Reactors produce energy based on fuel weight instead of amount

Kowal314 shared this feedback 7 months ago
Submitted

everything in game is based on amount, refineries/assembler produce ingots/components based on amount of them, only reactors produce energy based on weight (in kg) it make modding harder, if energy would be based on amount on fuel it would give modders more possibilities

Comments (12)

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I'm pretty sure reactors produce the same energy with 0.01kg of fuel as they do with 100,000kg of fuel.

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you are wrong


We added alternative fuel (coal) to our rebel server, our idea was that it will be much much less efficient and much much heavier fuel then uranium, so we made coal 1000kg per unit, the result was that it became an endless fuel, because reactors were making 1000mwh from 1 unit (uranium ingot = 1mwh) thats why we had to change coal mass to 1g (0,001 kg) and now reactors make 1kwh from one unit, but side effect is that coal is very light which is the complete opposite of what we wanted to achive

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I misinterpreted the suggestion. I thought you meant output of a reactor containing varying amounts of fuel; not power produced per kg of fuel. I am right in that the output of a reactor is the same as long as it has fuel.

I'll have to agree with Zachary.

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I'm not sure what you're smoking. Using the volume of materials completely makes sense, except for power generation. Mass is used there, because the power density of a material is measured in per mass units.


I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here? What possibilities would be done that can't already?

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If you dont understand something it dosent mean that i smoke something


volume is in (L) and its not used anywere to production ratios, only amount count in pieces.

its not important how it is in real life because its game, but yes i agree with you about mass and power density. But the problem is that there is no option to change this power density (1kg of fuel is always 1 mwh). All i want to achieve is possibility to change this value (i just propose easiest option of few)


For what we need that? i gave you answer in my first comment

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"If you dont understand something it dosent mean that i smoke something"

But it does make a pretty good argument.

"volume is in (L) and its not used anywere to production ratios, only amount count in pieces."

You mean like in storage? Liters are used to measure the amount of space you have to store things.

"its not important how it is in real life because its game, but yes i agree with you about mass and power density."

Actually, it is important how it is in real life, even though it's a game. Why would you suddenly stop using mass for this? It makes no sense. Aside from that, this game is partially based on realism, which includes using semi-realistic methods of using uranium.

"But the problem is that there is no option to change this power density (1kg of fuel is always 1 mwh)."

So why is changing the reactor to using the system in a way that makes no sense the best way to accomplish that? If you had just requested the ability the change the power density of materials, that would have gone over much better, and made sense in a way that doesn't attempt to break physics.


For your wanted application, it sounds like you've got what you want. In order to make any decent amount of power, you have to use a lot of volume to carry the coal. Which makes sense, because it's not as energy-dense as uranium. It sounds like you're not understanding what any of that means, more than anything.

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"If you dont understand something it dosent mean that i smoke something"

But it does make a pretty good argument.

- yes its very good argument, i have never heard better one


"volume is in (L) and its not used anywere to production ratios, only amount count in pieces."

You mean like in storage? Liters are used to measure the amount of space you have to store things.

- i mean that liters are used ONLY for storage, they are not used by refineries/arcs/assemblers to determinate their input/output of ingots/components


"its not important how it is in real life because its game, but yes i agree with you about mass and power density."

Actually, it is important how it is in real life, even though it's a game. Why would you suddenly stop using mass for this? It makes no sense. Aside from that, this game is partially based on realism, which includes using semi-realistic methods of using uranium

- we already have exactly same mechanic in SE

refineries produce ingots based not on the mass of the ore only on its amount in UNITS, it is invisible to the ordinary player because 1 unit of ore = 1 kg and also 1 unit of ingot = 1kg, just change the mass of 1 unit of ore from 1 kg to 0,1 kg and suddenly from 0,1 kg of iron ore you will get 0,64 kg of iron ingot (1 x 0.7 x 0.8 = 0,56) (iron ore has 70% yield and also refineries without upgrades has 80% yield)


you can also change the weight of 1 unit of iron ingot from 1 kg to 10 kg and then we will get 10 x more kg of iron ingots, that is, instead of 0,56 kg to 5,6 kg


so from 0,1 kg of iron ore you can get 5,6 kg of iron ingots (in units it will be 1 unit of iron ore to 0,56 unit of iron ingot)

if we add 4 yield upgrades to refineries, we will get 10 kg of iron ingots from 0,1 kg of iron ore (total yield for iron ore will reach 100%) (in units it will be 1 to 1, but because ore is 10 x lighter per unit and ingot is 10 x heavier per unit we get 100 x more mass)


Does it make sense? Of course it is not

is it working? yes it works because in vanilla version 1 unit of any ore = 1 kg and 1 unit of any ingot = 1 kg


the same smelting system could be implemented in reactors, in the vanilla version nothing would change it and it would give bigger possibilities of modulation

assemblers work with same system which is based on units instead of mass, only reactors has system based on mass instead of units


"But the problem is that there is no option to change this power density (1kg of fuel is always 1 mwh)."

So why is changing the reactor to using the system in a way that makes no sense the best way to accomplish that? If you had just requested the ability the change the power density of materials, that would have gone over much better, and made sense in a way that doesn't attempt to break physics.


- i have proven above that physics is already broken, but no one see it and it works because in vanilla version all ,,numbers" are ,,correct". reactors could work with same rules as refineries and all would be fine, vanilla version would work same as now (untill any one dont change mass of ores/ingots), i proposed imo the easiest way to do it, but i agree with you that adding new parameter called ,,fuel energy density" or so, would work too (so we can set amount of energy from 1 kg of fuel)


For your wanted application, it sounds like you've got what you want. In order to make any decent amount of power, you have to use a lot of volume to carry the coal. Which makes sense, because it's not as energy-dense as uranium.

- no, we didnt got what we want, we have fuel with HUGE volume and little mass, it was not our purpose, but we could not do it in other way, it has SAME energy density per mass as uranium (1 kg=1 mwh), we reduced mass 1000 x times so reactors use large amount of units, but they still generate 1 mwh from 1 kg of our fuel, so basically our fuel is same heavy as uranium, i mean we cant make fuel heavy, for example that 100 kg or 1000 kg of that fuel is 1mwh, it will be always 1 kg = 1mwh, we can make it only larger in volume and for ships it not same (weight of cargo is much more harder to deal with it then volume of cargo because weight influence ship acceleration and is has huge impact in gravity)


It sounds like you're not understanding what any of that means, more than anything.

- i think that i understand it more then you


anyway i dont think keens gonna do something to that, its over 1 month since i posted my suggestions (3 in total) and status of them stay same, looks like no one even take a look on them

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"i mean that liters are used ONLY for storage, they are not used by refineries/arcs/assemblers to determinate their input/output of ingots/components"

And why would they need liters? Mass for that is used irl too.


"- we already have exactly same mechanic in SE"

And you're trying to suggest a change to it.


"refineries produce ingots based not on the mass of the ore only on its amount in UNITS, it is invisible to the ordinary player because 1 unit of ore = 1 kg and also 1 unit of ingot = 1kg, just change the mass of 1 unit of ore from 1 kg to 0,1 kg and suddenly from 0,1 kg of iron ore you will get 0,64 kg of iron ingot (1 x 0.7 x 0.8 = 0,56) (iron ore has 70% yield and also refineries without upgrades has 80% yield)"

And those units are... Liters! Give the man a prize.


"you can also change the weight of 1 unit of iron ingot from 1 kg to 10 kg and then we will get 10 x more kg of iron ingots, that is, instead of 0,56 kg to 5,6 kg"

You've tried this, have you? With my experimentation on it, it will give you less liters, like it should.


"so from 0,1 kg of iron ore you can get 5,6 kg of iron ingots (in units it will be 1 unit of iron ore to 0,56 unit of iron ingot)if we add 4 yield upgrades to refineries, we will get 10 kg of iron ingots from 0,1 kg of iron ore (total yield for iron ore will reach 100%) (in units it will be 1 to 1, but because ore is 10 x lighter per unit and ingot is 10 x heavier per unit we get 100 x more mass)


Does it make sense? Of course it is not

is it working? yes it works because in vanilla version 1 unit of any ore = 1 kg and 1 unit of any ingot = 1 kg

the same smelting system could be implemented in reactors, in the vanilla version nothing would change it and it would give bigger possibilities of modulation

assemblers work with same system which is based on units instead of mass, only reactors has system based on mass instead of units"

Have you tried any of this, or are you just extrapolating based on your misunderstanding of the game?


"- i have proven above that physics is already broken, but no one see it and it works because in vanilla version all ,,numbers" are ,,correct". reactors could work with same rules as refineries and all would be fine, vanilla version would work same as now (untill any one dont change mass of ores/ingots), i proposed imo the easiest way to do it, but i agree with you that adding new parameter called ,,fuel energy density" or so, would work too (so we can set amount of energy from 1 kg of fuel)

And? I don't see how making the physics even more broken, even if you are right about all that, will solve anything.


"- no, we didnt got what we want, we have fuel with HUGE volume and little mass, it was not our purpose, but we could not do it in other way, it has SAME energy density per mass as uranium (1 kg=1 mwh), we reduced mass 1000 x times so reactors use large amount of units, but they still generate 1 mwh from 1 kg of our fuel, so basically our fuel is same heavy as uranium, i mean we cant make fuel heavy, for example that 100 kg or 1000 kg of that fuel is 1mwh, it will be always 1 kg = 1mwh, we can make it only larger in volume and for ships it not same (weight of cargo is much more harder to deal with it then volume of cargo because weight influence ship acceleration and is has huge impact in gravity)"

Then you didn't dig deep enough. Reactors have their own efficiency metric, for how good the mass of input goes into power. Try that.


"- i think that i understand it more then you"

Given your taking 3 weeks to respond, and what I've been doing in that time, I highly doubt that.


For all that you write, you seem to say very little, on top of not understanding the mechanics, and not even trying to solve your problem with the existing mechanics. All I had to do to find out that reactors have their own efficiency value, was ask.

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man, i just dont know what to say.....


first of off, i was not thinking about that for 3 weeks lol

- all is based on UNITS, not mass not liters, just simple UNITS, in rl we dont have somethng like ,,units" of ore, we have kg of ore and liters of ore, but game has units, and you can change how much liters or kg has one unit, only reactors are based on mass, which ofc make sens in real life but for game its not required, all can work same in vanilla if reactors would be based on units instead of mass (same as refineries)


"And why would they need liters? Mass for that is used irl too."

"And you're trying to suggest a change to it."

"And those units are... Liters! Give the man a prize."

"And? I don't see how making the physics even more broken, even if you are right about all that, will solve anything."

- those posts above means that you have no idea what youa re talking about, i explained how it works but looks like you didnt understand it or you didnt read it carfully


"You've tried this, have you? With my experimentation on it, it will give you less liters, like it should."

"Have you tried any of this, or are you just extrapolating based on your misunderstanding of the game?"

- YES i tried it, the problem is that you mix mass, volume and UNITS, you dont know which value game use to calculate input/output


i am really tired arguing with you, PLEASE read CAREFULLY one more time what i wrote above....

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"- all is based on UNITS, not mass not liters, just simple UNITS, in rl we dont have somethng like ,,units" of ore, we have kg of ore and liters of ore, but game has units, and you can change how much liters or kg has one unit, only reactors are based on mass, which ofc make sens in real life but for game its not required, all can work same in vanilla if reactors would be based on units instead of mass (same as refineries)"

Except it's not. I've modded the game, I've used recipes in the assembler, and what you are trying to claim is wrong.

And you can just use the existing Efficiency in reactors to get what you want. Ya know, much easier.


"- those posts above means that you have no idea what youa re talking about, i explained how it works but looks like you didnt understand it or you didnt read it carfully"

Or... you don't know what you're talking about. Instead of dismissing what I'm saying, listen. And before you claim that I'm dismissing what you're saying, I'm doing it because I have experience that directly contradicts what you are claiming.

"- YES i tried it, the problem is that you mix mass, volume and UNITS,"

Yeah? You tried modding the game, so you understand it?


"you dont know which value game use to calculate input/output"

So figure it out and use that one. Why is this so difficult?

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I understand what you're saying I think. Wouldn't it be easier to make a new reactor that uses coal instead? You could then mod the reactor's other parameters to your liking?

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Exactly. I think he might have already done that, but he doesn't know how to use the API well enough, and is refusing to ask, in order to do what he wants.

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