turret shooting neutral grids OFF by default

Rivvion shared this feedback 4 months ago
Under Consideration

can we please have the option for turrets shooting neutral grids turned off by default?

if i have multiple grids in a creative world, place a turret while damage is turned off it immediately starts shooting everything destroying my progress when i havent saved.

it is such a nuisance to keep forgetting this is a thing and having my work be destroyed, only to realize i saved an hour ago. basically causing a lot of unneeded chaos.

please make shoot neutrals toggled OFF by default.

Best Answer
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totally agreed and lets have a silent minute for all the lost ships. that were in building, when suddenly on of the reactors was marked neutral and your turrets started to go for it..

Comments (37)

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Yes, please!

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totally agreed and lets have a silent minute for all the lost ships. that were in building, when suddenly on of the reactors was marked neutral and your turrets started to go for it..

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I disagree with this as i will miss all the Lol's Cos's it so funny to watch when people forget :)

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It's not a question of simply forgetting- you can't even build the damn turret as it will start shooting instantly if there is ammo available via conveyors, or place it in creative as it will start shooting instantly. You have to build or place the turret with your ships power turned off, that's the only way to stop it from attacking neutrals instantly- not exactly the most convenient way of doing things. It's only funny the first time- losing stuff YOU want to salvage or own in your own survival game stops being funny awfully quickly...

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Also let's not forget the "turrets firing at blocks that are welded to owner 'nobody'" bug... which I just saw happen a few days ago for the first time in forever. Was in a DS, and think it was an outlier, but... just in case.

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You can turn it of before building the turret or turn the conveyor off before welding it up and all so remembering to turn off your Nanties or build and reapair mods if you use them.


So yes you can build the Turrets with out it shooting 100% of the time.

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You seem to have largely ignored what I said about creative mode building, and have also ignored the issue of multiple people building grids- it's impossible to co-ordinate multiple people or people + build & repair to make sure turrets won't attack neutral or friendly grids. You also ignored the issues of ownership and blocks becoming neutral or hostile due to ownership issues that have plagued SE since day 1.


I know you mean well, but your suggestions don't solve the issue; it NEEDS to be turned off by default, and the ownership system needs drastically simplifying to avoid owned and friendly blocks being identified as hostile or unowned.

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Well untill they do or not do this use a script to Auto turn off weapon or you can even set the sub controlls.

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*groan*


Yeah, we know you can use scripts or mods to alter turret behaviour- you're missing the entire point of this topic, still.

So, one last time, just for you:


TARGET NEUTRALS SHOULD BE TURNED OFF BY DEFAULT.


Understand now? Only enemies ( grids/stations/players ) should be targetted by default, and turret range should be set to maximum too- that's another issue ( range on turrets and ore detectors not being maxxed out by default ).


Keen consistently make very weird decisions that make no sense, or decisions that are hugely unpopular and ignore the thousands of players telling them as much. They don't need people making excuses for them or offering advice that we already know, they need to get their act together and start listening to the players ( the ones who have a clue what they're talking about at that ) who've been pointing out long standing issues for years and actually start fixing them.


/discussion

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And i disagree with the Idea ,,, and we are talking about a Topic.


My reasoning is this i do not want everything done for me to make it easy.


Keen have given us a few ways around these "probems" Like scripts etc or power the grid down before placing a turret block in creative,, and so on..

Disagreeing dose not mean i do not get the Idea.

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You're not listening, are you, still- you keep ignoring points, and don't think about the broader picture. What about servers where you can't use mods or scripts? What about multiple people building grids? What about ownership issues?


Simply saying 'turn off the grid' isn't an answer or solution in any of those situations, especially ones with ownership problems caused by an overly complicated ownership system. Just this evening I watched someone paste in friendly grids from blueprints, and the turrets on an existing friendly ship went mental and tore it to pieces- because SE decides some pasted grids are friendly, and some are hostile or neutral. Explain how someone in the same faction as you can paste in grids that become hostile or neutral? 'Turn off the turrets first' is not an answer.


Just give up now please, nothing you have said is a solution or helpful, and it isn't simply a case of 'making the game easier for you'- its called FIXING the game by fixing ownership and having sensible turret settings. Just as well you are in the vast, vast minority of people and most players understand the issue and want it properly addressed.

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Well i leave you with this cos we just have to agree to disagree but the other reasons i want them left on targeting neutrals is all a player has to do is turn his grids to neutrals and drop it on a players base. and new players will not know about this. just to confirm i logged to a random server so i did not have admin etc and tested this.


This why its been that way or the reasoning behind i been told and seen on Keens live steams in the past.


So untill Keen stop players from doing this Turrets are best left as there are targeting neutrals and it up to the long term players to remember to set up there builds Correctly.


Have a nice day.

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"it up to the long term players to remember to set up there builds Correctly."


I'm glad not a single word I've said has sunken in. GG


Anyway, as for making grids neutral to use them as a weapon against newbies- what exactly do you think they will learn from that experience? They will set turrets to target neutrals, but in the mean-time the grids they build without setting ownership, and grids they try to capture will get shot to pieces by their own turrets because target neutrals was turned on by default. Now, imagine target neutrals was turned off by default, their grids and captured ships are safe, and any neutral grid that does fire at them, they will rapidly learn to turn on target neutrals ( all this game needs is a proper single player tutorial, not a bunch of random, out dated and broken ones by keen that they don't keep up to date with patches ).


Easier to learn the easy way than the hard way- something you don't appreciate or understand, but yes, lets agree to disagree, even if you're the sole person that does.

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OMG Deja Vu... @ Suicide Neil I had this entire argument with some a$$hat on the old forum that went with almost the exact same feel.

https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/guns-attacking-new-stations.7388843/

Wonder if it's the same guy... nah.

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I have read you points but i still disagree my points are sound Logic and in the mean time untill keen stop players from turning over they grids to neutrals and pray on people who are new and may not know about this my View will stay the same. Also i Build/edit lots of NPC's for mods in Creative/Survile mode So i get its annoying when u forget to turn it off.


1 use a script to turn them off or turn target neutrals off

2 Make a blueprint of turrets in off or turn target neutrals "pain for mirror mode" i know

3 build of out range with People not in your factions or placing blueprints from workshop or older blueprints when that ownship bug was around.


4. update older blueprint as this will also fix the issue and other bugs that were around. as what you are talking about is a ownship issue bug.


5 this is a engineering game so in the spirt of Engineering i find ways around problems like this.

And to end this with a quote


With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? ... Zapp Brannigan.

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You keep saying 'turn off the turrets', but that isn't the whole problem- the problem is the ownership system is broken, and that is only something Keen can fix. I'm done repeating myself, and indeed, you are about the only person who doesn't understand the larger issue which would indicate that discussing it further is a waste of our time. The solution lies with Keen- your opinions and ideas are entirely meaningless as a result.


To end on a quote:


“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”

Leo Tolstoy

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Then Post an idea for a better factions system and better ownships and i vote and support it.

IMO we are agreeing but from diffrant points of view,,, your logic seem to be i must agree with the Turrets neutral turned off by default idea they for i am not agreeing with the ownship bug ,,,,, ????????

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Okay then- the system just needs to default to blocks being owned when they are or were owned to begin with ( re: damaged blocks being repaired and becoming neutral for example ) before they were damaged or repaired. Likewise, pasted-in grids need to default as being owned by a friendly faction member, rather than being neutral or hostile ( unless they were specifically set as hostile as part of a pirate faction for example ).


( There is also the issue of different owners within a faction causing problems with other owners not being able to use or access certain features or blocks- again, relating to an over-complicated ownership system, but that's another issue... )

There, is that good enough? We aren't agreeing at all though- you keep insisting that it is mainly user error, we keep insisting that neutral targets shouldn't be targeted by default, BECAUSE THEY ARE NEUTRAL. You know what neutral means, right? Neutral means not hostile or friendly, which is effectively friendly to all other factions- therefore, neutral factions should not be attacked ( just as you would expect in any kind of war- neutral countries don't attack or help allies and axis forces, they just abstain for fighting ).

This is not rocket science, neutral targets are not hostile, so by default 'target neutrals' should BE TURNED OFF.

If you want me to keep repeating myself, I will, but at this point I'm going to need colouring crayons and glove puppets to make it any easier for you to understand the issue.

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What i would like is a better faction system and ownships of blocks to reflect that


Etc ,,,

Peace treaty means Limited Access to Blocks and be friendly to turrets

Neutral means no active Argeement or Seeking attacks but come in range of a base your get shoot. but if a Neutral starts a fight it will auto go to hostile.


hostile or war etc, means both we will hunt you and shoot if you come in range.

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boys i'm getting spammed to no avail in my inbox about your feud, please consider talking this out and getting things sorted anywhere else, maybe Discord personal messages could work for you.

just, don't add any more here, it's just a circle-jerk at this point.

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Rather than trying to change the actions of others or influence them to do as you wish them to do... wouldn't it just be easier to stop following the thread? Just a thought. Crazy.. I know, but so crazy it just might work. It's all moot anyway... we know that KSH isn't going to do anything about it. Maybe they'll release this QOL content in a DLC, or in their next game.

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I join this topic and I have one more similar proposal.It would be good to set the turret's automatic movement to off by default. It annoys me very much when I do not manage to turn it off before the turret makes its first move.

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I do wonder why they are set to target random encounters and drop boxes in the first place...

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Because drop boxes are an unholy abomination and must be destroyed by fire. Or, because they are neutral. Pick a side! We're at war!

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[ PURGING INTENSIFIES ]

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100% need to fix this. Literally every single player has been burned by the over-aggressive turrets at least once.

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Hi guys, thank you for the feedback, we will check that

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Please do the number of times I've had my neighbours visit with there brand new truck only for my base turrets to swivel and destroy him in 5 seconds (cause I might have built a new one) much quicker than I can turn them off to say my neighbours hate me would be an understatement

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We are just investigating this issue, do you have some example (save file) where we can test our fix?

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happened today, was working on a thing in creative and a refinery was neutral, blew up everything.

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I'd contact W4sted Space again, get a copy of some of his worlds when he experienced the issues in his various survival series. Might wanna credit those who submit worlds for your testing though, always good to acknowledge people who help improve the game directly or indirectly.


Anyway, it seems like the main part of the issue as stated previously is blocks that are ground down partially and rebuilt show up as neutral- this is especially true when you have multiple team members/factions and someone other than the builder does the grinding & rebuilding.

In creative, I get this type of issue when pasting in a blueprint; the blueprint was made with all blocks owned by me, but when it pastes in the ownership magically becomes set to 'nobody' ( = neutral, as far as turrets are concerned ). if the blueprint doesn't get shot to pieces by other ships already in the world, then it decides to attack them instead since it has no owner and treats them as neutral or enemies essentially, despite everything being built by me...

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I believe you have nothing to test. Simply turn off the standard neutral switch of these towers.Signs of drops are also being destroyed for this.

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Hey man ! Look at my new ship ! RATATATATATATATTATATA

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Otherwise known as "Commit War Crimes" as default behaviour.

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You know, there is this conspiracy - Keen has it as default so in MP the neutral factions will be forced into action (read: all-out war) from time to time (because somebody will sometimes forget to disable "target neutrals"), so they don't have to add new content ;-)

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New server setting: "War Crime Committing Turrets [On]".

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