass to accelerate in a straight line, then subgrids certainly should be calculated in that.
The ship I was testing was my vertical miner (see attached image). Since the rotating part with the drills is at a great distance from the ship center, the ship is barely flyable.
The ship I was testing was my vertical miner (see attached image). Since the rotating part with the drills is at a great distance from the ship center, the ship is barely flyable.
For example.
Both docked ships have inercial dampers off, the fly is stable, until i release the w key and stop to accelerate.
For example.
Both docked ships have inercial dampers off, the fly is stable, until i release the w key and stop to accelerate.
i think it's a need to balance the position of thruster with the center of global mass, and their power, but not a real issue.
I had the same "bug", but it's fixed when i build bigger gyro.
i think it's a need to balance the position of thruster with the center of global mass, and their power, but not a real issue.
I had the same "bug", but it's fixed when i build bigger gyro.
I'll try adding more or larger gyroscopes, but simply stopping the acceleration without touching anything shouldn't produce such a strong turning force.
I'll try adding more or larger gyroscopes, but simply stopping the acceleration without touching anything shouldn't produce such a strong turning force.
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