A way to find other players or grids in the vastness of Space

Radeth T (Radeth) shared this feedback 13 months ago
Considered (Not Planned)

Hello!

Now that multiplayer is finally working as intended I think there will be a lot of need for some way of finding and "interacting" (in a PVP way in most cases) with other players.

As the game world is very large, being together with other people in a server won't matter if you don't have a way to know where they are and the whole experience will reduce itself to a single player or small group of friends experience (which can be achieved without a dedicated server) with the addition of being able to chat with other guys you'll never meet. That's pretty reductive for the game SE is starting to become.

Right now on mp tests and since mp launch, people who want some pvp have to join other factions in some sneaky way, grab base coordinates and then plan an attack, or maybe look on discord or forums for any screenshot or pasted coordinate that could hint to where other players are building. That's kinda lame and also very "unimmersive" imho.

So I would like, if possible, some balanced (as in VEEERY expensive and limited in its use) way to be able to detect other characters or grids whereabouts.

It would also be nice for it to work better in space than on planets (lots of "interference" on the ground compared to space) as it would push people towards planets even after leaving one just to have a lower chance of being detected.

Hope Keen considers this.

Thanks and feel free to add any reasonable detail you think could help this idea!

Comments (33)

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I find this is a very common occurrence during server play! Digging through enemy faction discords, playing spies and accessing other medical rooms. Not only is it unintuitive but it is something that greatly affects gameplay. The solution proposed by the author of this thread (a device limited in use and extraordinarily expensive to locate enemy grids) would provide a means to co-ordinated attacks and more developed gameplay. I would like to see some attention on this issue and more possible solutions though!

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with the new hardware specs i would suggest looking at the holographic radar mod by shao

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What about some sort of radar that was based on the collison anticipation code, or perhaps a raycast. The player can detect grids in the immediate area based on their size (ie the smaller the grid the closer you need to get). Mabe heavy armor has a greater detectability and encourage players to build squishy stealth ships.

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I love the idea of active radar and scanning -- and I run Midspace's exploration ship scan and tyrsis's Active Radar on my PVE server.

Unfortunately, effective radar doesn't really work well for PVP servers because of the asynchronous nature of persistent universe gaming.

Imagine this very common scenario -- you've spent the better part of the last 4 weeks mining and refining ores into ingots and further into components and you've finally put together into an awesome ship that is ready to take off from the planet you've been stuck on for the better part of a month. But it is 3am and you have to sleep some time.

Then while you are asleep, someone in another timezone scans down your station (and hot new ship) -- and even if you've got lots of guns all around your station, if we are assuming that the hostile player is even mildly persistent, you are going to lose your ship and base along with 4 weeks worth of your efforts.

Even old standards like Eve Online don't have a good answer for how you allow PVP combat so that both parties are properly represented by equally balanced live players during the PVP. Any type of effective Radar mechanic is going to require someone to design a smart and fair PVP into the persistent universe game loop.

What are your thoughts on how to set up PVP to be fair for all players involved?

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As I already suggested you could balance this by making it unable to detect grids on planets, this way you would protect "beginners" who probably start there and also give a reason to come back after leaving, or at least maintain a base on a planet as "backup".

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Have an server announcement on who killed who, so players on server can se who the hostile faction is.

Or "hacking in progress" setup on base speakers so players on base know when they are attacked by players.

needs a sensor or speaker setup

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Mathias: RED SPY IS IN THE BASE.

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The problem isn't just for beginners though. And tbh, I'm more worried about a player that has been working hard on building a base for the past month -- that player has a LOT more to lose, and will be much more likely to rage quit and never come back if their base gets detected and ground up into scrap metal while they are offline.

This is a really great conversation to have though. Game design around persistent worlds with PvP and the real kind of loss penalty you have in SE is hard, and I'm happy to see so many people talking about it.

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Concerning 4 weeks for waste - this is typical problem for PVE players who entered to PVP server. It's can be resolved simply by prohibiting "raycast" method (or something like) by server's admin. Or - turning this method work only for "non-camouflaged" grid - either with special securing devices (also very expensive) or with declared ways like "keep holding some voxels between your building and sky".

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perhaps have it that only large factions fight pvp, so that they always have like 3 players on at same time. so defences would not be unmanned.

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Mhm..not sure why this doesn't appear on the list of ideas anymore, anyone got a clue? If I go to the home page (https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/), click on all ideas and then order them by popularity (https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topics/idea/status/all/category/all/sort/popular/page/1), my topic doesn't appear where it should be (having 15 votes).

Is this a bug? Did I forget to check something when posting?

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Just realized I am in the multiplayer category :O

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I think problem is in 'world' design.

Most servers use vanilla 'star system' world, some use modded but there are not many of them. Game currently is about getting resources and these are avaiable literally everywhere. So people are scattered everywhere and can access all resources everywhere. (only platinum being locked to space)


If world had particular interesting locations that attract people, PvP (and trading) would emerge naturally.

'Scarce resources' mod does great job by making planets uniqe with resources they hold. I'd go even deeper and make planets have regions/bioms which have some resources much more common, or even exclusive.

Just for example in 'Scarce resources' mod Earth contains Iron, Nickel, Cobalt, Silicon, Ice, Magnesium ONLY. If we make some of these resources limited to desert/high mountains/pole caps we will get some narrower areas to search trough for other players bases, mining outposts, landed ships.


As for radars I like Idea but as few stated there's issue with balance and 'offline raiding'.

One of ways to avoid 'night scanning' could be to make radar detect players instead of grids. Players would also have to be online to be able to get detected and they should get appropriate message about that. Radar should point in direction where enemy player is with randomized (and based on distance) deviation from true position. This would disallow to pinpoint someone's location in seconds but could give a clue where to look for enemy (closer you get more precise it becomes).

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"make radar detect players instead of grids" to prevent offline raiding is one of the best ideas I've ever heard for this subject. You just simplified an extremely redundant issue. Please, whoever is moderating this forum, take note to what this person just wrote.

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I always make a mobile base so my comment wasn't sarcastic. But I understand others like to make permanent bases, so how bout making nebula clouds that restrict scanning but are devoid of resources. Players can choose to build bases in these clouds or not. Planets are about 2000km apart on average. That's plenty of space to implement these clouds.

While Rust's pvp style has tired a lot of people out with the whole offline raiding, toxic environment stuff, etc., I do think SE can make a multiplayer fun for all. Also, lets not forget about safe zones and the possibility of public cities/stations.

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Wouldnt a better way than having a Radar or something would be more customization of the worlds you can generate . I read somewhere the other day of a server removing all the roids and having a beacon roid field where players had to mine to get resources .

Something like this would create a risk v reward and also keep people asleep somewhat safe as they are

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I would love to see a vanilla mode that allowed asteroids to be limited to a narrow ring around planets. And also have a game setting slider for the amount of asteroids dispersed along this ring. Also for this mode, planets would have vastly limited ore veins instead of being bunched up the way they are now. Someone mentioned earlier that the veins could be biome restricted too, which is a good idea.

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Copy pasting my comment from a similar idea submission:

One way I imagine this could be done is to base the detection on grid size. (not weight). The bigger the size of the grid, the higher the chances of detection. This would come in the form of a radar block.


There's already a feature in the Admin tools that lets you find the biggest grids right? So why not base it on that.


  • The smallest ships (small and large grid) like the atmospheric lander can only be detected starting at around 1-2 km and going up from there. This means new players are less likely to be discovered.


  • Detection range can be affected by altitude. Max could be around 15-20 km on planets (less on moons) and up to a 40-50 km radius in space. Or something like this.
  • Detection can also be more effective in space. (Like 10 km detection range for small ships/stations)


  • Radar blocks can detect if they are being scanned by other radar blocks in range. This is another way to balance this feature as players would think twice about scanning areas too often as they could be detected themselves. Can be a passive feature of the block.


  • Building underground (behind voxels) makes you invisible.
    Please note I have no coding or game development experience and I won't pretend to have any.
    It's ok if this doesn't get implemented though. Much love and respect for the developers at KSH.
    But please, please, try.. lol cheers!

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I want to find other players to interact with them. Trade resources with them. But not grief them when they're offline.

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Hello, unfortunatelly there is no plan for radar to SE1. We leave all options to server admins now, we have added safe zones which increases usable possibilities.

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Thanks for the response here Petr. Playing with the new test servers, I think the asteroid clusters might help "finding" people a lot easier too. I seriously accidentally shot up two different people while mining a cluster last night. I had to finally just turn on a beacon with a warning of "active guns over here, please announce if you are going to approach" broadcast to keep them from creating accidental enemies :-D

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Maybe some sort of wormhole that can teleport you to a random encounter (player grid). You can disable this feature and weither or not you want the consequences to remain or not. If not then you won't be rewarded from the scrap left behind. If you lose youll engineer will wake in whatever entered the wormhole as if he dreamed it up. If the defender loses then there may be an escape worm hole so the defender can run at anytime. If defender escapes they too can wake up in their med bay as if nothing happened. Depending on what enters the hole it will match up to some random gird similar in size or equipment. A grid that is willing to defend and allow attacks or a grid that seeks to find random worm holes for attacks will require some sort of block as a sort of lore behind the worms holes "without this block you wouldn't be able to travel through wormholes safely, severe damage can occur inside one due to rabdom derby, lack of oxygen, etc. WARNING: THIS BLOCK IS KNOW TO CAUSE HALLUCINATIONS OF PASSED TRAMA."

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I've discussed this with others and my suggestions here are:

1: Trade stations - a single place where players have to go eventually to get rare materials or trade. I made the Frontier Economy mod for this very purpose. Make multiple stations and you have trade routes to pirate..

2: An "investigate unknown signal" type of system that randomly directs players to nearby abandoned ships or stations from players that have not logged in for several months, in addition to the usual "player skin" unknown signals - i wanted to make a mission system in economy something like this as one of the "random missions" (however ive not been able to work out how to do this just yet)

3: Jump drive malfunctions could conveniently throw you out near other players perhaps..


Beyond that I cant see any safe ways to do this other than adding addictional plot elements or roleplay structures to the game. (eg the need to be near another player to complete missions or something - eg strong signals might need players to press two buttons to get the bonus etc)

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I think that some intelligent design of the text communication in a vanilla server not just being global and requiring antennas and the like i s how this should work. All in game mechanics and you could 'Hail' as you'd expect when you do find someone. I doubt they'll do anything with that.

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I really liked the voip and "local" chat, but when you think about the fact that right now, an average server has less than 50 active players most of the time, global chat gives the server a little bit more feeling of life.

I do like the hail / faction / antenna only idea though. Then someone could be responsible for setting up relay stations along space -- and that person could share their relay stations with others if they wanted to, and then they'd be like an outerspace phone service provider.

Cool ideas though. That is what this board is for -- for us to raise up our requests to Keen and to share our crazy ideas in a collected way. It doesn't mean that Keen will (or can) build all the things we ask for, but I personally really like being able to brainstorm with everyone on the forum. Don't lose hope man!

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The idea of shared relay stations is really cool. Allowing for multiple channels/factions to transmit through it.

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Boromir you can do this fairly easily i think. Have each of the factions own an (laser) antenna on a grid in a safe zone. This should allow for chat, no?

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Normally view distance on servers cuts off at a few km and thus you only can see another ship/station a close proximity. Maybe just add a small flickering light/ light sprite for distant grids within 25-50km of player but still outside of the player view/render distance. This could also be disabled for grids on a planet, or only apply to unpowered grids.

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@tim hagen While that's true, I was thinking more of a relay device as a new block. Such a device could be configured to be shared with certain factions and configured to relay to certain receiving devices. Most likely not laser but Electromagnetic. I think you could do what your talking about but you'd need a lot of Laser Antennas at the relay station. Whereas what I'm considering is a single antenna block. KSH could probably just upgrade the capability of the existing antenna block to support a relay mode where you could join into it at a receiving antenna if your antenna was a member of the configured factions.

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if you do this then plz add a stealth field thing because I don't want people to find me if I don't want to be found.

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Feature added! You will be found. Good work Keen! Happy trolling...

https://support.keenswh.com/spaceengineers/general/topic/v1-189-spawn-near-players-system

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this is a feature that has been needed for a VERY long time, the way it should be implemented though is similar to the way that the archaeology skill works in WOW, where you press a button (pressing this button could drain a ton of power out of batteries for instance similar to how a jump drive consumes power), when you press this button it then gives you a flat number representing what we'll call "heat" and the value of the heat is something you could see on a three dimensional heat map of all the grids in the space, where lots of grids in a single area would cause lots of heat and slowly dissipate with distance but never reach 0

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As it stands RIght now there is a way to find other players while they are online, The Strong Signals for loot drops will randomly spawn near other players that are actively online. You can use these to get an Idea of where someone is at (general Location), save the gps location and try to search for them.


In all honesty if you give players a tool to find grids without an active player it will make it much easier to grief players that are not online.